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A Paragraph from McCullough's Biography of Harry Truman
1992 | David McCullough

Posted on 07/20/2011 12:15:18 PM PDT by ml/nj

Stalin's indifference made a profound impression on Marshall. The Soviets, it seemed, were quite content t see uncertainty and chaos prevail in Europe. It served their purposes to let matters drift. Particularly, they had no wish for a return of order and stability in Germany, let alone a revived prosperity there. Marshall had thought the Russians could be negotiated with, but at Moscow he decided he had been mistaken.


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: marshall; obama; truman
Marshall is General George Marshall, then (in 1947) Secretary of State. This paragraph appears on page 561 of the paperback edition.

I assume it will be obvious to all why this paragraph struck me as it did.

ML/NJ

1 posted on 07/20/2011 12:15:21 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: ml/nj

Make them desperate enough to wish for any savior— then be the savior.


2 posted on 07/20/2011 12:20:17 PM PDT by agooga (Struggling every day to be worthy of their sacrifice.)
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To: ml/nj

“Uncle Joe” had had his way in dealing with Roosevelt and Truman, why would Marshall think he could get somewhere?


3 posted on 07/20/2011 12:26:51 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: ml/nj

Obama’s indifference made a profound impression on Republicans. The Democrats it seemed, were quite content to see uncertainty and chaos prevail in the United States. It served their purposes to let matters drift. Particularly, they had no wish for a return of order and stability in America, let alone a revived prosperity there. Republicans had thought Obama could be negotiated with, but at the White House they decided they had been mistaken.


4 posted on 07/20/2011 12:28:51 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, border)
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To: colorado tanker
Marshall probably (and rightly) considered himself smarter than either FDR or Truman. Perhaps he felt he could achieve what they could not. However, it sounds like Marshall was also smart enough to eventually realize that this was not so.

One problem with Obama is that he thinks he is smarter than everyone else and that he can do anything -- and despite mounds of evidence to the contrary, he remains unshakeable in these beliefs.

5 posted on 07/20/2011 12:30:59 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The USSR spent itself into bankruptcy and collapsed -- and aren't we on the same path now?)
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To: ml/nj

Patton realized this immediately and knew it was the signing of a death warrant for millions of people to make any deal with the Devil (Stalin).

He was not shy about voicing his opinions and he was shut up by our leaders. He was on the way to alert the American people to the Truth (by going directly to Congress) and, of course, there were several assassination attempts on his life (can’t have Truth in America under Marxism)—the car “accident” didn’t succeed in killing him and after his bags were packed to return to America he was dead (with no autopsy).

Patton was probably killed (Target Patton) and later demonized by the Marxist MSM because he was much more presidential material than Ike and MUCH MORE popular with the masses and his theories had to be demonized by association. (Can’t have Communism look evil!!!!!!!! in MSM).

Agitprop continued—just like on McCarthy (Blacklisted by History)—the infiltration of the Marxists in the Media and government controlled the “thinking and perceptions” with their lies and cover ups in the press of the atrocities of the atheist Russians which made Patton despise the Russians more than the Germans. Marxists in America determined policies with Tito and Mao that devastated the lives of millions.

It is why Churchill was dumped and disregarded at Yalta, after he had been so instrumental in the saving of England—Of course, for Marxist’s ends, but that is another story that only Thatcher was able to contain for just a little while.


6 posted on 07/20/2011 12:32:51 PM PDT by savagesusie (Virtue is a habit of the mind, consistent with nature and moderation and reason. Cicero)
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To: ClearCase_guy
One problem with Obama is that he thinks he is smarter than everyone else and that he can do anything -- and despite mounds of evidence to the contrary, he remains unshakable in these beliefs.

Unfortunately, you are spot on.

I have never thought he was very smart, just based on what he says. And I've never thought he was a particularly good speaker, either. More and more people seem to be realizing it.

7 posted on 07/20/2011 12:37:45 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: ClearCase_guy

The problem with zero is he is a Marxist who believes in moral relativism—that there is no God—they are gods and decide right and wrong by their standards—not Universal Truths determined by our Creator—Just Law (Cicero/Locke/Blackstone).

This arbitrary law cr*p—positing “unjust law” (not ‘right reason aligned with Natural Law’) is what is killing the intent and meaning of our Constitution and destroying our Natural Rights (Natural Law Theory) which come from God’s standard of right and wrong—not Marx’s.

Everything that leaks from that mind of sewage is unconstitutional and antithetical to the Rule of Law. He’s an ideologue—with a philosophy of Marxism which made it impossible for him to take the “oath” of office in good faith.

He is a fraud and liar and should be impeached by all legal standards—that is US standards, not Russia’s.


8 posted on 07/20/2011 12:43:01 PM PDT by savagesusie (Virtue is a habit of the mind, consistent with nature and moderation and reason. Cicero)
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To: colorado tanker
A lot of people who are below average consider themselves to be well above average. They fool themselves. I've seen such people overflow with confidence and enter an environment with an attitude of "I'm such hot stuff, I am going to blow you away and accomplish amazing things!" and actually pull it off -- for a time.

I think Obama did this to America. People believed he was smart because he acted like he was smart. It really is a case of The Emperor Has No Clothes.

And you can't recover from that.

9 posted on 07/20/2011 12:44:27 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The USSR spent itself into bankruptcy and collapsed -- and aren't we on the same path now?)
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To: ealgeone
Exactly how I saw this paragraph!

ML/NJ

10 posted on 07/20/2011 12:57:25 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: ml/nj

“The Soviets, it seemed, were quite content t see uncertainty and chaos prevail in Europe. It served their purposes to let matters drift. Particularly, they had no wish for a return of order and stability in Germany, let alone a revived prosperity there.”

Boy, do THESE people sound familiar...!


11 posted on 07/20/2011 1:02:06 PM PDT by TalBlack ( Evil doesn't have a day job.)
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To: savagesusie

What were the assassination attempts on Patton.

There is little or no evidence that the accident which led to his death was anything but an accident.


12 posted on 07/20/2011 1:22:56 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: arrogantsob

My sources: The biography “Patton” and consensus of all historians (not Russian) who stated that if the Allied Commanders would have listened to Patton, WWII would have ended at least a year earlier and saved hundreds of thousands of Allied troops. The Commanders thwarted Patton intentionally (gas for tanks) to make him unsuccessful because of his brilliance and popularity in the US.

Ike was terrified of his popularity because of his own political ambitions...yet, even though Patton always had stated that he never wanted to run for office, the egos of the Allied Commanders envied and hated Patton because he was brilliant and so much wiser and smarter than them.

The book, “Target: Patton” and, of course, other sources in many other books and on the internet, and the visiting of museums in Luxembourg, and the hit lists of Stalin and “allies” have convinced me that assasination is much more plausible than “accident”. The review on the following book on Amazon explains the “proof” much better than I can.

Nothing happens by accident in politics....wisdom of FDR.

http://www.amazon.com/Target-Patton-Assassinate-General-George/product-reviews/1596985798


13 posted on 07/20/2011 1:41:16 PM PDT by savagesusie (Virtue is a habit of the mind, consistent with nature and moderation and reason. Cicero)
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To: arrogantsob

OMG.....you should read all the reviews on the Target:Patten list-—one written by a soldier’s son....wow....what incriminating evidence against the evil means of Ike and Montgomery.

Politicians are a slimy group......Patton wanted no part in politics, but he resigned rather than retired from the military, so he wasn’t “shut up”. Ha—what a genius...he was independently wealthy and couldn’t be controlled by the puppetmasters...the elite mover (bankers/Marxists) and shakers of the world....He was one of those men of principles....who end up being assassinated or put on a shelf and marginalized, like the great Churchill’s bust in the White House.

Can’t EVER allow the idea that Communism is VILE and UGLY.....NO...people who think like that and are brilliant and popular will end up like McCarthy and Patton and Churchill..got to shut them up and destroy their power over the perceptions of the little people. Just more MSM/Marxist control of information that so dominated the entire globe....not just Goebbels Germany——that is part of the Big Lie—the idea of “free press” in the US. Never had it until the internet.


14 posted on 07/20/2011 2:04:00 PM PDT by savagesusie (Virtue is a habit of the mind, consistent with nature and moderation and reason. Cicero)
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To: savagesusie
So you have no evidence that Patton was murdered as I suspect.

Ike and Monty were Commie sympathizers? Riiight of course they were and they consorted with aliens from another dimension too. What a load of crap. Patton was a great soldier but his idea of attacking the USSR would have been considered insane by the VAST majority of Americans who were tired of war and wanted it over. He would not have gotten 25% of the vote had he run for president.

15 posted on 07/20/2011 10:32:41 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: savagesusie

Nonsense and false to boot. No one ignored Patton and there was NO way the war could have been ended a year earlier. Stalin was screaming at the allies because the invasion did not occur earlier. Yet, the generals supposedly commie were the ones saying it could not be done earlier. You can’t have it both ways.

Bradley was not willing to take the chance of Patton getting too far ahead of everyone else and not for far in the future political considerations.

Patton fought a blitzkrieg style of war and the danger with that is out running your supply lines and having them overrun by the enemies. There was not enough petrol for quite a long time while the allies were rebuilding the ports the Nazis destroyed. They had to lay a pipeline under the English Channel to get the oil over. And storms made that difficult and disrupted it more than once.

Of course, everyone knows that the commies regularly assassinate their enemies by having a truck driven by an American GI crash into their cars to break their necks. What a load.

The last thing Ike was thinking of in 1945 was running for president. He was not concerned about any such thing merely eliminating the Nazis. From everything I can see about this is that it was indeed an accident. God was just as likely to have removed him because his work was done as because of any nefarious plot.

Historians do not believe anything you said about this being anything but an accident.

You won’t find anyone who loves a good conspiracy more than I do either.


16 posted on 07/20/2011 10:47:29 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: arrogantsob

No evidence? The vehicle exhibited by the government as the one he died in? The missing reports? No autopsy of such an important person? The Soviet assassination hit list? His words telling his family he doesn’t think he will make it home? The plane he was in which was shot down and he miraculously survived? The lies and innuendos about his actions which were repeated by the Allied leaders? The bullets that barely missed him? The deliberate thwarting of Patton’s offensives—so his victories would be less so and kill thousands of more men? All credible historians who said that Patton’s ideas were far superior to Montgomery’s and Ike’s and would have ended the war over a year earlier and saved hundreds of thousands of men. Right.

Believe your history books—the ones written by the Marxists who also told us McCarthy was wrong (Big Lie—Blacklisted by History) The press told us there was NO Communist infiltration of the press—Hiss was no Communist—Rosenbergs were NOT communists—Yep, no Goebbel distortion and lies to destroy people who thought Communism was (horror) EVIL. No Walter Concrites, no Dan Rathers—we got the “truth” from the government and particularly the press.

Am I condemning our Allied Commanders? No, not really, but I am condemning them for extreme jealousy of genius and stupidity and I wouldn’t put it past them to order the death of someone outspoken and brash as Patton who “threatened” to bring the truth to the American people. They demoted him after all, slapped him in public continuously, and constantly sanctioned him for the delight of our “press” and Hollywood communist producers and the detriment to millions of lives destroyed, killed, that if Patton would have been “listened to” would not have happened.

But then he was outspoken and they were proud men and FDR loved Uncle Joe, and yes, particularly Ike, had political ambitions and “image” was everything (truth never matters as history is proving—The Big Lie and the masses—all about what they “think” is the truth—agitprop has worked since the 20’s).

Ike realized how extremely dangerous he was to their mass “perception”. If you haven’t figured out how deadly politics is—yes, it is a game—but it is a DEADLY one. Why do you think so many politicians are quiet today against an outright communist in the office of presidency? Why do every single one of them have body guards? Why do people who criticize the president like Beck fear for their life and spend millions on body guards for all their family.
Why should Murdoch be very frightened.

This has been going on for centuries. Read Machiavelli or even Sir Acton’s quote. Do you not understand the evil of political power?????????

But anyhow— I think the Soviets probably beat our Allies to it. The Communists were always sneakier....look at Yalta and the millions Stalin got to massacre and tell THEM their families and the hundreds of millions of people who were enslaved, that Patton was wrong. The Russians were far too weak at the end of the war—it would have been simple. WWII devastated them and their army—Yes, the truth and principles mattered. It is why Churchill was snubbed by FDR at Yalta. EVIL POLITICS!

Both Patton and MacArthur were right—two of our greatest military geniuses were shut up and who had a hand in it? (http://reformed-theology.org/html/issue05/acheson.htm) Secretary of State Dean Acheson.

The world would be a much better place had they listened to the greatest generals and not communists, yet. if we had listened to them and destroyed China and Russia and that deadly Communist ideology which only enslaves and kills we wouldn’t be here today. Now look at the Communists and the power they have amassed and there creation of their new world order.

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol47no1/article02.html


17 posted on 07/21/2011 9:53:04 AM PDT by savagesusie (Virtue is a habit of the mind, consistent with nature and moderation and reason. Cicero)
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To: savagesusie
People die in freakish accidents on a regular basis even great generals.

If anything the Soviets would have wanted him to kill as many Germans as he could since they had been demanding just such a policy from the beginning of the war. You cannot have it both ways. Anything that hastened the Nazi collapse would have helped Stalin.

“The vehicle exhibited by the government as the one he died in?” Huh?

“The missing reports?” Huh? How do you know what was in them, they are missing.

“No autopsy of such an important person?” Seems to be unnecessary since he died from the effects of the paralysis caused by the accident, a pulmonary embolism.

It is not strange that Patton died what is strange is that he lived so long. He was constantly at the front and his men were always amazed to find him ahead of them in fast moving battles. They could not figure out how he got ahead of them time after time.

“The Soviet assassination hit list?” Everyone should fear the deadly US Army truck driven by an American Sergeant, a killer of thousands.

“The plane he was in which was shot down and he miraculously survived?” Planes are shot down in wars.

“The bullets that barely missed him?” Bullets are fired at people, even great generals, in wars.

“The lies and innuendos about his actions which were repeated by the Allied leaders?” Is this different than the lies and innuendos told about Ike such as the one that he was a commie?

“The deliberate thwarting of Patton’s offensives—so his victories would be less so and kill thousands of more men?” Stalin would not have liked that so his puppets in the Allied military would have earned his condemnation for not giving George his head. In reality military leaders have different ideas all the time over how to proceed in a war.

“All credible historians who said that Patton’s ideas were far superior to Montgomery’s and Ike’s and would have ended the war over a year earlier and saved hundreds of thousands of men” Fringe and cranks are not “credible” they are incredible.

The rest of your farrago is nothing more than a few half truths blown up into a paranoid mess.

18 posted on 07/21/2011 10:48:24 AM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: arrogantsob

Oh, but you ignore the largest condemnation and proof of all-—WHO were giving FDR and Truman the information (lies) and “suggesting” their moves for the Allies and the Yalta agreements and aid to Mao.... and directing all the policies??????

McCarthy has been vindicated, and he too, was assassinated, by the press, though—(as all anti-Communists). It is all about public perception—that Goebbel’s control of MSM and written “history”....I see you have drank the koolaide

Skepticism is a must with all politics....nothing in politics is an accident—FDR


19 posted on 07/21/2011 11:00:23 AM PDT by savagesusie (Virtue is a habit of the mind, consistent with nature and moderation and reason. Cicero)
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To: arrogantsob

You obviously have not read the biography, “Patton: A Genius of War”. I highly recommend it.

Please do so and then get back to me.


20 posted on 07/21/2011 11:06:57 AM PDT by savagesusie (Virtue is a habit of the mind, consistent with nature and moderation and reason. Cicero)
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To: colorado tanker

America was a tool for the Russians—We were used and set up....like in everything before and after WWII. Obama is the culmination of their plans......long term.........just like the Chinese......—http://reformed-theology.org/html/issue05/acheson.htm


21 posted on 07/21/2011 11:11:48 AM PDT by savagesusie (Virtue is a habit of the mind, consistent with nature and moderation and reason. Cicero)
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To: savagesusie

“Oh, but you ignore the largest condemnation and proof of all-—WHO were giving FDR and Truman the information (lies) and “suggesting” their moves for the Allies and the Yalta agreements and aid to Mao.... and directing all the policies??????” Unfortunately that has nothing to do with your theory about Patton being assassinated by truck.

McCarthy has nothing to do with this either. Tailgunner Joe would have better helped his case by not being so erratic and so much a drunk.

It is also not a good idea to base your thought upon cranks, crackpots and goofs. I don’t mind reading a few of them but apparently you do not apply your analytical skills to their statements and beliefs. If you looked at their claims with the same judicious skepticism you probably do apply to a democrat you would see through most of them.


22 posted on 07/21/2011 2:40:33 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: savagesusie

I have an unread biography and have read a couple as it is. Since my earliest days as a reader I have devoured biographies.

Patton was a very atypical American in that he loved war but did not seem to grasp that we did not have a dictatorial political system which would allow a 180 degree turn from being an ally of the Soviets to attacking them. It was an impossibility whatever one thinks of its advisability.

There is no question that he was a brilliant military leader but from all I can see his death was like that of another brilliant military man, Stonewall Jackson, a dumb accident.

There appears to have been no reasonable way to have coordinated the collision itself. And the subsequent death could have been engineered, presumably, at the hands of the doctors but these were all military doctors and the cause of death was consistent with the difficulties paralysis causes.

He also believed in reincarnation when most Americans did not. It is an eery thought that he may have incarnated specifically to play a role in this war and when that was accomplished the incarnation was over. Had there not been a trivial automobile accident would it have been a sting from a wasp, or a flower pot falling on his head? Like a balloon burst by a pin prick his life was ended.


23 posted on 07/21/2011 3:09:38 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: arrogantsob

You are living in the Marxist matrix. You think what they want you to—they were the writers of the books you have been reading. John Dewey was a socialist and controlled curriculum starting in the 30’s. Marxists wrote the biographies—a lot of them. They twisted history. Not that I listen to Beck but I did watch his Founding Father’s series. All twisted history since the 30’s....you can trace it....it is easy. That is my point—all agitprop—all MSM is to control how and what you think....it is scary how people can’t see through the “fog” They were conditioned for decades on America’s “free press” etc....a ruse. Patton knew Truman and FDR were dead wrong—but they had Communists feeding them misinformation. It is in the VENONA papers—McCarthy was absolutely correct on the accusations he was forced to make by the commie heads of the committees to destroy him. (Blacklisted by History)

It is all about perception—making people believe that the people like Churchill, Patton, MacArthur, Nixon, Chambers, McCarthy, Reagan are idiots, stupid, and they market any flaws or innuendoes (ALL PEOPLE HAVE THEM but the press (if you haven’t noticed) ignore the flaws of those who PUSH their agenda—and they have had one for 100 years......There are few brilliant statesmen in the history of the world and the few we had in the last century were destroyed by “public opinion” first.....anyone who goes off the reservation.....They are destroyed. If they can’t be shut up and controlled they are killed. Marxists know it takes only one principled courageous person to change the direction of the world (MLK, Ghandi, Churchill, Lincoln, RFK, Reagan) Notice what happens to those few brave people???? Why are most CEO’s quiet? They are scared. Why are most politicians going along with the program-—they will be destroyed in the press....all you need is one flaw—migraines, drinking, whatever—they will destroy you with it....they have been spying and have the goods on everyone since the 40’s.

You don’t see the pattern??????? It is as clear as the my water. You still didn’t mention who was controlling FDR and Truman’s policies and decisions —the puppetmasters—the same ones who are telling zero what to say....they were there in the State Dept. of FDR. It is all there—Witness is another good book. All the KGB defectors in the 70’s.

They were demeaned, destroyed —yes, McCarthy drank himself to death—but think about it....you are a WWII hero, RFK idolizes you and names you the godfather of his children..... You see all Hoovers documents on all the infiltrations in all branches of the government and the press. It is unbelievable and the American people know nothing about the Communists, writing their then the press starts the attacks-—ruthless ugly lies.....the head of the Committees set you up to look “evil” then their agents in the press, repeat the big lies and misperceptions...over and over and over....even your friends don’t believe you—they think your insane—and hateful....they believe all the Alinsky-type accusations....for yes, McCarthy had flaws (like everyone) but he was courageous and not afraid of the Commies....he knew the infiltration was vast because of all the defectors in the 40’s but Chambers knew how bad it was and that the Truth was being subverted—Truth was losing....and this was in the early 50’s when Chambers said the Communists were winning and it would be a miracle if America survives. He didn’t mean immediately—it would take decades...and they were absolutely right.


24 posted on 07/21/2011 6:14:29 PM PDT by savagesusie (Virtue is a habit of the mind, consistent with nature and moderation and reason. Cicero)
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To: savagesusie

There were very few “Marxists” writing history books or any other in the US actually until late in the 20th century. A lot of Leftists but not Marxist. Eugene Genovese was the only true Marxist of note. Howard Fast wrote fiction and there were a few screenwriters. Marxism has had little direct influence on our politics or culture.

The drive for power is not limited to Marxists, actually what we are seeing is more nihilism than Marxism. The only thing the ruling elite seems to value is power. If it can use Marxism it will. If it must fight Marxism it will.

Surely you are not gullible enough to think that any rational human now is striving for the Dictatorship of the Proletariat or the victory of the working class?

Marx believed the state would wither away not become all powerful. Apparently you don’t know much about Marxism and likely have read little of his works but take these wild hyperbolas by KNow Nothings as having more meaning than their hot air would justify.

Patton was in no way destroyed by “public opinion”. MacArthur self destructed as well by going outside his role as a General. We do not live in a Roman Empire where regional generals often ran the whole show. He forgot that.

Another example of your ignorance of real Marxist thought is the idea that it accepts the Great Man in History theory. It does NOT but claims the class struggle is what changes history. Classes shaped by gigantic economic forces, production relations, which are far beyond individuals not insignificant, soulless individuals.

Communism has in fact LOST. Its home, the USSR, is destroyed. Capitalism has replaced communism all over Eastern Europe to such an extent that many of those nations are giving the US military cooperation. China is becoming more and more capitalistic day by day. Within the next decade or so it may drop the fig leaf.

This is what is particularly frustrating - seeing the US turn left as the rest of the world turns right.

I am not an enemy of McCarthy but he had to know that his vices would undermine those things he was trying to publicize and make it easy to destroy him. With that kind of crusade one must have his facts down cold and be ready to present them with iron discipline.


25 posted on 07/21/2011 11:01:05 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: arrogantsob
Communism has in fact LOST. Its home, the USSR, is destroyed. Capitalism has replaced communism all over Eastern Europe to such an extent that many of those nations are giving the US military cooperation. China is becoming more and more capitalistic day by day. Within the next decade or so it may drop the fig leaf.

In Russia, China, South Korea, and now America, what we are seeing is less like capitalism and more like crony capitalism (previously known as the economic policies of facism). "An inherent aspect of fascist economies was economic dirigisme,meaning an economy where the government exerts strong directive influence, and effectively controls production and allocation of resources. In general, apart from the nationalizations of some industries, fascist economies were based on private property and private initiative, but these were contingent upon service to the state."

26 posted on 07/21/2011 11:07:31 PM PDT by Lazamataz (If you pet a tiny goose, you will feel a little down.)
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To: arrogantsob

No, you are absolutely wrong on that...that is why your whole premise is faulty. Read the most brilliant book written in the 20th century....The Closing of the American Mind. I did and my understanding of this world and what is going on did a 180 degree turn.

I was like you....I believed that most people are decent human beings and want the truth—they would NEVER try to censure and make people believe outright lies—destroy the intellectual development of children with cognitive dissonance—make children dumb (useful) idiots on purpose. (There is so much proof that the curricula is designed to destroy the intelligence of children it makes me sick—intentional—and with that I understand the EVIL of these ideas.) Read just the beginning of Witness by Chambers.....he is really describing the Atheism—the godlessness—the fear of an ideology where “The End justifies the Means”. It is UGLY and antithetical to America where rights come from God. But that is it—destroy those rights.

I don’t know if Patton was assassinated—but (I read Patton and much more) and I think it is reasonable to think he was eliminated. He was a danger to the puppetmasters who had control of the worldview—Communism is good.
He not only understood the lie—he knew HOW evil it REALLY was—not some dear old philosophy of Uncle Joe. It reduces man to an animal, just like the Nazi’s did but Patton saw remnants of Christianity in the German people so didn’t revile them nearly as much. Patton was VERY clear on his intentions to clear up the “thinking” of Americans about just what ugliness Communism was—Patton would have killed them with his speeches in Congress and his speaking tours. In no uncertain terms, people would not still think that Communism was that philosophy that “meant” well but was misguided.

Parents don’t understand the world they are living in—the Marxist Matrix is my take—that vile sick philosophy of the Postmoderns—moral relativism. Children’s ability to reason and use logic has been targeted since Dewey. I could direct you to a dozen well-documented books that give the names of the actual Communists who designed the curricula using BF Skinner. It is all about conditioning to certain ideas. Study Cultural Marxism and the sick ugly mind of Marcuse.

Why—to kill God so man can be god and control you. The encroaching Atheism is a result of worldview—and since the God-filled curricula of McGuffey Readers was thrown out—moral relativism was inserted in its place. You can not believe in God if you are taught MR as a child—easy as that. Get the minds of the children and you own the future (Lenin).

It is God vs. man —Chambers said it in his book. He knew the Communists plans—they are long term. He said in 54 that the Communists were winning (the world of ideas). (Why would he think that?????) Moral relativism was becoming the New America—not Moral Absolutes.

WF Buckley wrote about it in 1951—why are all my textbooks forcing the atheist paradigm at a Christian school and why are they pushing collectivist economics—by the sodomite, collectivist, socialist John Maynard Keynes. (They never stopped). By 1950 all text books were completed written by Marxists in our public schools. Values Clarification, Situational Ethics, etc. all to deliberately destroy moral absolutes (Bloom’s book above documents this.)

So does Eakman’s book on education. So does the Long March (through the institutions).

You are right about Power. It is Postmodernism (which includes Marxism) which says “Might makes Right”—that “feel good, do it” (Marcuse) and that emotion is real—God is not. There is no God.

Christianity understands the evil of power—why the Sir Acton quote—”Power tends to corrupt; Absolute power corrupts absolutely.” Christian ideals fight that natural urge of man to control other people. If you raised children you understand this about the nature of man—that need to manipulate and control is obvious in every two year old.

Lenin with friend knew the power of controlling how and what people thought by the complete control of information. In 1920. Control of ideas (overt suppression of truth) has been going on ever since—not that the Church doesn’t try to control the truth—history of the world, sir.

Now, it is not God-fearing people who control the ideas....Nietzsche recognized it in the 18th Century===YOU KILLED GOD! Why was he so upset????? with the ignorant Postmodern philosophers.....They killed off the only value system of man—God’s.—and without one they are just nothing but animals—and they will act like animals then. He predicted Stalin, Mao Lenin, Hitler—all the atheists/occultists/men who replace the god that is missing in man.

Postmodern ideas took over the Continent first—then England and by the 1930’s was totally infiltrated and targeted-—key word—targeted (all institutions, Foundations, schools, media, books)

Bloom explains this “paradigm shift” of thinking-—from Moral Absolutes to Moral Relativism. It is quite easy to see the evil by the censuring and promoting done by Rockefeller, Carnigie Foundations that paid for the books written and with the publishing houses decided what and what could not be published.

WF Buckley, Jr had to go “outside” the system to get his book published and that was in 1950. Listen to the producer’s son sometime—that one who made “Mr. Smith Goes to Washington”. The movie never would have seen the light of day had popular opinion not prevailed. But before it was released is the real story. People weren’t conditioned thoroughly by the 1950’s to kill that ingrained belief in a God, yet...their parents had complete control of their worldview when they were babies—no TV.
The fifties, media, schools all injected Freud, Kinsey, Marx, Hefner into everything-—very subtle at first—there would have been outrage-—they hired psychologists to design the media and with it perceptions of the world—but Marx’s perceptions—not people of God.

It is all about worldview—that nasty filthy Postmodern German Philosophy whose sewage flowed from the Rhine and infected the world.

Germany was hardest hit with Postmodernism—that is where the Frankfurt school and the ‘God Killers’ collected. The ideas came to Columbia U in 1880’s and spread like filth in a river. The ideas started in the Universities and the Foundations by 1900’s funded those ideas in books and in curricula. John Dewey had complete control of the content and design of our public schools and he was a socialist. It is all documented—the curricula is there to examine: They threw out the Universal Truths and replaced it with Marx’s truths—like white men are oppressors and (Kinsey) all men are perverts and The Beats—sodomy is good esp. with boys.

All this was corrosively taught by the 50’s—and led to the 60’s revolution. It is all about ideas—worldview and they twisted and conditioned children into “emotional” response to the world, and destroyed their intellectual ability—on purpose. So Patton’s death might have been on purpose too. He was killed before he could be heard by the American people. And he was dangerous—because he had the Truth and he was popular and respected, even though propaganda (slapping) was rampant and they were trying to destroy him in the public square as he was trying to kill the enemy....and spotted the REAL enemy.


27 posted on 07/22/2011 9:25:36 AM PDT by savagesusie (Virtue is a habit of the mind, consistent with nature and moderation and reason. Cicero)
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To: Lazamataz

That is correct. However, the basic failure of the socialist or fascist economy is the inability to properly plan because of the lack of price signals from a free market.
Some believed that as long as there was free markets someplace the socialists could limp along by aping the prices from the free market. That seems doubtful at best since the essence of socialism is political decisions about production rather than economic ones.

If the whole world goes statist then production will collapse across the board with massive starvation and poverty ensuing.


28 posted on 07/22/2011 3:28:25 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: savagesusie
“No, you are absolutely wrong on that...” What?

Once again your scattershots of half truth falls short of the target.

I have read Bloom. (He taught at my alma mater and is the subject of the novel “Ravelstein” by Saul Bellow.) Excellent book which in no way disputes anything I have said. In fact, Bloom points out that the problem is far deeper than Marxism, a mere political ideology.

“I was like you....I believed that most people are decent human beings and want the truth” WTH are you talking about? I believe most people are near idiots.

“I don’t know if Patton was assassinated” Then why are you giving me hell for saying exactly that? And why do you go back to claiming he was at the end of your latest screed?

We were taught as kids that Communism not only was not good but it was the source of most evil. That is one of the reasons that commies cannot bring forth their ideas while admitting that they are commies even to this day.

You need to actually read the people you attack to have any credibility and to avoid the mistakes you labor under. Nietzsche lived in the 19th century not the 18th and he was all in favor of killing God because he was violently anti-Christian and considered it a “slave morality” which prevented man from achieving his full potential as human.

He saw the coming age of nihilism as the RESULT of Christianity as was Marxism. He in no way was “upset” that God was Dead but applauded the death precisely because he wanted a “Transformation of All Values”. He wanted to go “Beyond Good and Evil” and create a new earth-centered morality. Read the “AntiChrist” should you doubt this. He proposed the “Will to Power” as the source of all human virtue and progress and despised the idea of Christian ideals subduing “the Blond Beast” - Germans.

Keynes was not a “collectivist” and would never agree to most of the policies being propagated in his name. But I doubt you have read a word of his actual writing preferring instead to rely on canned attacks with half truths as spewed by cranks and nitwits. Nor were his ideas designed to bring about socialism but to correct the failures of neo-classical economics which were failing to explain or alleviate the persistence of the Great Depression. He was not a Marxist in any sense but a neo-classical follower and student of Marshall.

It is not productive to try and throw everything but the kitchen sink at an idea. This only shows a lack of education. Especially annoying is a plethora of half-digested ideas linked to a conviction that you are right. Don't lecture me about Nietzsche or Keynes unless you really understand them.

29 posted on 07/22/2011 4:13:33 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: arrogantsob

Oh....sounds like “YOU”, the arrogant sob—your words, not mine—thinks that “YOU” have the Truth and YOU know exactly what was meant by Nietzsche and his absolute “love” for egalitarianism.

True, all post modernists had a vile hatred for Christianity but that hatred for God was one of their few agreements. It was Nietzsche that recognized their folly in not positing something in its place.

I never pretend to “know” anything except what “I” think...it is “my” philosophy which is “my” interpretation of the ideas in the world—just like your interpretation is “yours” and shaped by whomever you “think” had the best explanation of the ideas of others—which is never exact—not possible—perceptions....part of postmodernism.....It all depends what is is....

So don’t lecture me—I’ve had experiences that point me to MY truth—and it makes sense to me and so does the world. FR is a forum for the debate of ideas—everyone hopefully puts up things which they have discovered point to the truth in the world. I am always opened to well reasoned arguments and have changed my mind on numerous occasions because of new information.

Sorry if I “talked down” to such an educated person as you—but it is habit of working with children and trying to make a point that can be understood by people who have never heard of Aristotle, Aquinas, Montesquieu, John Locke, Hayek, Adam Smith, and Thomas Reid—people censored from the history books—or demeaned and degraded. BTW, Buckley’s book, “God and Man at Yale” used the word “collectivist” to describe Keynesian economics in 1951. I trust his view—and admit my bias for Austrian Economic sites (and the love of Aquinas) and is where “my” ideas originate—not superior to your source, I am sure.

As Bloom said—most ideas in today’s world (most books) are filtered through that Postmodernist brain. It is moral relativism. I am not a “professional”—graduate from an “elite” university—even a lesser one like yours—but you have not read Thomas Sowell or Darymple—who wax on the intellectual wisdom of those elitists who force “their” orthodoxy on the masses and have destroyed several generations of minds.

Read this guys writings-—he has the best library in town (and can read the original German!), so is probably closer to the Truth, which if you haven’t noticed, varies....because of human limitations of the brain and biases and a limited selection of the knowledge of ALL ideas.

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=42142

My point—your ideas are those created by this Age of Relativism.


30 posted on 07/23/2011 3:00:05 PM PDT by savagesusie (Virtue is a habit of the mind, consistent with nature and moderation and reason. Cicero)
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To: savagesusie

“Oh....sounds like “YOU”, the arrogant sob—your words, not mine—thinks that “YOU” have the Truth and YOU know exactly what was meant by Nietzsche and his absolute “love” for egalitarianism.” If you would reduce the level of hysteria you might be able to understand that I never claimed to know “exactly” what Nietzsche said. He is one of the most ambiguous of philosophers.

What is extremely clear is that you have NO idea what he said OR meant. He certainly was in NO way a believer in “egalitarianism” just the opposite in fact. He makes that clear in Zarasthrusra. While I am no Nietzsche scholar I have read and possess almost all of his writings. Nor was he a “post-modernist” or ever thought about them at all. His beef was with the TRADITIONAL Western thought of his day.

“Experiences” do not necessarily point one to the truth of a philosopher unless you have actually read that philosopher’s writings. Particular one whose thoughts have been badly misrepresented and taken out of context.

You have no idea what I have read so stop telling me what I haven’t read.

MY ideas have been created by “this Age of Relativism” but yours haven’t? LMAO.


31 posted on 07/24/2011 9:25:02 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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To: arrogantsob

I would disagree and say Hegel is more ambiguous—maybe because of the sloppy use of the word, Geist, among other things— mind or spirit or ghost??? and Marx’s take on him. As if word choice doesn’t affect meaning.

Since Nietzsche’s antisemitic sister had control over his works and “notes’” there is much confusion, and different translations can be all over the map...although I was told to get Kaufman’s translations—that his are the best...One of my sons was writing a paper on Martin Hiedegger and had me read it, so I got interested in philosophy....my prior interest was child psychology. At the time I purchased the complete works of Nietzsche.

I have not read all his writing —absolutely not, but some, and although I love his passion and prose, I have other books I prefer to read—like the ones by the Pope who does a really nice analysis on Nietzsche’s ideas and Christianity and Sex. I just like the Pope’s foundational thinking drenched in Natural Law Theory which is my favorite and I grew up with—in parochial schools all my life—so no, I really am reviled by moral relativism. Never fell for it.

Another of my son’s came home wearing a t-shirt (college) —the front said: Nietzsche: God is Dead. and on the back it said: God: Nietzsche is Dead.

I love great minds—even the Postmodernists to a degree. Ideas can be intriguing but not practical when applied to human beings when you deny the metaphysical nature. People are an integrated whole and you reduce them to an animal and they will act like one. Expectations are so important and so is that selflessness and sacrifice that is needed when raising small children, if there is to be a future. As a mother, I know it is the truth.


32 posted on 07/25/2011 1:26:37 PM PDT by savagesusie (Virtue is a habit of the mind, consistent with nature and moderation and reason. Cicero)
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To: savagesusie
“I would disagree and say Hegel is more ambiguous...” That may be but I have not been discussing who is/was most ambiguous. Hegel was one of those whom Nietzsche was most opposed to, one of the great systematizers in philosophy. This was one of the reasons that N. wrote in Epigrams rather than lay out a systemic approach to things. I do not pretend to have read as much of Hegel as of Nietzsche or Plato. Probably half of the philosophy I have read is Nietzsche and Plato. Outside of them I have little exposure.

Nietzsche's great mentor was Schopenhauer who taught at the same University that Hegel did. But, where Hegel's courses were packed with students, Schopenhauer’s were barely attended. The work that fired Nietzsche was “The World as Will and Idea”.

Kaufman is, indeed, the most available of the translators as well as being a major biographer of him.

Nietzsche was considered one of the masters of the German language and that talent makes him deceptively accessible.

Hopefully your son did well with his paper and course. Heidegger makes N. seem clear and obvious. He is extremely difficult to grasp. At least for me.

33 posted on 07/25/2011 2:10:52 PM PDT by arrogantsob (Why do They hate her so much?)
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34 posted on 07/25/2011 2:34:58 PM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list.)
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To: savagesusie

More Presidential material than....?

Sorry. Patton was a warrior. True, politics has elements of warfare, mostly subterfuge, deception, and the like. But he believed in utterly destroying your enemies. Crushing them before you and hearing the lamentations of their women.

Patton detested politics. Why do you think he got in so much trouble with the brass and the politicians, and Ike did so well? At the early part of his career, Ike was Patton’s subordinate. It was Ike’s political mind that propelled him beyond his mentor. Not that he didn’t learn anything from Georgie mind you.


35 posted on 07/25/2011 2:56:15 PM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: savagesusie
My sources: The biography “Patton” and consensus of all historians (not Russian) who stated that if the Allied Commanders would have listened to Patton, WWII would have ended at least a year earlier and saved hundreds of thousands of Allied troops

_______________________________________

There is nothing that could have ended the War a year earlier (May 1944 - even before a Western Front???).

Patton could have (maybe) gotten to Berlin a few weeks earlier than the Russians at best.

36 posted on 07/25/2011 3:04:01 PM PDT by wtc911 ("How you gonna get down that hill?")
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To: savagesusie
All credible historians who said that Patton’s ideas were far superior to Montgomery’s and Ike’s and would have ended the war over a year earlier and saved hundreds of thousands of men. Right.

_______________________________________________

Name a few.

And then explain how we could have ended the war without an invasion of Europe.

37 posted on 07/25/2011 3:07:19 PM PDT by wtc911 ("How you gonna get down that hill?")
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To: wtc911

I read it in the following book which I gave to my son years ago, so I no longer can refer to it. This was one of my favorite biographies that I have read—and I have read a lot.

I remember this book particularly for three reasons-—It debunked the “Patton” movie as an intentional smear and named names....2. Patton could be so incredibly kind and wrote poetry. 3. The Allied Generals used him like a political football and sidelined him for 11 mos. and more, when he was the most brilliant and talented of all generals in WWII on the battlefield, and the most feared by the Germans.

The book states of course, much more than that ....and anything the New York Times hates and belittles as revisionist....is probably the truth or as close to it as you will get.

I remember him quoting the opinions of some of the leading historians when he wrote the book who stated that the war would have ended over a year earlier and saved over a 100,000 lives....or something like that. I remember because I was horrified at the actions of Ike and Montgomery when I was reading about their actions. I had relatives on my dad’s side who fought with Patton at the Battle of the Bulge and other major battles. (I used to say—”I like Ike” to tease my father. That is why I remembered that particular quote—usually I forget a great portion of what I read.....I only have so much room in my brain and I only keep the most pertinent facts.....but that statement shocked me at the time as did Chambers book, Witness. I knew government officials were liars and infiltrators. Blacklisted by History proved there was a major conspiracy in the Media and government and Foundations to control perceptions.—— (as did The Closing of the American Mind and the Long March by Kimball which has led me to research the controlling of information—or should I say MISinformation...

http://www.amazon.com/Patton-Genius-War-Carlo-Deste/dp/product-description/0060927623/ref=dp_proddesc_0?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books


38 posted on 07/25/2011 7:06:36 PM PDT by savagesusie (Virtue is a habit of the mind, consistent with nature and moderation and reason. Cicero)
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