Posted on 10/19/2011 8:58:06 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
It was Fight Night in Las Vegas on Tuesday, and for arguably the first time this year, Mitt Romney took some body blows.
Romney generally acquitted himself well and even got in some jabs of his own at Tuesday’s CNN debate in Nevada, but the totality of the attacks left their mark on a candidate who has been more the Teflon candidate than a punching bag early in the 2012 campaign.
Perhaps most notably, Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) actually made some headway Tuesday night. After some troubled performances in the last few debates, Perry launched a new attack (new to this campaign, at least; it had beenbeen used in the 2008 campaign) on Romney for hiring a landscaping service that employed illegal immigrants.
In addition, former senator Rick Santorum (R) said Romney has no credibility on repealing President Obama’s health care bill because of a similar bill Romney spearheaded as Massachusetts governor, and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich (R) joined in the attack on Romneycare.
The Perry exchange seemed to get under Romney’s skin more than the others. And as Perry kept pressing the point and interrupting Romney, Romney became visibly angry and actually put his hand on Perry’s shoulder for a moment. Then, he got a little personal.
“It’s been a tough couple of debates for Rick, so I understand it,” Romney said in response to that attacks, adding: “You have a problem with allowing people to finish speaking.”
The attack has yet to play out completely, but it was arguably the first time that Romney was out of his element on the debate stage. (Of course, it wasn’t the first time he has awkwardly pleaded with someone to let him speak.)
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
Still going through the debate. Everytime Romney is attacked on an issue I see him counterpunching and defending himself very effectively. On health care, Santorum attacked him, but he held his ground, refuted some points, and then sequeways into the need to repeal Obamacare and ends up with a solid applause line.Newt then attacks him on health care. He seems to be doing a very effective job of criticizing Romney both on pragmatism and principle. But then Romney gets Newt to affirm that, as a member of the Heritage Foundation, he at one time advocated for an individual mandate. Newt's left looking foolish, and Romney is still commanding the debate.
Perry remains ineffectively slow, inarticulate and clumsy put up against pretty much anyone else on the stage. I continue to fast forward over most of Michelle Bachmann.
I didn't think Cain's defense of 9-9-9 was very effective. Apples and Oranges. Read OUR analysis. I think Newt effectively summarized the political problems with the concept. He did it magnanimously, but the bottom line was shitcan 9-9-9.
Ron Paul is not a commanding speaker, with his sing-song pitch, and unpolished delivery. But sometimes his 100 proof libertarianism is a welcome thing. Like his answer on the tax question. He also lambasted 9-9-9, but then gave a good quick talk about how SPENDING is the source of our woes.
Gov. Perry did great last night - he is the first candidate to finally attack Romney - and he drew blood!
The next thing will be on the 25th when Perry unveils his economic plan - this will get his ideas out there on the front burner & allow people to contrast his plan with Cain’s. I believe this will help Perry.
I think that after last night’s latest flip-flop from Cain and closer scrutiny of his 999 plan, that he’s probably peaking - he got a taste of what it feels like to be the front-runner in a debate.
I’m getting a sense of a new trend after last night too (I think an indication that Cain didn’t do that well) - that Newt seems to be the new “flavor of the week”.
He demonstrated that he can not tell an apple from an orange. But he will try to sell you a lemon.
Romney became visibly angry and actually put his hand on Perry’s shoulder for a moment
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Wasnt it Romnbey who “put his hand on (the) shoulder” of a passenger in a plane ???
Pretty aggressive if you ask me...
Nobody even told lil Willie Mitty to “keep his hands to himself” ???
I thought Perry kicked but last night.
You forgot the sarcasm tag...unless of course you were serious. In that case, you couldn't be more wrong. Perry came off horribly. No substance, petty and small is no way to get people to support you.
Cain could not withstand the barrage on 9-9-9; kept on saying “apples and oranges.” Not quite.
In NH we have a 0% orange tax. And they’ll hit us with a 9% apple tax.
No thanks.
I personally thought this was pretty lame and made Perry look petty. Can Perry prove that he checks the immigration status of every worker of every company he has ever used? When he does that, he might have a leg to stand on. But I doubt anyone does that - who has the time?
What frightens me is many people will pay no attention to what is said, but will vote for the man who APPEARS to be most presidential based simply on looks.
I remember the Kennedy-Nixon debates in 1960. Those who heard the debate on RADIO said Nixon won hands down.
Those who saw it on TV said Kennedy won. Nixon looked TERRIBLE in that televised debate and that cost him the presidency.
I am afraid it will be the same with the Republican debates.
Sometimes I think it is best to go back to choosing a Presidential candidate by using the “Smokey Back Room” method.
That would be “butt” as in Moochelle’s. :-)
I agree with you and so does Laura Ingraham.
Mittens putting his hand on Perry’s shoulder? Control.
Have you ever noticed how when Bam shakes hands, he then puts his other hand on the person’s arm? Ditto control.
“Sometimes I think it is best to go back to choosing a Presidential candidate by using the “Smokey Back Room” method.”
That would be the Electoral College, with no popular vote. The way Washington became president. i don’t know when we started taking the popular vote into consideration.
“Pretty aggressive if you ask me...”
Sorry, Romney won that “round” with Perry, IMHO. First, by putting his hand on Perry’s shoulder and Perry acceding to this, he sent a strong visual signal that he was the Alpha male in the exchange. Second, he got in a few deft zingers, reminding people that Perry had not performed well in previous debates and also pointing out (correctly) that anyone who aspires to be president has to be able/ready to listen to the other side. For a public deeply aggravated by how poorly Washington works, I think that message likely resonated.
All in all, Perry came across as a spoiled little kid, hammering away on a weak argument. I think most Americans understand that if you hire a lawn service, you’re not expected to know the immigration status of every employer they send out to cut your lawn.
Perry was surely feister last night than in previous debates, but net net, I don’t think he helped himself since too much of his feistiness did not look particularly presidential.
i like your analysis. seems accurate.
...but i’m still surprised, that all the Perry “conservatives” keep posting liberal media articles that are pro-Perry.
“So if a winner must be crowned, make it Rick Perry,”
from the LA Times (posted minutes ago also by Cincinatus’ Wife), and recent articles praising or defending Perry.
like the Daily Caller story, and the ABC story of Perry “agreeing” with his wife, he is being “brutalized” because of his religion.
...personally, i’ll vote for the Republican who the liberal media praises LEAST.
doesn’t even the Perry pack, wonder why the libs like Perry?
and Perry has dropped tremendously in polls, especially for true conservative Tea party people...
yet Perry is TOPS in fund-raising.
don’t they wonder, if the Tea Pary is rejecting Perry,
WHO are the people paying all the money who want Perry in control ?
don’t they have ANY curiosity?
I didn't get to see the last part of the debate, but from what I did see, I don't see how Romney is the winner. He came across as defensive and flustered several times, even sounding like a bullied child asking Anderson Cooper to help him. Pathetic.
Cain could have done better and it sounds like I missed the 9-9-9 zingers. Up until then, I thought he did alright, but not great.
Perry seems like he's all over the place to me. I also found it ironic and stupid to even bring up the term "illegal immigrant" in an attack on Romney, given the in-state tuition millstone around his neck.
Bachman - I have never liked her or thought she was a viable candidate. I'm admittedly biased, so don't take anything she says seriously.
Santorum made me laugh with his attacks on Romney. Personally, I liked how he shut him down on Romneycare and mocked that he was out of time. I don't think he's Presidential material, but it was fun to watch.
Newt definitely comes across as one of the two adults in the room, Cain being the other. But he does so with some serious experience and calm. I liked his responses, but have no idea where he fits. He's from a different era, so don't know how that plays. Seems like a great VP or administration pick.
Ron Paul - who? Get off the stage you loon!
Romney - This guy seems to have gotten slimier since we last saw him in 2008, if that's possible. He looks like a weasel to me and sounds like a Mommy's boy crying, "it's my turn now!" I seriously hope he is not the nominee. Just like Obama to me, I cannot even stand to listen to him speak.
It does seem that Romney is the best debater of all the candidates.I don’t think all of the facts about the 999 plan have been articulated by Cain but I like his boldness in presenting something that should be discussed. I liked Perry when he first announced but I have since concluded that his debating skills are so poor that Obama would make him out to be mincemeat.The 999 plan may be too difficult a concept to sell to the American people to understand.
When Mitt put his hand on Perry’s shoulder I thought Perry was going to throw a punch. The look on his face was not that of a happy camper.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Mitt presents himself as, "I am the chosen one and I can lie until I'm caught, I can lie about you with a smile, and why do I have to put up with you losers? elite, entitled snob." imho
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