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Advice on dealing with child protective services
My brain | 9-11-11 | Bugswol

Posted on 09/11/2011 5:00:12 PM PDT by BUGSWOL

My girlfriend has a friend in Washington State, who is a bit odd, Christian, home school type. While they are not not the normal standard people the government would like us to me, she assures me that they are in fact good people who love their children. The also adopted a couple of children from Ethiopia. One of those children died under strange circumstances, so naturally it was investigated. That is perfectly understandable.

It turns out that the child had some sort of tropical malady that led to rapid weight loss loss, erratic behavior and an untimely death. Now this is where it gets bad. Despite the death being ruled to have been the result of natural causes, their other children have been removed form the home and kept form the parents by child protective services. These children who have been home schooled their entire lives and fed on a diet of healthy natural foods are now in foster homes being fed junk and sent to public schools. The children were tested before enrollment and all of them tested at least 3 grade levels above their chronological age. Sounds like some awful parents doesn't it.

Now they have been told by their court appointed lawyers not to say a word or make waves of any kind even though they are regularly being slandered in the press there.

I am chomping at the bit to post some of the articles here and encourage freepers to let the CPS working in Washington State know what we think, but my girlfriend says no, because they haven't asked. I am of the opinion that if we sit on our hands their kids will just quietly be taken away permanently and they will move on to taking kids away from parents who do other odd things like vote Republican and believe in God.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; US: Washington; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: chat; cps; homeschool; legal; vanity
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Any thoughts or advice? Thank you.
1 posted on 09/11/2011 5:00:21 PM PDT by BUGSWOL
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To: BUGSWOL

lawyer up.


2 posted on 09/11/2011 5:02:02 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (...then they came for the guitars, and we kicked their sorry faggot asses into the dust)
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To: BUGSWOL

“Some sort of a tropical malady?”


3 posted on 09/11/2011 5:02:34 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: BUGSWOL

There is a financial incentive for CPS to keep the kids. However the legal route is really the only one to take. Maybe get a better lawyer/


4 posted on 09/11/2011 5:02:50 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: BUGSWOL
Secretly record all conversations.
5 posted on 09/11/2011 5:04:41 PM PDT by donna (This is what happens when America is no longer a Christian nation.)
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To: the invisib1e hand

If they had a good lawyer, I’d whole heartedly agree. I suspect the court appointed lawyer has their own agenda and career track that may not include winning a case for Christian home schoolers.


6 posted on 09/11/2011 5:05:03 PM PDT by BUGSWOL (No one was ever burned at the stake for saying the Earth was flat)
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To: 1rudeboy

She told me what is was, but I can’t remember what exactly. It isn’t something one gets in the USA normally.


7 posted on 09/11/2011 5:07:01 PM PDT by BUGSWOL (No one was ever burned at the stake for saying the Earth was flat)
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To: BUGSWOL

My best advice is for them to hire their own lawyer if they can afford it. A court appointed lawyer... I just think one that you hire would do better. That being said, you mentioned a “healthy” diet. May I ask if the diet is be called into some sort of question? Are they eliminating all fats and sugars completely or have they adopted an extreme form of eating only a handful of items?


8 posted on 09/11/2011 5:09:04 PM PDT by momtothree
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To: BUGSWOL

Probably following their lawyer’s advice at this point would be the best thing they could do. Except for one other, which is to PRAY. The gubmint loves any excuse to take peoples’ kids away when they’re Christians, homeschool, etc. But God is bigger than any government.


9 posted on 09/11/2011 5:09:09 PM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus ("A gentleman considers what is just; a small man considers what is expedient.")
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To: BUGSWOL

HSLDA: Homeschooling Advocates since 1983

They need to contact these people as ASAP! They defend homeschool families, and they are sharp!


10 posted on 09/11/2011 5:13:56 PM PDT by WestwardHo
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To: momtothree

No just home cooked meals with lots of home grown fruits and vegetables. Awful stuff like that.


11 posted on 09/11/2011 5:14:02 PM PDT by BUGSWOL (No one was ever burned at the stake for saying the Earth was flat)
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To: BUGSWOL

HSLDA: Homeschooling Advocates since 1983

They need to contact these people as ASAP! They defend homeschool families, and they are sharp!


12 posted on 09/11/2011 5:14:05 PM PDT by WestwardHo
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To: momtothree

No just home cooked meals with lots of home grown fruits and vegetables. Awful stuff like that.


13 posted on 09/11/2011 5:14:13 PM PDT by BUGSWOL (No one was ever burned at the stake for saying the Earth was flat)
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To: BUGSWOL

It seems odd that the other children would be taken without just cause. I can’t help but wonder if there’s more to the story that your wife doesn’t know about. However, if what you have written is accurate, then they need to hire a lawyer, get their children back, and sue the state.


14 posted on 09/11/2011 5:14:13 PM PDT by Joyell
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To: BUGSWOL

From first hand experience, your friend’s case has gone way beyond easy fixes.

DO NOT get a lawyer that practices in that family court. They only kiss up for the next time they are in front of the same judge. You gotta get an attorney that has no reason to be nice to that judge.

We got our grandkids, their parents and practice preventative measures.


15 posted on 09/11/2011 5:15:11 PM PDT by George from New England (escaped CT in 2006, now living north of Tampa)
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To: BUGSWOL

they probably can’t find a lawyer in the phone book that doesn’t have an agenda dictated by the state. nevertheless, better to keep the enemies close and on the payroll.


16 posted on 09/11/2011 5:15:11 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (...then they came for the guitars, and we kicked their sorry faggot asses into the dust)
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To: BUGSWOL
Any thoughts ...

In hindsight, HSLDA membership would have been wise.

In the present, they shouldn't be relying on a court-appointed legal representative. If their church community can't help them find a good attorney and, if necessary, help with the costs, then they need a better church community.

Could the ... agency, institution, whatever ... that placed the Ethiopian children with them help them to find competent representation?

17 posted on 09/11/2011 5:16:03 PM PDT by Tax-chick (I welcome our new reptilian overlords. They are so quiet!)
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To: BUGSWOL

“Awful stuff like that..”

I had to ask since I was wondering if Social Services actually requested from the Foster family to feed them higher caloric foods. Sounds to me like the foster family just like to eat junk instead. Prayers for your friends and their poor children. After burying one of their children, I can’t imagine what they are going through losing the others. I pray it is only temporary.


18 posted on 09/11/2011 5:20:09 PM PDT by momtothree
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To: BUGSWOL

If this is the case I think it is, the girl didn’t exactly die of “natural causes.” She died of hypothermia, in the rain, in her own backyard.


19 posted on 09/11/2011 5:32:39 PM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: BUGSWOL

A prosecutor friend told me that court appointed lawyers regularly committed unethical acts by telling their clients to agree to pleas that the lawyer should have fought. (Now this is criminal law, but I think the reasoning applies here too.) The reasons they did this is the lawyers have to deal with the same prosecutors all the time and they want the relations to go smoothly. Also, the court appointed lawyers are looking for better jobs as court appointed anything is the bottom of the food chain. The court appointed lawyers lack experience and that’s what they’re getting in their present job but many of them pencil-whip the job without putting any effort into their clients’ defense.

These folks need their own lawyers.


20 posted on 09/11/2011 5:34:15 PM PDT by Gen.Blather
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To: WestwardHo
HSLDA: Homeschooling Advocates since 1983 They need to contact these people as ASAP! They defend homeschool families, and they are sharp!

HSLDA is great. They helped me and Mrs. MAExile out a few years ago.

However, I think this might be a little outside their experience. They should be able to make a good referral.

21 posted on 09/11/2011 5:35:58 PM PDT by MAexile (Bats left, votes right)
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To: momtothree

Does the American Center for Law and Justice in Virginia advise on such cases?


22 posted on 09/11/2011 5:36:32 PM PDT by RitaOK (TEXAS. It's EXHIBIT A for Rick. Perry/Rubio '12)
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To: BUGSWOL
She told me what is was, but I can’t remember what exactly. It isn’t something one gets in the USA normally.

Cholera is one that's uncommon in the U.S. but it's not necessarily a "tropical disease". My son got it about 15 years ago while working for Tyson's Foods in Missouri and he came near death from it.

23 posted on 09/11/2011 5:37:33 PM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: BUGSWOL
my girlfriend says no, because they haven't asked

Maybe she says no because she is really a young man.

24 posted on 09/11/2011 5:41:18 PM PDT by humblegunner (The kinder, gentler version...)
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To: BUGSWOL

Not enough info here to make any sort of a judgement based on the circumstances. Writing this with minimal facts, just brings idle speculation that does nothing productive. What are the specific contentions that removed the children from the home?


25 posted on 09/11/2011 5:42:52 PM PDT by vox_freedom (America is being tested as never before in its history. May God help us.)
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To: humblegunner

Florida is a long way from Washington State, isn’t it?


26 posted on 09/11/2011 5:45:05 PM PDT by vox_freedom (America is being tested as never before in its history. May God help us.)
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

No, she didn’t die of hypothermia, the Coroner ruled that out.
But that didn’t make it on the news.


27 posted on 09/11/2011 5:45:23 PM PDT by BUGSWOL (No one was ever burned at the stake for saying the Earth was flat)
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To: WestwardHo

Extra bump for HSLDA. Get them involved right away.


28 posted on 09/11/2011 5:49:13 PM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: BUGSWOL

According to this article, the coroner ruled that she died of hypothermia.

http://www.skyvalleychronicle.com/BREAKING-NEWS/AUTHORITIES-PROBE-HYPOTHERMIA-DEATH-OF-ADOPTED-GIRL-IN-SKAGIT-COUNTY-731555


29 posted on 09/11/2011 5:55:35 PM PDT by LimberJim
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To: BUGSWOL

CPS in Washington state (King County especially) are the most evil bastards on the planet. Do not try to bargain with them; do not try to be helpful with them - it only strengthens their resolve to screw you. Lawyer up as quality ($$$) as you can, and interview them to make sure that they are conversant and current at dealing with family law.

Good luck!


30 posted on 09/11/2011 5:55:55 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: BUGSWOL
No, she didn’t die of hypothermia, the Coroner ruled that out. But that didn’t make it on the news.

This article suggests that you are incorrect: Coroner: Adopted teen died of hypothermia in backyard

I don't doubt that, in your experience at least, these are decent Christian people. But that does not mean that CPS should not step in where a child is found dead in the cold in her backyard.

31 posted on 09/11/2011 5:58:04 PM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: vox_freedom

My girlfriend and I both live in Florida. She used to live in Washington States and through the wonders of modern technology they are able to communicate with each other.


32 posted on 09/11/2011 6:00:46 PM PDT by BUGSWOL (No one was ever burned at the stake for saying the Earth was flat)
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To: Graybeard58

I don’t think it was Cholera. I would have recognized that one and remembered it.


33 posted on 09/11/2011 6:02:17 PM PDT by BUGSWOL (No one was ever burned at the stake for saying the Earth was flat)
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To: donna

“Secretly record all conversations.”

No, don’t! In many states that is now a felony, and they would lose the kids for good.


34 posted on 09/11/2011 6:07:13 PM PDT by PastorBooks
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To: BUGSWOL

rather than answering a question to someone else, why not answer the question I posed to you?


35 posted on 09/11/2011 6:08:42 PM PDT by vox_freedom (America is being tested as never before in its history. May God help us.)
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

No it is perfectly reasonable that they investigate.

The Coroner later changed his finding, but they had already found a witch and reporting something that might exonerate the witch would deprive the community of a good old fashioned witch burning.

Haven’t you figured out yet, that the MSM has an agenda that doesn’t include the truth in its reporting.


36 posted on 09/11/2011 6:09:04 PM PDT by BUGSWOL (No one was ever burned at the stake for saying the Earth was flat)
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To: BUGSWOL

This was told to you by the people being investigated, yes?


37 posted on 09/11/2011 6:11:08 PM PDT by Domalais
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To: BUGSWOL
court appointed lawyers

There's the problem. (Must be a sign of the liberalism up there if they are appointing lawyers for civil matters. Most places only appoint lawyers for criminal prosecutions).

If you really want to help, send them money for a good attorney. Although I do wonder a bit about someone who could afford multiple international adoptions but can't afford to hire an attorney.

The more I think about it, the more it seems that we are missing 'the rest of the story'.

38 posted on 09/11/2011 6:13:06 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: vox_freedom

Originally they were trying to charge the parents with manslaughter. When that didn’t pan out they just said the home was unsafe for the children.


39 posted on 09/11/2011 6:13:58 PM PDT by BUGSWOL (No one was ever burned at the stake for saying the Earth was flat)
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To: BUGSWOL
...who is a bit odd, Christian, home school type

Troll much?

40 posted on 09/11/2011 6:15:35 PM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature ($1.84 - The price of a gallon of gas on Jan. 20th, 2009.)
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To: Domalais

Having gone through a custody fight of my own, I do tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the parents.


41 posted on 09/11/2011 6:17:49 PM PDT by BUGSWOL (No one was ever burned at the stake for saying the Earth was flat)
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To: IllumiNaughtyByNature

Why would you accuse me of trolling? I meant that as sarcasm. As in the government would consider anyone who was a Christian and God forbid did not enroll their children in a government school as a bit odd. If you took that as a jab at either Christians or home schoolers, I apologize.


42 posted on 09/11/2011 6:21:09 PM PDT by BUGSWOL (No one was ever burned at the stake for saying the Earth was flat)
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To: BUGSWOL

Large number of children, a small minority of which being adopted children, and it’s an adopted child that dies under supicious circumstances that includes low body weight. You could open up a red flag store with all of those.


43 posted on 09/11/2011 6:22:47 PM PDT by Domalais
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

Thanks for that link. I had made my posting that we were probably missing ‘the rest of the story’ before I saw your posting.

It makes a lot of sense now. Given what is known, it would have been negligence if they hadn’t removed the children while they investigate.


44 posted on 09/11/2011 6:23:30 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: BUGSWOL

Contact the Alliance Defense Fund


45 posted on 09/11/2011 6:23:59 PM PDT by almcbean
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To: BUGSWOL
... I do tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the parents.

Doubt about a 13 year old losing 30 lbs, and according to the coroner dying outside of hypothermia? The County Prosecutor is evidently weighing charges, and CPS is the agency that removed the other children until their safety can be assured. What else do you have the "benefit of the doubt" about?

46 posted on 09/11/2011 6:25:04 PM PDT by vox_freedom (America is being tested as never before in its history. May God help us.)
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To: WestwardHo
The HSLDA can also link them with attorneys who support their case even if the HSLDA won't take the case themselves. Other resources they can use (who often take pro bono cases) are:

Homeschool Legal Advantage http://homeschoollegaladvantage.com/

Pacific Justice Institute http://www.pacificjustice.org/

Rutherford Institute http://www.rutherford.org/

47 posted on 09/11/2011 6:26:42 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: Domalais

As I said an investigation is perfectly reasonable, but it seems to have become a witch hunt. All the other children including the other adopted child were perfectly healthy and tested 3 grade levels ahead of their age group. Yeah that sounds like some bad parenting.


48 posted on 09/11/2011 6:27:16 PM PDT by BUGSWOL (No one was ever burned at the stake for saying the Earth was flat)
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To: IllumiNaughtyByNature
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
49 posted on 09/11/2011 6:27:28 PM PDT by vox_freedom (America is being tested as never before in its history. May God help us.)
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To: BUGSWOL

Tell them to find a private lawyer who can truly dedicate his or her time to defending them and helping them navigate the sytem. Yes it will be expensive but maybe friends and family will be willing to help out.

Tell them most of all DO NOT SPEAK TO CPS AT ALL FOR ANY REASON WITHOUT THEIR ATTORNEY PRESENT TO ADVISE THEM. I can not stress that enough. They are walking through minefield and without proper legal representation they are gonna trip one of the mines.

Second go on the offensive. Publicize as much as possible the medical findings which exonerate them in the death of their child. Publicize any improper or breaches of policy by CPS workers. An example would be not telling the parents of their rights during proceedings. Or giving the impression that a court had sanctioned CPS actions when it had not. CPS has a hard time distinguishing between should and shall and often ignores the restraints that law actually puts on them.

Best to them.


50 posted on 09/11/2011 6:28:14 PM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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