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Romney Versus Gingrich on Jihad and Sharia: A Clear Contrast
Big Peace ^ | November 25, 2011 | Andrew G. Bostom

Posted on 11/26/2011 7:21:46 AM PST by greyfoxx39

Early and volatile, the Republican Presidential nomination race—at least for now—appears to be settling into a contest between consistent front runner Mitt Romney and the latest surging “non-Romney alternative,” former House Speaker, Newt Gingrich.

Unfortunately, the CNN/Heritage Foundation/American Enterprise televised debate of 11/22/11 did not highlight the yawning gap between these frontrunning contenders’ views on the existential threat doctrine of our Islamic enemies: jihad and its motivational, sacralized religio-political “law,” Sharia.

During an interview with US News reporter Dan Gligoff published June 3, 2009, Mitt Romney offered the following bizarre observation about the living Islamic institution of jihad, ostensibly to “clarify” remarks made during an earlier speech at the Heritage Foundation:

I spoke about three major threats America faces on a long term basis. Jihadism is one of them, and that is not Islam.

Romney—notwithstanding this distressingly ridiculous pronouncement—remains, for now, the frontrunning contender for the Republican Presidential nomination.

Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich, in stark contrast to the muddled and craven nonsense uttered by Romney on jihad during his US News interview, delivered an astute and courageous address at The American Enterprise Institute, July 29, 2010, which provided an irrefragably accurate if blunt characterization of the existential threat posed by Islam’s living, self-professed mission: to impose Sharia, its totalitarian religio-political “law,” globally.

With vanishingly rare intellectual honesty and resolve, Gingrich described how normative Sharia—antithetical to bedrock Western legal principles—by “divine,” immutable diktat, rejects freedom of conscience, while sanctioning violent jihadism, absurd, misogynistic “rules of evidence” (four male witnesses for rape), barbarous punishments (stoning for adultery), and polygamy:

Sharia in its natural form has principles and punishments totally abhorrent to the Western world, and the underlying basic belief which is that law comes directly from God and is therefore imposed upon humans and no human can change the law without it being an act of apostasy is a fundamental violation of a tradition in the Western system which goes back to Rome, Athens, and Jerusalem and which has evolved in giving us freedom across the planet on a scale we can hardly imagine and which is now directly threatened by those who would impose it.

Moreover, Gingrich warned about efforts—deliberate, or unwitting–to represent Sharia as a benign system:

So let me also be quite clear that the rules are radical and horrific. I think again it’s fascinating that even when people go out and do polling and they say to, for example, Muslims in general, do you believe in Sharia, they don’t then explain what Sharia is. Sharia becomes like would you like to be a Rotarian and it sounds okay.

Gingrich’s unflinching portrayal of the existential threat Sharia represents—whether or not this totalitarian system is imposed by violent, or non-violent means—was accompanied by a clarion call for concrete measures to oppose any Sharia encroachment on the U.S. legal code:

Stealth jihadis use political, cultural, societal, religious, intellectual tools; violent jihadis use violence. But in fact they’re both engaged in jihad and they’re both seeking to impose the same end state which is to replace Western civilization with a [radical] imposition of Sharia.

The fight against Sharia and the madrassas in mosques which teach hatred and fanaticism is the heart of the enemy movement from which the terrorists spring forth. It’s time we had a national debate on this. One of the things I’m going to suggest today is a federal law which says no court anywhere in the United States under any circumstance is allowed to consider Sharia as a replacement for American law.

Subsequently, J. Mark Campbell of The United West obtained a video-recorded commitment from Newt Gingrich to pursue and prosecute the major Muslim Brotherhood front groups currently operating unencumbered in the US and being courted for “Muslim outreach” by feckless politicians, policymakers, and even law enforcement officials.

The Holy Land Foundation trial made unmistakably clear the agenda of this spider’s web of Muslim Brotherhood organizations—which includes unindicted co-conspirators CAIR (Council on American Islamic Relations), ISNA (Islamic Society of North America), and NAIT (North American Islamic Trust)—as stated explicitly by Yusuf al-Qaradawi acolyte Mohamed Akram, in his “An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Brotherhood in North America”, May 22, 1991 (translated here, on “Page 7 of 18,” bottom center pagination):

The process of settlement is a “Civilization-Jihadist Process” with all the word means. The Ikhwan [Muslim Brotherhood] must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and “sabotaging” its miserable house by their hands and by the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all other religions.

“Frontrunner” Mitt Romney needs to provide the same unequivocal commitment, immediately, to this critically important national security goal in the struggle against jihadism.

Newt Gingrich has set the standard for honest and informed discussion of Islamic totalitarianism which should be expected of all contenders—a standard Mitt Romney, thus far, fails, miserably.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2012election; 2012gopelection; elections; jihad; lds; mohammedanism; mormon; mormonism; moslem; newt; newtonsharia; romney; sharia
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23 Similarities between Mormonism and Islam:


- Both claim to be the restoration of the "true gospel" that had been lost,

- Both restorations involved visions,

- Both restorations were assisted by an angel,
- New Holy Scriptures were revealed to man from a book that exists in heaven,

- Both new scriptures claimed to be the perfect word of God,


- Multiple, inconsistent creation stories in the new revealed scripture,

- Practice of polygamy sanctioned at some point in both religions,

- Strict patriarchal authority in both religious and family life,

- Both religions are structured as effective theocracies,

- Both religions teach that Earth is to be cleansed by fire in the last days,

- Sanctions against use of alcohol and tobacco.

- Women relegated to secondary roles and subjected to the husband (or in Islam to any other male relative).

- Women encouraged to dress modestly, with sanctions against those who fail to do so.

--Both the Book of Mormon and the Koran contain stories and/or extended near-verbatim passages from the Bible.

- Both religions accept the Bible as scripture, but believe it to be corrupted in some ways and hold their revealed scriptures to be "more correct".

- In both Islam and Mormonism, apostasy condemns one to hell, and in Islam apostasy can require blood atonement (that is, the death of the apostate).

- Principle of blood atonement in Mormonism has analogs in Islam including death to apostates and the tradition of "honor killings". That is, there are certain sins which can only be atoned for by the shedding of blood. (Honor killings in Islam are usually visited upon young females.)

- Both of the revealed "perfect books" (Koran and Book of Mormon) were later revised to make them "more correct". Mohammad removed the "Satanic Verses" from the Koran, and more than a thousand changes have been made to the Book of Mormon since the original edition was printed.

- Both religions initially contained elements of polytheism, which were later removed ("Satanic Verses" from the Koran) or de-emphasized or denied such as man-to-God and Adam-God principles in Mormonism.

- Multiple heavens (7 in Islam and 3 plus additional degrees in Mormonism) where men can be accorded multiple wives (and / or concubines in Islam).

-Divided into two or more sects by disagreements over whether the right to lead the religion (succession) should be inherited, or when new leaders try to reform or update the basic tenets of the religion.

- Belief in the existence of "immortalized" or "translated" beings (The Three Nephites in Mormonism and the Immortal Imam in Islam) who still walk the earth waiting to be of assistance to the faithful in some future time of crisis.

- Joseph Smith and Muhammad both had a lust for young females. Both acted on these desires, and had multiple wives and mistresses / concubines as a matter of record. Update:

- both have ritualized fasting required by all adherents.

- both nurture feelings of persecution and an "us vs them" attitude in adherents.

- both resort to ad campaigns to show how "Normal" their members are when they perceive that bad publicity is damaging their standing in the community.

Mormonism is Closer to Islam than to Orthodox Christianity

1 posted on 11/26/2011 7:21:52 AM PST by greyfoxx39
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To: greyfoxx39

Have we found an issue that Gingrich has been a consistent conservative on?

Let’s wait a day or two to see if any contrary stories come out to debunk the possibility.


2 posted on 11/26/2011 7:27:18 AM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: 9YearLurker; Jim Robinson
Have we found an issue that Gingrich has been a consistent conservative on?

In the meantime, let's keep Romney's true colors front and center on FreeRepublic.

3 posted on 11/26/2011 7:31:34 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (If other churches were dead dunking mormons to save them mormons would be furious.)
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To: greyfoxx39
Romney Versus Gingrich on Jihad and Sharia: A Clear Contrast

HMMMmmm...


 

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

  • Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

  • Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

  • Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

  • As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

  • Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

  • Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

  • Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

  • Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

  • Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, believe Mohammed’s son was to be their next leader. Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith's followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith's own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

  • Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith's claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.


[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.




4 posted on 11/26/2011 7:33:30 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

Mormonic Verses Placemarker


5 posted on 11/26/2011 7:37:39 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (You know, 99.99999965% of the lawyers give all of them a bad name)
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To: greyfoxx39
- both have ritualized fasting required by all adherents.

Thank GOD that summer's over so I can eat some MEAT!!!

--MormonDude(Corn on the cob is good, but come ON!)


 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 89
 
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.
 
1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.
 
  1 A aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—
  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—
  3 Given for a principle with apromise, adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all csaints, who are or can be called saints.
  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—
  5 That inasmuch as any man adrinketh bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
  7 And, again, astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
  8 And again, tobacco is not for the abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.
  12 Yea, aflesh also of bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used csparingly;
  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.
  14 All agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
  15 And athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
  16 All grain is good for the afood of man; as also the bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—
  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ashall receive bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;
  19 And shall afind bwisdom and great ctreasures of dknowledge, even hidden treasures;
  20 And shall arun and not be bweary, and shall walk and not faint.
  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the adestroying angel shall bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.



6 posted on 11/26/2011 7:41:13 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: greyfoxx39

The list is very detailed.
It must make the partnerships that lds and islam have been forming for a couple of decades now more understandable.


7 posted on 11/26/2011 7:45:20 AM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: greyfoxx39

delivered an astute and courageous address at The American Enterprise Institute, July 29, 2010,

The link above (address)gives an error.

I believe that the speech is at this link- http://kitmantv.blogspot.com/2010/07/livestream-newt-gingrich-america-at.html


8 posted on 11/26/2011 7:48:06 AM PST by matthew fuller (I stand with Leroy!)
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To: 9YearLurker

When it comes time to pick between Mitt and Newt you will find pulling the lever for Newt will not be painful at all.


9 posted on 11/26/2011 7:49:14 AM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: greyfoxx39

Seizing the opportunity to turn any story into an anti Mormon rant. Again and again and again and with the blessing of the powers that be.

The anti Mormon dog pile consists of the same actors over and over and over. Yawn.


10 posted on 11/26/2011 8:00:18 AM PST by Saundra Duffy ( For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: 9YearLurker
Have we found an issue that Gingrich has been a consistent conservative on?

I remember 5 or so years ago Gingrich saying basically the same thing.

He was on to the Muslim threat long before the other politicians.-Tom

11 posted on 11/26/2011 8:03:34 AM PST by Capt. Tom
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To: Georgia Girl 2

A few weeks ago I thought that. But I seem to keep running ahead of the curve. I thought Cain might be the answer before he peaked too.

At this rate I’d almost be ready to circle back toward Bachmann again: she may be the only genuine, consistent, small-government conservative running. But I know she doesn’t have a shot at this point. I’m about ready to fold and be dealt some new candidates.


12 posted on 11/26/2011 8:06:10 AM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: Saundra Duffy; Religion Moderator

If anyone who is reading this article and thread is so ignorant as to believe any of this drivel then I feel sorry for you.

Islam has nothing whatsoever to do with our wonderful Savior, Jesus Christ, who suffered and died to save us from our sins.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believes that Jesus Christ is our Savior. He is the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament and the Savior and Redeemer of the New Testament. We worship, adore, and love Jesus Christ with all of our hearts.

We members of the LDS Church believe in allowing all men to worship how, where or what they may. So the folks here who worship their anti Mormon god are free to do so as far as I’m concerned.


13 posted on 11/26/2011 8:14:50 AM PST by Saundra Duffy ( For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: greyfoxx39

Herman Cain apologizes for comments about muslims

“While I stand by my opposition to the interference of shariah law into the American legal system, I remain humble and contrite for any statements I have made that might have caused offense to muslim Americans and their friends. I am truly sorry for any comments that may have betrayed my commitment to the U.S. Constitution and the freedom of religion guaranteed by it. Muslims, like all Americans, have the right to practice their faith freely and peacefully.” — Herman Cain, 07/28/2011


14 posted on 11/26/2011 8:16:42 AM PST by Lady Lucky
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To: Saundra Duffy
If anyone who is reading this article and thread is so ignorant as to believe any of this drivel then I feel sorry for you.

Well, Sandy..here are some links to articles, many posted in mormon publications that boast of the partnership between mormons and muslims.

Muslims and Latter-Day Saints
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2568726/posts
A Latter-day Saint Perspective on Mohammad
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2571152/posts

The Muslim Mormon Connection

http://mormonism.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_muslim_mormon_connection

Mormons, Muslims break the fast in Southern California

http://www.mormontimes.com/article/17754/Mormons-Muslims-break-the-fast-in-Southern-California?s_cid=newsline

"At the iftars, both Muslim and LDS leaders spoke at a brief service, after which the Muslims participated in evening prayers. Following the evening prayer, the groups met together for a meal, provided by the Muslims. There were members of other faiths at each of the dinners also, along with city officials.

In keeping with Muslim tradition, the call to prayer occurred at the time that the sun set that evening. Participants then broke their fasts with dates, bread or other simple items, before proceeding to evening prayer.

The LDS visitors were invited to observe the prayers. LDS women who attended wore head scarves, consistent with Muslim dress standards for women. After the evening prayer, the groups shared a large meal together. The dinners featured traditional Muslim foods such as lamb, couscous, rice and dates. About two dozen LDS members from each of the four stakes attended the events."


15 posted on 11/26/2011 8:23:49 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (If other churches were dead dunking mormons to save them mormons would be furious.)
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To: greyfoxx39

And now that you have listed your perceived similiarities, how about listing the differences.


16 posted on 11/26/2011 8:33:11 AM PST by UncommonJudge (Captions on for the hearing impaired.)
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To: Saundra Duffy

Out of curiosity what is the “anti-Mormon” god?

I’ll stand shoulder to shoulder with you against threats to America and against basic morality, and I love it when ANYONE claims and loves Jesus Christ (albeit in flawed and irreconcilable ways).

That said, your religion, unlike Biblical Christianity, will not stand up to outside scrutiny via objective analysis.

Blind faith will ultimately lead its adherents where all blind folks DON’T want to go, into a ditch.


17 posted on 11/26/2011 8:36:50 AM PST by jonboy
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To: Saundra Duffy
Hey Sandy, were you aware that the mormon church allows for production of ritually clean (halal) products for muslims in their canneries?

Hey Sandy, were you aware that out of respect for Islam, The church has sought to respect Islamic laws and traditions that prohibit conversion of Muslims to other faiths by adopting a policy of nonproselyting in Islamic countries of the Middle East.....but that respect isn't shown for nonproselytizing of Christians!

A Latter-day Saint Perspective on Muhammad

In recent years, respect for the spiritual legacy of Muhammad and for the religious values of the Islamic community has led to increasing contact and cooperation between Latter-day Saints and Muslims around the world. This is due in part to the presence of Latter-day Saint congregations in areas such as the Levant, North Africa, the Persian Gulf, and Southeast Asia. The Church has sought to respect Islamic laws and traditions that prohibit conversion of Muslims to other faiths by adopting a policy of nonproselyting in Islamic countries of the Middle East. Yet examples of dialogue and cooperation abound, including visits of Muslim dignitaries at Church headquarters in Salt Lake City; Muslim use of Church canning facilities to produce halal (ritually clean) food products; Church humanitarian aid and disaster relief sent to predominantly Muslim areas including Jordan, Kosovo, and Turkey; academic agreements between Brigham Young University and various educational and governmental institutions in the Islamic world; the existence of the Muslim Student Association at BYU; and expanding collaboration between the Church and Islamic organizations to safeguard traditional family values worldwide. 11 The recent initiation of the Islamic Translation Series, cosponsored by BYU and the Church, has resulted in several significant exchanges between Muslim officials and Latter-day Saint Church leaders. A Muslim ambassador to the United Nations predicted that this translation series “will play a positive role in the West’s quest for a better understanding of Islam.” 12

A cabinet minister in Egypt, aware of the common ground shared by Muslims and Latter-day Saints, once remarked to Elder Howard W. Hunter of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles that “if a bridge is ever built between Christianity and Islam it must be built by the Mormon Church.” 13 The examples of Latter-day Saint–Muslim interaction mentioned above, together with the Church’s establishment in 1989 of two major centers for educational and cultural exchange in the Middle East (Jerusalem and Amman), reflect the traditional attitude of respect for Islam that Church leaders have exhibited from earliest times. These activities represent tangible evidence of Latter-day Saint commitment to promote greater understanding of the Muslim world and witness an emerging role for the Church in helping to bridge the gap that has existed historically between Muslims and Christians.

18 posted on 11/26/2011 8:38:48 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (If other churches were dead dunking mormons to save them mormons would be furious.)
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To: Georgia Girl 2
“When it comes time to pick between Mitt and Newt you will find pulling the lever for Newt will not be painful at all.”

Choosing between Newt and Mitt is like choosing between a massive coronary and cancer.

Either man can be trusted and will sell conservatives out in a heartbeat.

19 posted on 11/26/2011 8:50:57 AM PST by bwc2221
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To: UncommonJudge
And now that you have listed your perceived similiarities, how about listing the differences.

Perceived? Most of these links are from lds sources. And I leave it to you to provide links to the "differences", since you seem to know of some.

You can start by visiting BYU and their Islamic Texts Initiative for this very glowing description of Islam.

Here

Islamic Translation Series (ITS)



The Islamic Translation Series is designed not only to further scholarship in the study of Islamic philosophy, theology, and mysticism, but, by encouraging the translation of Islamic texts into the technical language of contemporary Western scholarship, to assist in the integration of Islamic studies into Western academia and to promote global perspectives in the disciplines to which it is devoted. Islamic civilization represents nearly fourteen centuries of intense intellectual activity, and believers in Islam number in the hundreds of millions. The texts that will appear in ITS are among the treasures of this great culture. But they are more than that. They are properly the inheritance of all the peoples of the world. Brigham Young University and its Institute for the Study and Preservation of Ancient Religious Texts are pleased to sponsor the Islamic Translation Series. In doing so, we hope to serve our fellow human beings, of all creeds and cultures.

The texts that appear in this series are among the cultural treasures of the world, representing as they do the medieval efflorescence of Arabic-Islamic civilization-a civilization in which works of impressive intellectual stature were composed not only by Muslims but also by Christians, Jews, and others in a quest for knowledge that transcended religious and ethnic boundaries. Together they not only preserved the best of Greek thought but enhanced it, added to it, and built upon it a corpus of scientific and philosophical understanding that is properly the inheritance of all the peoples of the world.

20 posted on 11/26/2011 8:52:07 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (If other churches were dead dunking mormons to save them mormons would be furious.)
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To: greyfoxx39

Just more anti Mormon blah blah blah


21 posted on 11/26/2011 8:56:09 AM PST by Saundra Duffy ( For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: Capt. Tom

That’s good to hear.


22 posted on 11/26/2011 9:11:02 AM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: jonboy; Religion Moderator

Jonboy - We Mormons stood “side-by-side” with other Christians to fight for passage of Prop 8 and other conservative causes and during that time no one called us members of a cult or that we were not Christian (a/k/a “going straight to hell”). However, after the victories were won, and when it became convenient, many of these so-called Christians turned on us.

So don’t talk to me about standing side-by-side and all that drivel. If you really want to know what we believe go to www.lds.org or www.mormon.org.

Those who worship the anti Mormon god - by that I mean those who are obsessed with trashing me and my faith - have been semi successful in silencing us by their dog-pile strategies.

Most of the members of the LDS faith have been banned from posting here. There are only a couple of us left.

The dog pile continues . . .


23 posted on 11/26/2011 9:11:22 AM PST by Saundra Duffy ( For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: greyfoxx39; Elsie

We need to get a therapist who can deal with cults and deprogramming cult members because there’s no use in using logic and facts on Mormons, especially when they can’t even the acknowledge simple truths.


24 posted on 11/26/2011 9:15:04 AM PST by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: Saundra Duffy; jonboy
Most of the members of the LDS faith have been banned from posting here.

For threats of law suits and violence against other F.R. members.

Saundra Duffy - do you really believe that we have short memories?

25 posted on 11/26/2011 9:16:53 AM PST by Graybeard58 (Of course Obama loves his country but Herman Cain loves mine.)
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To: UncommonJudge

Listing the differences? Don’t hold your breath; that would hurt their cause. What is their cause? To trash The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and all of its 14 million members world-wide.

Unfortunately the deck is stacked against Mormons here on FR. Most of the Mormon FReepers have already been banned. Just a few us us left - and a few brave non LDS FReepers who support freedom of religion.


26 posted on 11/26/2011 9:19:11 AM PST by Saundra Duffy ( For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: Saundra Duffy

Noted that you too have arrived as a regular...you would do well to listen and learn some more as you have in the past. It’s hard to ‘kick against the prick Sandra’...but you’ll eventually see and understand the serious errors in Mormonism....otherwise there would be no attraction for you to be here.


27 posted on 11/26/2011 9:22:08 AM PST by caww
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To: Saundra Duffy
We members of the LDS Church believe in allowing all men to worship how, where or what they may.

Interesting comment Sandra since that is not Christ's position. Makes one wonder which side people are on when they can and do encourage others to go the wrong way and practice whatever religion they desire....and we know there are many false religions and cults to entice people into darkness...a darkness that does not reveal itself on the surface and most who fall into that darkness cannot identify it as such once they are sucked into it. Jesus spoke about that too.."the blind leading the blind"...that is what Mormonism is.

28 posted on 11/26/2011 9:30:49 AM PST by caww
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To: Capt. Tom
Newt was on to the Muslim threat long before the other politicians.

Yes indeed and he saw that politicians were not seriously looking at this threat for what it is. They still don't. The truth be known they enable and support it by not addressing it for what it is. Stealth Jihad is going to kill this nation if it's not stopped...Newt identifies it's tentacles.....and it's agenda completely.

29 posted on 11/26/2011 9:35:30 AM PST by caww
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To: caww
Interesting comment Sandra since that is not Christ's position.

He did say there's only one way, didn't He?

30 posted on 11/26/2011 9:37:05 AM PST by Graybeard58 (Of course Obama loves his country but Herman Cain loves mine.)
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To: caww

Noted that you too have arrived as a regular...you would do well to listen and learn some more as you have in the past. “It’s hard to ‘kick against the prick Sandra’...but you’ll eventually see and understand the serious errors in Mormonism....otherwise there would be no attraction for you to be here.”

What conceit you have, to think that you can crawl inside Saundra’s mind (it’s Saundra, not Sandra, get the name right) and know how she really feels about her own religion. Geez, the only prick she should kick against is you.


31 posted on 11/26/2011 9:37:16 AM PST by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: Saundra Duffy; greyfoxx39

Seizing the opportunity to turn any story about Romney into a pity party and a whoa is me statement.
Yawn


32 posted on 11/26/2011 9:38:21 AM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: flaglady47

As a Mormon, have you anything constructive to add?


33 posted on 11/26/2011 9:39:30 AM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they cannot be deceived, it's impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Saundra Duffy
And yet, you Saundra, are constantly accusing the ‘powers that be’ of being anti-mormon while you as an irrational Mormon continue to be allowed posting privileges. Don't even you see the irony in that?
34 posted on 11/26/2011 9:41:40 AM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they cannot be deceived, it's impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

“As a Mormon, have you anything constructive to add?”

Well, at least you are consistent in your lies as to my religion. It won’t work though, as right minded Freepers know otherwise. But your hatred of Mormonism overtakes any pretence to rationality.


35 posted on 11/26/2011 9:42:14 AM PST by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: bwc2221
conservatives

There is more to this election than just conservatism....and that's why people are looking for a leader who has the strength, ability and desire to attack that which has put this nation in dire straits...and closest to conservatism as possible given the nature and status of where this nation stands today....both nationally and internationally....and it's anything but good.

Newt has the wherewithal to set a course out of this quicksand and he's more than willing to rile feathers and stir up the dust to wake people up....like him or not is not his purpose....which becomes more apparent as he continues....he is set to wake people up and see where we are...not where we think we are......and it's time to see the truth.

36 posted on 11/26/2011 9:42:35 AM PST by caww
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To: greyfoxx39

That bridge is already here: Just learned of CHRISLAM yesterday, and did a Google there is much there to read and view: Here is Jack Van Impe.

http://thestrongdelusion.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1729&Itemid=9


37 posted on 11/26/2011 9:46:22 AM PST by annieokie
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To: Saundra Duffy

Hey, Sandy. How about you say what is incorrect about the statements from the author of the article when it comes to Romney.
Did he or did he not say what is being alleged?
Rather than whine about being put upon, defend Romney’s attitude against islam.
Those who are opposed to mormonISM post links, lds words, directly to lds owned sites, yet you dismiss them as a dog pile. Ok, that’s your tack, this however is a political article about political issues.
If the author is wrong about Romney, why is he wrong. Show some evidence that he is wrong.


38 posted on 11/26/2011 9:47:04 AM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: Saundra Duffy

I take it then that you do not agree with the teachings of your own religion’s prophets and ‘apostles’ as recorded in your Journal of Discourses? Would you like for me to post a few which expose your Mormonic definition of God and Jesus? ... You don’t know when to keep your trap shut, Sandy!


39 posted on 11/26/2011 9:47:11 AM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they cannot be deceived, it's impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: flaglady47

What has been said that is a lie? FR posters opposed to mormonISM post links to lds sites, to articles written by lds members, IE provide evidence.
Show a lie about lds/mormonISM that have been posted on FR that you can counter.


40 posted on 11/26/2011 9:49:29 AM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: dragonblustar

“”””they can’t even the acknowledge simple truths””””
They aren’t told the truth, and that is why it was said they are not much differant than Islam. Much at this site, put in Favorites and read, it will take you several days. Lots of former LDS speaking out.

http://1857massacre.com/MMM/mormon_underwear.htm


41 posted on 11/26/2011 9:50:33 AM PST by annieokie
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To: svcw

What has been said that is a lie? FR posters opposed to mormonISM post links to lds sites, to articles written by lds members, IE provide evidence.
Show a lie about lds/mormonISM that have been posted on FR that you can counter.

Geez, put your specs on and read, for heaven sakes. I said the poster was lying about my being a Mormon, when I am a Catholic, you dunderhead. Good grief, time to go get on a sane thread, and this isn’t one of them. Au revoir.


42 posted on 11/26/2011 9:53:23 AM PST by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: dragonblustar
there’s no use in using logic and facts on Mormons, especially when they can’t even the acknowledge simple truths.

Not necessarily so dragon....though it's a frustrating endeavor at times...there are some who God has set their hearts to know what really is the truth and it is those who see these threads and consider when they see the truth. It is his work to wake them out of their darkness....

Amazingly they all attempt to return here knowing quite well how Mormonism is viewed.....so what's the attraction ? When truth is revealed it alone attracts even when some might fight against it...like those sitting in a pew holding on tightly when an invitation is given...until their knuckles turn white. We have those here from time to time...white knuckles and all...but they are at the very least exposed to the truth and in God's timing will yield to it as He moves within them to see....for blindess is removed by the hand of God ....and we do pray that the blinders will fall away before it's too late.

43 posted on 11/26/2011 9:53:52 AM PST by caww
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To: flaglady47
Mormonism is demonic in origin. We know this because it teaches a different god and a different jesus than are found in the Bible. That you Mormons consistently mischaracterize your beliefs by hiding the real teachings so that we non-Mormons have to dig them out of your Journal of Discourses and post them in refutation of your non-Christian religion seems to irk you into spittling these posts. Would you like a few direct quotes from the Jornal of Discourses teaching the blasphemies and heretical drek of Mormonism?

Exposing the blasphemies and heresies at the heart of Mormonism is defined as hatefest by you poor deluded souls. Yet you still do not awaken to the truths shared over and over and over with you.

44 posted on 11/26/2011 9:55:30 AM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they cannot be deceived, it's impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Elsie
I appreciate the work you do on this subject. There is another CULT that come on the scene, "Crislam". The blending of Christianity and Islam.

Cults you must make a decision soon, many in the threads like this are simply trying to HELP you. If you refuse to be enlightened to the true WORD of G-d, well, I'm just sorry for you. G-d will not be mocked, and there is only one way to him through Jesus Christ and not a Joseph Smith or B. Young or any other nonsense speaking anti christ. The true WORD of G-d gospel has been around for over 2000 years, HE don't need any help with a fantasy book made up by some criminal.

45 posted on 11/26/2011 9:59:32 AM PST by annieokie
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To: flaglady47

Nothing to do with conceit flaglady...rather confidence in the power and heart of the Almighty.. that He can and does go after His lost sheep and brings them back to His flock when they have been led astray...for he Truly cares for them and will be relentless at bringing them out of the thicket. He is not called “the hound of heaven” for nothing.

Most of those who have dealt with people caught in the darkness of false teachings and occults, yes, can identify when an individual is or not receptive to God’s leading them out...and the truth. Some are closer than others.


46 posted on 11/26/2011 10:02:19 AM PST by caww
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To: MHGinTN; caww

Buzz off sickos. I’m on another sane thread now, and don’t wish to revisit this one again, so this is goodbye, if you understand the concept of that word.


47 posted on 11/26/2011 10:07:06 AM PST by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: flaglady47

And what lies are those? Since actual words and scripture are used I assume you mean the lies of the LDS.

Glad you are starting to see the light...


48 posted on 11/26/2011 10:09:02 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: flaglady47
So, as a supposed 'devout Catholic' you are just fine with the following blasphemies and hereical teachings from Mormonism which are antithetical to Christianity? ...

"We may talk of men being redeemed by the efficacy of his [Christ's] blood; but the truth is that that blood has no efficacy to wash away our sins. That must depend upon our own action." [ LDS Apostle Amasa M. Lyman, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 299, 1859]

Given this mormonic teaching that is the very essence of Antichrist, it is still amazing how much LDS inc apologists want folks to believe LDS inc is Christianity restored! MormonISM is the very essence of slick anti-Christ inveigling, and the promoters of this anti-Christian religion will continue to be exposed and opposed so long as Christians are not squelched by the political correctness approach inherent in the lie that exposing mormonISM is hate or hatred of the people trapped in this demonic cult.

The following will clarify why the Journal of Discourses can be seen as a reflection of Mormonic beliefs:

“The Journal of Discourses deservedly ranks as one of the standard works of the Church, and every rightminded Saint will certainly welcome with joy every number (issue) as it comes forth.“ (President George Q. Cannon, Journal of Discourses, Preface, Volume 8.)

“Each successive Volume of these Discourses is a rich mine of wealth, containing gems of great value, and the diligent seeker will find ample reward for his labor. After the fathers and mothers of this generation have made them the study of their lives their children’s children will find that they are still unexhausted, and rejoice that this Record has been handed down from their fathers to also aid them in following the way of life .” (Apostle Orson Pratt, Preface. Volume 3.)

“It is impossible to give monetary value to the past volumes of this publication, … Those who read the utterances of the servants of God, contained in this book, under the same influence by which the speakers were inspired, cannot fail to receive profit from the perusal.” (President Joseph F. Smith, Preface, Volume 18.)

“We take great pleasure in presenting to the Saints and the world the … the Journal of Discourses, which they will find contains rich treasures of information concerning the glorious principles of Eternal Life, as revealed through God’s anointed servants in these last days. All who read the discourses contained in this Volume are earnestly recommended to adapt them to their lives by practice, and we can confidently assure them that, in doing so, they are laying up a store of knowledge that will save and exalt them in the Celestial kingdom.” (Apostle Albert Carrington, Journal of Discourses, Preface, Volume 15.)

As a good Catholic you are aware that Mormonism claims through the years that ALL of Christendom (all those centuries when The Catholic Church was protector of Christian teaching) was in apostasy since the second century until Joseph Smith supposedly restored ‘true christianity’ to the human family:

And the following are but a few examples of the heresies at the heart of Mormonism:
First, reagrding the Mormonic god the father and his having earned the attributes of godhood after being sired by a still older god, etc:

"We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father; and so on, from generation to generation, ... we wonder in our minds, how far back the genealogy extends, and how the first world was formed, and the first father was begotten" (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p.132).

"Some people are troubled over the statements of the Prophet Joseph Smith.... The matter that seems such a mystery is the statement that our Father in heaven at one time passed through a life and death and is an exalted man. This is one of the mysteries.... The Prophet taught that our Father had a Father and so on. Is not this a reasonable thought, especially when we remember that the promises are made to us that we may become like him?" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp.10, 12).

And now a little drek regarding the Mormonic nature of the Mormon jesus:

"Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee...We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into relation whereby he could see his seed [children] before he was crucified (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 82).

"There was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and on a careful reading of that transaction, it will be discovered that non less a person that Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha an the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the best of it." (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 259).

"In the Church councils, it was spoken of: "Joseph F. Smith_ He spoke upon the marriage in Cana of Galilee. He thought Jesus was the bridegroom and Mary and Martha the brides."(Journal of Wilford Woodruff, July 22, 1883).

"The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were Mormons (Jedediah Grant, Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 346)

. "One thing is certain, that there were several holy women that great loved Jesus, such as Mary and Martha her sister, and Mary Magdalene; and Jesus greatly loved them and associated with the much; and when he arose from the dead, instead of first showing himself to his chosen witnesses, the Apostles, He appeared first to these women, or at least to one of them--namely, Mary Magdalene. Now, it would be very natural for a husband in the resurrection to appear first to his own dear wives, and afterwards show himself to his other friends. If all the acts of Jesus were written, we no doubt should learn that these beloved women were his wives." (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 159).

Perhaps the few quotes I've offered can instruct you as to why The Catholic Chruch does not recognize Mormonic baptism ... Mormonism is not Christianity and teaches the antithesis of Christianity. As a 'good Catholic' do you still want to defend that drek? I'm referring specifically to the blasphemies and heretical teachings of MormonISM, not the poor souls caught in the demonic drek. If you have no love for their souls, so be it, but at least know why The Catholic Church does not recognize Mormon ISM as Cristianity.

49 posted on 11/26/2011 10:13:25 AM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they cannot be deceived, it's impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN
Exposing the blasphemies and heresies at the heart of Mormonism is defined as hatefest by you poor deluded souls. Yet you still do not awaken to the truths shared over and over and over with you.

That's true...they resist at great lengths and part of the process in which they are being led out....that's of course why these teachings and practices of Mormoinsm are "strongholds"...the enemy of men's souls does not let loose easily...sometimes it's a chipping away of the walls of deception and other times it's breaking thru the false-front some hide behind.....and sometimes both at once.

Sadly some will never yield to the truth nor to Gods hands moving their hearts and minds....they of course will one day find themselves lost forever...and more than a sad day for that once they yield to the great deception yet to come... which Mormonism is a taste of just how deceptive those times will be.

50 posted on 11/26/2011 10:15:59 AM PST by caww
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