More boat trouble for Norway Navy

The Foreigner, Norway ^ | 17th November, 2011

[Travis McGee]

Check out the 5 minute video at the link above, it’s really very impressive.

[blueunicorn6]

Those norskis can hide all they want. You can smell creamed herring from a hundred miles away. Just build a missile that tracks creamed herring and the Norwegian Navy is toast.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks TM.

http://www.google.com/images?q=SKJOLD+class&sa=X&oi=image_result_group

[SunkenCiv]

That’s interesting:

Styx vs Gabriel:

http://www.shipwrecksofegypt.com/northcoast/AB/battleofbaltim.html

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/flotilla.html

sidebar, Syrian Osa boats used to fire on protests in Latakia:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2011/08/201181475734965763.html

[GeronL]

bump

thanks for the input

[Travis McGee]

Those missile boat battles in 1973 are still studied for their many lessons.

Chief among them, longer range missiles don’t always win, not by a long shot!

And, don’t ever count the Israelis out. They are very smart, and their backs are to the wall.

[Travis McGee]

This is a passion of mine.

[archy]

Who would waste a cruise missile on a boat that small?

Who would need to, if they had a 9M123 Khrizantema or 9M133 AT-14 Kornet-D launcher aboard? Six KM range with either a millimeter wave radar seeker or SACLOS laser beam riding guidance system and fire and forget guidance tracking that allows simultaneous engagement of multiple targets.

The missile and launch systems were designed to take out main battle tanks, so the thin-skinned boat hulls wouldn't be much of a problem for a Kornet which system was successfully used by Iraqi launch teams to disabling "at least two Abrams tanks and one Bradley armored troop carrier in the opening week of the war" and which the Israelis reported in 2010 penetrated the armour of a Merkava Mark III tank on the Israeli side of the Gaza strip border.

[archy]

Who would waste a cruise missile on a boat that small?

Who would need to, if they had a 9M123 Khrizantema or 9M133 AT-14 Kornet-D launcher aboard? Six KM range with either a millimeter wave radar seeker or SACLOS laser beam riding guidance system and fire and forget guidance tracking that allows simultaneous engagement of multiple targets.

The missile and launch systems were designed to take out main battle tanks, so the thin-skinned boat hulls wouldn't be much of a problem for a Kornet which system was successfully used by Iraqi launch teams to disabling "at least two Abrams tanks and one Bradley armored troop carrier in the opening week of the war" and which the Israelis reported in 2010 penetrated the armour of a Merkava Mark III tank on the Israeli side of the Gaza strip border.

[archy]

From the side, the profile looks similar to the old WW II PT boats..

They don't look as much like a WWII-era US PT as the earlier Norwegian Tjeld class motor torpedo boats, which not only carried four 21-inch torpedo tubes, but were also eventually purchased by the U.S. Navy [around 20, plus variants] to become the US PTF, generally known as the Nasty boats. Used in Vietnam, particularly during the Desoto *brown water Navy* patrols, there's also a sort-of confirmed rumor that there were also two or four CIA Nasty boats as well.

At 80 feet for the Tjeld/Nasty/PCF versus 80 feet for the Elco PT or the Higgins 78-footer, their sizes. layout and general appearance was similar.

Tjeld Class MTB

PT 658, WWII Higgins PT Boat

[archy]

This is a passion of mine.

I knew that. We forgive you.

[Travis McGee]

Profiles can sure be deceiving. From the front, the surface effect ship bow is obvious. From above, they look like a shoe box. In the water are just two thin cat hulls, lifted up on a cushion of air.

[ken5050]

Many thanks for all your knowledgable info, and the pics...

Pleasant thread..a nice change from all the political BD today..

[Travis McGee]

The reason I'm onto this, other than my general love of small sea-going vessels, is that an old Norwegian "Storm" class PB figures in my next novel.

These 120 footers were designed in the 1960s, and sport either a 76mm or 57mm rapid fire gun forward, and formerly carried 4 Penguin anti-ship missiles in cannisters aft. They still carry Bofors 40mm guns aft as secondary armament. A few of them were sold to countries like Latvia, where this one is evidently still in service doing coast guard work.

In my new book, one of these old Storms has been trasferred to some shady NGO ostensibly for UN humanitarian coast guard work along the coast of West Africa, but it us used for other more nefarious purposes.

I found out about the new Skjold class surface effect ships while looking around the internet for a suitable patrol boat for my novel.

[Quick Shot]

The US Government built a version of this hull in the 1974. Interesting systems and better propulsion (more efficient than jets). Other than the prototype nothing else happened. Was involved in the early ‘80’s with a fishing version, had many issues. The Norwegians use them for very good ferry vessels, but have the reputation as barf machines. The ride control is critical, and the Norwegians are the best at it.

[Travis McGee]

Take 5 minutes and watch the excellent promo video linked at #5.

A smoother ride offshore is one of this SES vessel’s selling points.

[Quick Shot]

I agree, when right they are incredible. In the Sportfish version in certain seas we could drink beer at 50 knots, when the 54 Bertrams were getting beat to a pulp at 30.
They are very susceptible to varying sea state and wave length. The Norwegian ride control systems have solved most of this, in most operating conditions.
We did see a problem when the wave length is a little less than twice the length, had to be careful going up and over one, and turning to submarine mode in the next wave( and people maintain momentum while stopping in what ever is in front of them). Weight to horse power nothing beats them in a standard seaway.

[ken5050]

Have you ever come across a German E-boat..what I've read about them says they were awesome craft. I think there is one left..being restored somewheres..

Going to give my girlfriend your URL...I read a few pages of your first book..tell her I want your 3 books for a stocking stuffer..and do let me know when the latest one is published..

Just wondering..as as author..what books shaped you.

To me, the two finest works of WW II naval fiction are

1. Alistair McClean's "HMS Ulysses"...I can't stand his later stuff, but this is superb.

2. Nicholas Monserrat's "The Cruel Sea"...first tiem I picked it up..years ago..couldn't put it down...spend the weekend on the couch...reading..

David Poyer's pretty good...

[Travis McGee]

You are referring to a cat hulled sportfisher, correct?

The SES boats retain the advantages of the narrow cat hulls, with half the wetted surface for the same length due to the air pressure between the hulls and skirts lifting the boat. In the case of the Skjold, they draw 2m at rest, and only 1m at speed on the air cushion. The cushion also dampens the wave slam, which can be nasty on a cat between the hulls.

[Travis McGee]

The e-boats were the allied name for the german s-boats, or schnell boats. These were wood hulled, 110’ long, and very fast at 45 kts. Quite a bit bigger than our PTs or the British MTBs.

The Storm class were steel hulled, and 120’ long. There were versions with torpedos, but there were also versions carrying Penguin anti-ship missiles instead, making them one of the first ship-killing fast patrol boats.