Posted on 09/14/2011 12:59:16 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
n Monday night’s debate, Michele Bachmann, Ron Paul and Rick Santorum all seemed to be auditioning for the role that Jude Law plays in the film “Contagion” -- Alan Krumwiede, a blogger who tells millions that a vaccine to combat a lethal pathogen is actually dangerous, and claims both the epidemic and vaccine were created by government to enrich drug companies.
Krumwiede’s conspiracy theory proves deadly -- and so will these Republicans’, if anyone listens.
....Don’t be distracted by legitimate, but minor, questions about how states should make public-health decisions: The thrust of this attack is garbage -- and deadly garbage at that. The anti-vaccine psuedo-science behind the charge has been thoroughly discredited.
By alleging that vaccines cause retardation and brain damage, Bachmann is providing aid and comfort to such groups as Generation Rescue, which still defend the now-discredited claims that vaccines cause autism. (The Lancet decertified Andrew Wakefield’s “study” last year. This year, the British Medical Journal showed his research was bogus to boot.)
All three candidates slammed Texas Gov. Rick Perry for requiring immunization of 12-year-old girls against the human papilloma virus, a leading cause of cervical cancer. The attack truly became a blogworthy screed as we heard about how Perry and Merck (the developer of Gardasil, one of the two HPV vaccines) profited from the mandate at the expense of children’s health.
....Unless other Republicans confront Bachmann or she changes her tune, fewer parents will vaccinate their kids. More children will die. Tragically, life will imitate art.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
I don’t understand why you don’t think this vaccine would be available without direct government involvement.
Do people have sex?
I don't care WHO helps make's it easily and cheaply available. It's a cancer prevention vaccine.
I did NOT hint or say anything about abortion pills. BamBamKennedy said himself, that under his health care system when asked about a medical procedure for an old grandmother... that it might be where a 'pill instead of a procedure' would be the route taken. The reasoning is the expected life span of an old grandmother was NOT cost effective to spend health care dollars. So our dear 'government' has assessed where government (taxpayer) dollars will get allocated to keep alive the bodies most important to maintain their system.
Ah my point of view is NOT narrow, as I am NOT the one who seems to think it is a benefit to your selected candidate to bash and smash Bachmann because she had the nerve to repeat what someone told her after the debate.
WE the people are BROKE, and it is NOT by accident, and IF anyone thinks that we can sustain the taxation without representation to maintain our medical expenditures is NOT paying attention to what has taken place over the past 50+ years.
CW: “Is this life saving vaccine just for the wealthy? The educated? The elite?”
You go to far! You’ve expanded “life saving” to the point of nonsense. Decades after exposure, some girls (who are exposed to HPV) will develop cancer. Most can be cured by cancer treatments and surgery, but an even smaller percent will die. You might as well mandate that government provide free stomach stapling for the poor, because we know excessively overweight people have much higher risks of diabetes and heart disease. Not only that, but you should support free gym memberships for the poor, too. I bet the health risks of poor diet and lack of exercise are more dangerous than the risks of not taking Gardasil.
Hello,
I see that you have another thread dedicated to this subject, and have to wonder if you have a personal stake in the argument. I do not mean financially, but perhaps have had your life impacted by this.
If so, I can understand the desire to protect others from enduring something that *may* be preventable, and have no desire on my part to be perceived as attacking you directly or dismissing the suffering of anyone who has had their life or family impacted by any form of cancer. But I wonder if our societal push for a cure for cancer does not lead us to taint our interpretations of experiments with more hope than reality.
However, here is the American College of Pediatricians position on the HPV vaccination:
“The American College of Pediatricians is opposed to any legislation that would require HPV vaccination for school attendance. Excluding children from school for refusal to be vaccinated against a disease spread only by sexual activity is a serious, precedent-setting action that trespasses on the right of parents to make medical decisions for their children as well as on the rights of the children to attend school. The administration of this vaccine is exclusively to prevent a disease that is sexually transmitted, and mandating it as early as 9 years of age places the medical provider in an ethical dilemma. Administering the vaccine requires explanation to both the parent and the child. Parents may have chosen not to introduce the subject of sexual activity to their nine year old due to the child’s physical and emotional immaturity. Most 9-12 year old children are not sexually active; many have not entered puberty. Forcing a parent to forsake his/her better judgment to prematurely discuss HPV with the child would be inappropriate and unnecessarily intrusive.”
source:
http://www.acpeds.org/Human-Papilloma-Virus-Vaccination.html
I note that the paper does start with a statement of its safety, which I do not find convincing, but its discussion of sexuality and doctors’ and parents’ roles in discussing it with young people is much better than I expected.
I love how my opinion is dismissed, or made suspect for motive, through “wondering if” you’re only doing this because you’ve been “impacted” by this somehow preface to your post. (thanks for not implying — though you did bring it up - that I have a money motive - which I do not).
Nonsense.
No one in Texas was going to be excluded from attending school w/o this vaccine. No one had this vaccine given because of Rick Perry’s EO (which the legislature voted to remove) to make it more easily available.
The group that represents most Pediatricians in the USA (60 thousand members) is the American Academy of Pediatrics and they support giving the vaccine.
the group you quote is listed having an address in Gainesville Florida, was started in 2002, does not require you to be a pediatrician to join, has no information on how many belong except to say they have members in "47 states".
DB: “So every drug or whatever else that “can save a life” needs to have the skids greased by government so that it can get to the “general population - cheaply, easily and quickly” as possible...”
You’ve proven conclusively that CW is a statist. Where does individual liberty and responsibility come into CW’s thinking? Based on her written statements, government has an obligation to provide free health care to the poor so long as whatever is provided might ultimately save a life. Gardisil wasn’t even means tested. Governor Perry wanted it provided at taxpayer expense for all girls, whether or not the parents could afford it.
Personally? I don’t think CW is really a statist. I just think she tries to justify whatever her current favorite candidate has done and doesn’t take those justifications to their logical conclusions. I’m sure many on the left would use the same arguments to support all sorts of free health services to the poor, a constantly expanding array of services for a constantly expanding pool of eligible people. That way leads to bankruptcy on a grand scale.
As you noted, nothing prevents parents or charities from providing the vaccine to whoever they want. Just because someone can’t “afford” something, it doesn’t mean everyone else should be forced to pay.
aruanan: “There is no risk of a penectomy from poor diet and lack of exercise. There is from cancer from genital warts.”
You’re trying to justify mandated free Gardasil because it involves women’s health? So if it has anything to do with a woman’s parts, then it’s up to everyone else to pay for it?
This not the same thing as a pair of shoes or a box of pencils. This is life and death -- and can be prevented for thousands of people through access and affordability -- whoever makes that happen.
Nice shot about "statist."
No one can argue or give an opinion that disagrees with yours?
“Hello,
I see that you have another thread dedicated to this subject, and have to wonder if you have a personal stake in the argument.”
-
Since you mention it, I’ve been wondering that as well.
It’s getting a bit tiresome, in truth.
CW: “No one can argue or give an opinion that disagrees with yours?”
Don’t be melodramatic. Am I stopping you from arguing with me or posting your opinions?
I’m simply stating facts. There are many, many health risks and behaviors that can ultimately kill people. If that’s your justification for providing (and mandating) the service for free as in the case of Gardasil, then where does it stop? Poor diet ultimately kills a certain number of people. Same thing with using tobacco. Are you ready to force everyone else to pay for “free” tobacco cessation classes, nutrition counseling, personal trainers, etc?
If you’re saying the risk of a fatality at some point in the future justifies government control and/or “free” services for the poor, then you’re a statist on this issue at least.
What’s wrong with simply educating people about the risks and letting them make their own decisions? What do you have against private charity? Liberty?
I'm prepared to support Perry, warts and all, if he's the best we can come up with. As someone else mentioned, Bachmann is politically in a position where she's down to a hail mary pass. Her choice of this issue I believe shows some desperation.
Why aren’t men mandated to get the vaccine if they are the vectors?
That is a good question.
Thank you for pointing this out. Looking a little more...
Browsing their site leads to a link for qualifications for membership:
“Fellow
An applicant for Fellow in the American College of Pediatricians shall satisfy the following criteria:
1. Certification in pediatrics by the American Board of Pediatrics or the American Osteopathic Board of Pediatrics, or any other certification as determined by the Board of Directors.
2. Demonstration of evidence of high ethical and professional standing.
...
Specialty
An applicant for Specialty Fellow in the American College of Pediatricians shall satisfy the following criteria:
1. Licensed physician, other than a pediatrician, credentialed by an American Board in a pediatric discipline, or documented training devoting 50% or more time to pediatric patients
2. Demonstration of evidence of high ethical and professional standing...”
So it would seem that pediatrics is a requirement, even if being a “pediatrician” per se is not.
I am not sure if this is different from the AAP, whose site says:
“The AAP is an organization of 60,000 primary care pediatricians, pediatric medical subspecialists and pediatric surgical specialists.
Immunizations are one of several strategic priorities for the AAP. “
The difference seems to lie in interpretation of criterion 2. I suspect that many of our Catholic doctors may have interest in the “college”
I also suspect the the Academy is less likely to question any form of vaccination, while noting that “support[ing] giving the vaccination” is different from supporting mandating the vaccination, which is the subject of the instant controversy.
I do have some knowledge on this subject. You are familiar with the pre-natal thalidomide debacle? Point is these vaccines are not tested on human embryos, infants or young children before initial approval by the FDA.
If there is a small chance of debilitating side-affect the drug will usually get through trials and be fully approved for usage.
The problem is these side effects are often in greater frequency and severity than the illness they’re designed to prevent. This is compounded by their defense from the guilty parties -the medical community, the government agencies and the drug makers. They make formidable opponents to people only interested in their and their family’s health.
I can state catagorically from criminal interrogations I’ve made of medical professionals that the 6-month DTaP, Hib, PCV and Rota vaccine is a significant contributor to SIDs deaths. This is a well-known phenomenon among the professions which they’re instructed not to discuss or disclose.
I’ll add my son received the 6-month and came down with the Rota virus anyway. It doesn’t work and it kills kids.
FDA approval for use on males was approved October 2009, after the aborted mandate in Texas.
I'm still unclear on Perry's position with regard to mandating Gardasil. Is his position that Gardasil SHOULD be a mandatory vaccination? (with "mandatory" having similar opt-out delay provisions that pertain to other vaccines in the "mandatory" schedule)
Palin only supported the charge of crony capitalism. And that charge against Perry is informed, appropriate, and supported by a damning confluence of circumstantial evidence.
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