Posted on 07/24/2011 6:54:25 AM PDT by AnalogReigns
I just received an email from World Net Daily advertising some books. Not unusual, as I'm on their list, and they send ads all the time. What is strange though, is the fact that all the books in this ad are religious AND take the oddball "7th-day Sabbath" position--definitely a very minority position among conservative evangelicals, and Christians of all stripes.
The ad also hints at some dark conspiracy amidst conventional Christians, accusing us of not reading the bible carefully.
Some evangelical apologists too categorize Adventism (which started with those who firmly predicted Jesus to come again in the 1840s) itself is at least an eccentric sect, following Old Testament and extra-biblical regulations, if not a cult, not unlike many others that got founded about that time.
Is World Net Daily now officially Adventist?
Actually, God did teach them which day was the Seventh-day. When the people went out to collect manna, they could only collect enough to meet their daily needs, because the stuff could only last a day and then would rot.
However, they were commanded to collect twice as much on the sixth day and nothing was provided on the seventh day, but the manna would keep.
When they went out to get firewood, they were commanded to not get any on the seventh day. Any that tried were struck dead.
Unless you’re willfully ignoring those two examples, God was quite clear as to which day He thought the seventh should fall upon.
God wasn’t clear about the day. He was clear about the number of days. You have to assume the Jews got it right throughout all of history. But you really have no idea. Your faith in the matter is on the Jews, not God.
I think that is one of the reasons the Commandments went into the ark. Our best efforts and our most sincere promises are frail, at best.
Don’t misunderstand me on one point. Let me be as clear as I can be. We are not saved by keeping the commandments. God has given us the gift of being able to come to Him unlimited number of times and ask for forgiveness, with the confidence that we will be forgiven. Even when our disobedience is planned.
If that is your position, then God wasn’t clear about anything.
Feel free to do what you want, you are perfectly free to do anything your heart desires, no matter the harm that comes from it.
Jonty,
What exactly DO you do on the seventh day? (besides “church stuff”) Anything? Do you light your oven to cook dinner or reheat leftovers? That is labor. Do you do any laundry? Don’t worry, I won’t tell. Have you ever sown on a button? Ask Jesus about that one. Have you gathered firewood? (adjusted your thermostat?) That is labor as well. God forbid you have ever dragged out the vacuum cleaner on the Sabbath to clean up some broken glass. You are just silly. You remind me of a Pharisee.
They certainly will not help two little lost boys soaked to the skin looking for help in the rain!
There are Adventists who feel convicted to not use any appliances, except maybe the fridge. And there are Adventists who feel free to go to the movies.
In principle, I don’t watch tv or do anything explicit, like run to the store, but I do feel free to cook or use the internet because those resources are already accounted for and there wouldn’t be less people working because I did not use them.
One of the really good things about Christianity is that we’re all on individual journeys and what a person feels right to do, he can. I wouldn’t think of telling another person if they should keep the Sabbath or not or, if they do keep it, how it should be kept.
And that’s what it all comes down to friend. “I desire compassion rather than sacrifice.”
I see that any further communication with you is impossible. You clearly do not have any grasp of the Gospel and your understanding of the Old Testament Law is flawed at best, completely clueless at the worst.
My expectation wasn’t to change anybody’s mind here, but to explain the Adventist position and hopefully clear up any possible misunderstanding, even if we continued to disagree on the issue.
You take care, maybe we’ll talk again.
I know this is off topic but I found this very interesting:
What I deny is the Ellen G. White/Seventh Day Adventist lie that you repeated;
“The Ten Commandments existed at the time of man’s creation.”
What I detest is the way that SDA’s try to weasel around what they say by inferences, as you are doing. Either the “10 commandments” existed at the time of creation, and you can prove it by Scripture alone, or it is extra Biblical, and it is to be denied as the lie that it is. Scripture tells us of one commandment given in the garden, and it wasn’t written on stone.
Do you believe that Ellen White was a prophet of God?
that position is not simply extra-biblical. Many things about Scripture are more implied or alluded to, than explicitly stated.
The New Testament does not mention abortion. According to you, because it is not spelled out as explicitly wrong, it is not wrong to do.
The Bible also doesn’t talk about drug use. I guess it’s ok to inject heroin straight up.
If you want to rely on just what the Bible says to do explicitly and ignore everything else that is alluded to or implied, that’s your choice. And it is mine to also look at what people do and reason things out about the story.
As far as EGW goes, she had some very interesting insights, I think, but not every Adventist puts her on the same level as Scripture.
See the problem we have here is that you asserted something that Scripture never says, which is classic EG White/SDA. Then when called on your deception, rather than admitting that what you said is not true, you try to obfuscate.
There’s not a single shred of proof for the assertion that Adam kept the Sabbath, that Abraham kept the Sabbath, that Noah kept the Sabbath. There’s not a single shred of evidence that the early church kept the Sabbath, in fact all evidence from Scripture is that the early church met and worshipped on Sunday. (Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2)
Readers of this thread should take note of the tactic of SDA’s. Ellen G. White, the founder of their religion was a false prophet who believed that salvation required faith in Christ + sabbath keeping. They are deluded and deceived, and should be called on their lies to keep others from falling prey to their deceptions.
Thank God, He saved my parents out of this cult a year and a half ago.
Nah, that’s just classic me. I hate couching things or creating sub-paragraphs during the course of conversations, just so every possibility can be accounted for.
If a Bible character shows that something is wrong or if the Israelites are doing something on their own, without it having been explicitly spelled out, it was spelled out to them sometime.
If God has explicitly spelled it out at some point, then He also must have taught it to His people.
Those are not unreasonable assumptions.
If you really believe that, unless it is explicitly banned by God, that implications should be ignored, then you probably should not be saying anything negative about homosexuality, abortion, drug use, abusive relations, porn, parents abandoning their children, and many things that you and probably agree are evil.
Because they aren’t explicitly condemned by the New Testament.
Your ignorance of Scripture is showing again.
1 Corinthians 6:9 - “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor men who practice HOMOSEXUALITY......
Romans 1:27 - “and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Ephesians 5:5 - “For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous, has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.”
Homosexuals, pornographers, abortionists, drug users, and abusive parents are condemned in the New Testament. But oddly enough, Saturday Sabbath breakers are not.
I’d suggest reading Ephesians, to see what the Christian life looks like. No mention of Sabbath keeping.
But those are what Paul wrote. That would be called hearsay in the court of law, because never brought any of that up.
You haven’t provided any Scripture for abusive parents or drug users.
Since “the natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned” (1 Corinthians 2:14), I’m not surprised.
Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the second person of the Trinity. Jesus has always been God, he was never Michael the archangel. Jesus created Lucifer, they were never equals. Jesus didn’t design the plan of salvation and present it to God the Father. Our sins will not be born by Satan, they were already born by Jesus and are now put away forever. There are so many lies in the SDA religion, that I could never go through them all. This will have to suffice for now.
Michael means one who is like God. As I understand it, that is the Greek equivalent for saying, ‘is God’.
Angel means messenger. Archangel means, ‘the main messenger’.
So, putting it together, you have ‘The main messenger, who is God.’
I’m not expecting you to agree with me, but that’s the reasoning behind that, from an Adventist perspective.
That is hardly the same position as the JW’s, who teach that Christ was a created being or had a lesser position than God the Father.
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