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How the U.S. Lost Out on iPhone Work
New York Times ^ | January 21, 2012 | By CHARLES DUHIGG and KEITH BRADSHER

Posted on 01/22/2012 4:48:02 PM PST by Vince Ferrer

When Barack Obama joined Silicon Valley’s top luminaries for dinner in California last February, each guest was asked to come with a question for the president.

But as Steven P. Jobs of Apple spoke, President Obama interrupted with an inquiry of his own: what would it take to make iPhones in the United States?

Mr. Jobs’s reply was unambiguous. “Those jobs aren’t coming back,” he said, according to another dinner guest.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: apple; employment; iphone; jobs; manufacturing; obama; stevejobs; telecom; unemployment; unions; unionthugs
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1 posted on 01/22/2012 4:48:08 PM PST by Vince Ferrer
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To: Vince Ferrer
Slave labor is so much more convenient than that of a free people.
2 posted on 01/22/2012 4:49:22 PM PST by Joe the Pimpernel (Too many lawmakers, too many laws, too many lawyers.)
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To: Vince Ferrer
But as Steven P. Jobs of Apple spoke, President Obama interrupted with an inquiry of his own: what would it take to make iPhones in the United States?

There are times when I think Obama is some sort of evil genius who knows exactly what he is doing to try and destroy this nation.

And then I read a statement like this that makes Joe Biden look like Aristotle by comparison. Good grief. Has there ever been a dumber question coming from a president?

3 posted on 01/22/2012 4:51:44 PM PST by newheart (When does policy become treason?)
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To: Vince Ferrer
President Obama interrupted with an inquiry of his own: what would it take to make iPhones in the United States?

OMG. Steve Job's "reality distortion field" meets Obamas.

Did Steve Jobs faint?

Did he say, "Sorry, union labor can't compete?"

Doubt that very much.

4 posted on 01/22/2012 4:51:56 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (religion + guns = liberty.)
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To: Vince Ferrer

I’m not logging in to NYT...


5 posted on 01/22/2012 4:52:27 PM PST by null and void (Day 1097 of America's ObamaVacation from reality [Heroes aren't made, Frank, they're cornered...])
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To: newheart
And then I read a statement like this that makes Joe Biden look like Aristotle by comparison. Good grief. Has there ever been a dumber question coming from a president?

Every entertainer knows that the mental age of a crowd is somewhere in the range of the pubescent. It was a moment scripted for the masses.

6 posted on 01/22/2012 4:53:29 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (religion + guns = liberty.)
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To: Vince Ferrer

Why post an article I can’t access .....?

I must sign in to the NYT to read the article


7 posted on 01/22/2012 4:53:52 PM PST by Popman (Obama is God's curse upon the land....)
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To: null and void

me either


8 posted on 01/22/2012 4:54:19 PM PST by jmax
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To: null and void

You don’t have to. Just copy the title of the article and paste it into Google. The link will come up, click it and the article will be there for the reading.


9 posted on 01/22/2012 4:54:46 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Vince Ferrer

Sure, electronics would be real competative with union labor rates, massive oppressive regulations, the highest and the corporate tax rate in the free world. Everyone would want a $5,000 IPhone.


10 posted on 01/22/2012 4:55:40 PM PST by Proud2BeRight
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To: Vince Ferrer
Related...
11 posted on 01/22/2012 4:56:07 PM PST by Keith in Iowa (Willard Romney, purveyor of the world's finest bullmit. | FR Class of 1998 |)
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To: Joe the Pimpernel

It is not slave labor. It becomes that only because people see the wages of workers over seas and compare it to cost of living in the US, cost of living are not comparable.
Sorry, I do not want to $5,000 for my iPhone.


12 posted on 01/22/2012 4:57:34 PM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: null and void
I’m not logging in to NYT...

I didn't have to log into the NYT in order to read the article. I have to excerpt here on FR from the Times, but it is a good long article.

13 posted on 01/22/2012 4:57:51 PM PST by Vince Ferrer
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To: null and void

Cut and paste the title into google and it comes up without having to login. Its what I always do.


14 posted on 01/22/2012 4:58:21 PM PST by packrat35 (When will we admit we are now almost a police state?)
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To: Vince Ferrer
So long as iPhones are not made within the United States, Apple has complete control over the price for the phones. If they were made here, then others could import greymarket phones from overseas and undercut the Apple approved price.

The Costco/Omega decision is why iPhones or any Apple product will never be made in the US again. This is also how Apple killed the clone makers who'd purchase legal Apple roms and Apple software and use their own hardware - once Apple moved production fully overseas, they no longer were subject to the first purchase doctrine.

And get ready for it to start happening with DVDs, CDs and other media products (including books...) Right now, you are permitted to buy a DVD and then resell it as you please. Any limitations end with the first purchase. That will end soon enough. Especially with the lovely SCOTUS decision which enforces foreign copyright on works that are legally public domain in the US.

Then again, the idiot SCOTUS decision that defines ‘for a limited time’ as meaning whatever Congress desires, including 170 years or more, and retroactive copyright extensions, the whole mess is an utter disaster and completely unconstitutional.

15 posted on 01/22/2012 4:58:41 PM PST by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: svcw

Yes it is when workers are essentially made to live at the plant to be available to work 24 hours a day. Read the story again and see.


16 posted on 01/22/2012 4:59:52 PM PST by packrat35 (When will we admit we are now almost a police state?)
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To: Joe the Pimpernel

And much, much cheaper. No benefits, etc. And some Chinese factories are probably paying 50 cents an hour or less.

And so America is quickly being turned into third-world.

When there are few workers, and virtually no tax revenue, America will implode financially.

I don’t say this with joy; but with sadness and trepidation.


17 posted on 01/22/2012 5:04:51 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: kingu

>> once Apple moved production fully overseas, they no longer were subject to the first purchase doctrine. &etc

Interesting insight. Thanks.


18 posted on 01/22/2012 5:05:38 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: svcw
Apple executives say that going overseas, at this point, is their only option. One former executive described how the company relied upon a Chinese factory to revamp iPhone manufacturing just weeks before the device was due on shelves. Apple had redesigned the iPhone’s screen at the last minute, forcing an assembly line overhaul. New screens began arriving at the plant near midnight.

A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company’s dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day.

That's not slave labor. they got a biscuit and a cup of tea for gosh sakes.

19 posted on 01/22/2012 5:06:52 PM PST by Leroy S. Mort
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To: Vince Ferrer

That was the wrong question to ask, “How can we get Apple to produce their products in the States.”

The right question is, “How do we create the right conditions, so that companies want to create jobs in the States.”

You might lose Apple, even with the best circumstances, but you might gain 5,000 other companies and start-ups as a consequence of having the best environment to helping companies succeed.


20 posted on 01/22/2012 5:11:51 PM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Vince Ferrer; word_warrior_bob; risen_feenix; EnglishCon; Bill W was a conservative; verga; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.


21 posted on 01/22/2012 5:16:09 PM PST by narses
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To: Joe the Pimpernel
Slave labor is so much more convenient than that of a free people.

Spoken like a true, mindless occupy something doofus.
It need not be slave labor. If labor/cost of living is half of what it is in the union-controlled US, foreign labor can substantially increase their income/standard of living AND the consumer gets to afford the product.

To me, it's a win-win.

If "slave labor" offends you, don't buy one. See? Not complicated.

22 posted on 01/22/2012 5:17:17 PM PST by Publius6961 (My world was lovely, until it was taken over by parasites.)
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To: F15Eagle

If China invented electronics, she will never teach foreign nations how to do it. Thus if a foreign nation wanted to modernize and have some electronics, the only nation in the world that can make one for his country is China. That is how China will preserve their advantage in the world. Look at centuries of profit and power derived from silk.
Only an American businessman will think about himself first, himself second and himself third will embark on a self destructive and nation destructive course of profits at all costs. Of course the gov cannot stop him because he uses his money to lobby Congress to get out of the way. Working in tandem with him is Wall Street inventing paper investments on his company, leveraging, derivatives and etc till the system implodes. Producing nothing, manufacturing nothing except misery for Main Street Americans. All this will stop in my children’s lifetime. Revolution and transforming this nation like we did during the Industrial Revolution. There was a time the 1 percent created jobs and products, today they work with gov to produce paper and financial bubbles enriching themselves and destroying the lives of the middle class.


23 posted on 01/22/2012 5:28:59 PM PST by Fee
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To: Jack Hydrazine
I’m not logging in to NYT...

You don’t have to. Just copy the title of the article and paste it into Google. The link will come up, click it and the article will be there for the reading.

Great tip! It works. Need to remember this for the future. Thank you very much!!!!

24 posted on 01/22/2012 5:32:06 PM PST by rawhide
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To: Jonty30

I found the most frightening thing in the article to be that no one can just wave a magic wand and “bring manufacturing back”, because there is no infrastructure and no supply chain here for manufacturing anymore; there also no reasonably educated working class willing (or even competent) to get its hands dirty here. The only things that are “protected” in the US are things of too low of a value per pound to be shipped, plain and simple.

The end result is that there will be less wealth for the US in the future, and no politician or party of politicians can fix this in four years. A statesman could put the wheels in motion to repair the damage in a generation or two, but we don’t have any statesmen anymore, either.


25 posted on 01/22/2012 5:38:40 PM PST by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: Joe the Pimpernel
Where is you computer made? Where are its components made? Just wondering.
26 posted on 01/22/2012 5:38:58 PM PST by starlifter (Pullum sapit)
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To: Publius6961
Spoken like a true, mindless occupy something doofus.

Spoken like a true, mindless doofus who doesn't read the article.

China put a squadron of engineers at their disposal 24/7 in an on-site dormitory.

FoxConn has people jumping out of windows to escape their 20-hour per day jobs.

But you just go on and act like that's free-market capitalism if you think it makes you seem smart.

27 posted on 01/22/2012 5:41:15 PM PST by Joe the Pimpernel (Too many lawmakers, too many laws, too many lawyers.)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
You don’t have to. Just copy the title of the article and paste it into Google. The link will come up, click it and the article will be there for the reading.

It is a real pain in the ass to lower security on your web browser to read their drivel..

28 posted on 01/22/2012 5:50:18 PM PST by EVO X
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To: starlifter
I take it you approve of Chicom "free enterprise?"

My only point.

To say that we are inferior because of unions is one thing.

To say that we are inferior because we don't treat people like the ChiComs do is quite another.

29 posted on 01/22/2012 5:51:22 PM PST by Joe the Pimpernel (Too many lawmakers, too many laws, too many lawyers.)
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To: The Antiyuppie

Yes, there are obstacles and difficulties.

But they can be overcome, by a willingness to do the right things. For ex. China had nothing along the lines of a modern economy. Their economy 40 years ago, in many ways was the same economy from 1,000 years ago. But the Chinese government started doing the right things, economically speaking and now they have all the technological companies. Because China has gone too cheap, it will probably come back to haunt them at some point, due to a degraded environment and such.

Things can get turned around in the States as well, but the first step is to get government out of the way.


30 posted on 01/22/2012 5:59:15 PM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Joe the Pimpernel; All
Slave labor is so much more convenient than that of a free people.

You sound like a union apologist. Reality is deeper than that.

In his career, Steve Jobs made considerable effort to build his products here. There's a long history of attempts but ultimately America's manufacturing base just isn't competitive enough. It's lazy and spartan.

Consider the iPhone, we now know when he rejected the scratchable plastic screen on his prototype in favor of glass. His directive could not be handled in the U.S. because American manufacturing moves at the speed of molasses and can't raise an army of 30,000 workers at the drop of a hat. China has that capacity. Asia has worked hard to build a competency in electronics manufacturing that we haven't cared to.

In the past 15 years, Jobs had many choice words for our "education" system and teacher unions as well.

31 posted on 01/22/2012 6:02:37 PM PST by newzjunkey (Next up "winner-take-all" FL ... we must derail Romney's inevitability.)
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To: svcw

The only thing that was cheap in China was food and counterfeit products.

Fuel and medicine are at market prices.

The average Chinaman makes about 3000 Yuan a month. About $80.00 US. There are many who make more, and they are the progeny of the intelligentsia, and government officials.

I got into an argument with my Chinese counterparts about good engineering practices when I blew a gasket on them and told them not to talk to me about good engineering practices. While we were putting men on the moon they were making pig iron using cow $h!t for fuel in the end neither one were good for anything.


32 posted on 01/22/2012 6:08:47 PM PST by Ouderkirk (Democrats...the party of Slavery, Segregation, Sodomy, and Sedition)
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To: Ouderkirk

I have a friend currently in China teaching English.
She and her roommate have a 2/2 with patio for about $20 US a month.
Her roommate makes $.75 US per hour, all other expenses are within the a normal ratio.
So that’s my experience, yours is really very different.
My husband works with Chinese nationals at his job in the US, and their education is equal to the people at his job.
So there must be great disparity in the country.


33 posted on 01/22/2012 6:16:42 PM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: newzjunkey
You sound like a union apologist. Reality is deeper than that.

Quite the opposite, actually.

I quite agree that American productivity is inferior because of unions.

I don't agree that we are inferior because we don't treat labor like the ChiComs do.

You are intelligent enough to discern the difference there, aren't you?

34 posted on 01/22/2012 6:34:52 PM PST by Joe the Pimpernel (Too many lawmakers, too many laws, too many lawyers.)
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To: svcw

The basics of life are very cheap there indeed. Fuel and pharmacuticals are at world market prices.

I have two issues with their engineers.

1) is that there is no history of good engineering. Their experience is less than 15 years tin total and most of these guys are in their early 20’s. there is no documentation of engineering changes, they just do them. When questioned about where the support for such a change, the test case and test summary report, you get fluff. When the parts are out of spec or simply don’t work, it is virtually impossible to isolate the cause.

2) The culture is at its base duplicitous. There is no honor, no shame. In dealing with westerners in business, they will constantly try to skirt the terms of the contract. Rather than just do as the contract stipulates, and things would go smoothly, they are constantly trying to get over on you. It is unrelenting, and tiring.


35 posted on 01/22/2012 6:38:55 PM PST by Ouderkirk (Democrats...the party of Slavery, Segregation, Sodomy, and Sedition)
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To: svcw

Obama would probably expect Apple to suck up the difference just to make him look good.


36 posted on 01/22/2012 7:06:29 PM PST by rbg81
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To: Joe the Pimpernel

what slave labor? The pay in china are excellent


37 posted on 01/22/2012 7:20:45 PM PST by 4rcane
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To: Joe the Pimpernel
Where is you computer made? Where are its components made? Just wondering.
38 posted on 01/22/2012 7:22:33 PM PST by starlifter (Pullum sapit)
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To: Popman

Try www.bugmenot.com

You don’t have to sign in or register with The New York Times or most other publications.


39 posted on 01/22/2012 7:53:07 PM PST by july4thfreedomfoundation (The "Occupy Wall Street" losers should try occupying their local employment office. GET A JOB!)
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To: Joe the Pimpernel
You are intelligent enough to discern the difference there, aren't you?

There has to be a middle ground between UAW labor on one hand, and Chinese slave labor on the other.

The UAW represents theft of the investor class, the Chinese way is the theft of the worker. Both are immoral.

40 posted on 01/22/2012 8:00:04 PM PST by Last Dakotan
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To: newheart
Has there ever been a dumber question coming from a president?

Undoubtedly the answer is yes. Since it took a long article to answer the question of why we don't make iPhones in the US, it probably wasn't such a dumb question.

41 posted on 01/22/2012 8:24:26 PM PST by wideminded
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To: svcw

////quote//// Her roommate makes $.75 US per hour, ////unquote///

75 CENTS? Is that a decimal?


42 posted on 01/22/2012 8:47:17 PM PST by zorro8987
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To: Ouderkirk

////quote//// There is no honor, no shame ///unquote///

So back in the olden days they would try to “save face” because of honor, and now they aren’t like that anymore? I guess that’s what it is — they’re not traditional anymore?


43 posted on 01/22/2012 8:49:21 PM PST by zorro8987
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To: Ouderkirk

////quote//// There is no honor, no shame ///unquote///

So back in the olden days they would try to “save face” because of honor, and now they aren’t like that anymore? I guess that’s what it is — they’re not traditional anymore?

Hm well I guess it could also be that they now consider us to be their enemies. (?)


44 posted on 01/22/2012 8:52:36 PM PST by zorro8987
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To: zorro8987

Yes, but the rent on the apartment is only $20 US($10 each) a month.
So she is making $.75 X 40 X 4.3= $129 US a month. Proportionality she is loaded.


45 posted on 01/22/2012 8:54:08 PM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: Ouderkirk

Uh-oh. Sorry about that double post. I am interested in this because a few years ago I almost signed a contract to work for a Chinese employer. He had factories in China and was branching out to the USA. I was excited about the prospect of travelling back and forth with them.


46 posted on 01/22/2012 8:56:07 PM PST by zorro8987
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To: Vince Ferrer

The only solution to the Chinese labor problem - or any slave-labor competition, because that’s exactly what it is no matter how it’s dressed up - is to have an entire WORLD based on the principles of the founding American documents, specifically the Constitution BEFORE, and NOT including, the 14th Amendment.

You say it can’t be done in America, let alone the world?

I say you’re arguing about whether there’s an alternative to cutting off fuel or oxygen to put out a fire. There isn’t. If you don’t cut off fuel or oxygen, the fire blazes out of control until it consumes everything in its reach - period.

And let me tell you who knows this very clearly: the people who run governments (slave and not-slave), and the people who run large multinational corporations.

They know EXACTLY what would solve this labor problem, and they are doing everything they can to make sure that solution is not even recognized when it sits in plain sight.

“For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.” - Eph 6:12

That’s why the most common reaction to my pointing out the obvious in this post will be instant dismissal on the grounds of naivete - that’s the result of the efforts of evil to block acceptance of the truth.

But the Founders of America were basing their government structure on the laws of God, not human cleverness. Which, paradoxically, is why those laws declare humanity irrevocably free, and government dependent upon that inviolate freedom.

Which is also why, before God, to argue for any other “solution” is to argue about what stops a fire - irrelevent. Whether in fire or freedom, the Divine law is either obeyed, or not, with inescapable, absolute results for whatever path is chosen.

“Be not deceived; God is not mocked. For whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.” - Galatians 6:7

So since what we are actually watching is an attempt to enslave the whole world, the only real question is whether God will allow contempt for the Divine law of freedom to proceed to complete destruction - or not.

If not, then there WILL be a Divine intervention, if we can’t straighten ourselves out in time.


47 posted on 01/22/2012 9:32:05 PM PST by Talisker (Apology accepted, Captain Needa.)
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To: Talisker
Here's the text of the 14th Amendment. What do you object to?

“Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.”

48 posted on 01/22/2012 9:52:29 PM PST by starlifter (Pullum sapit)
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To: The Antiyuppie
...there is no infrastructure and no supply chain here for manufacturing anymore;

Where is aspirin made?

An expose in the New York Times Magazine (Nov. 2, 2008) revealed that there are no major generic aspirin manufacturers in Europe or the U.S. Most aspirin is now made in China.

Many over-the-counter medications as well as prescription drugs now come from manufacturers in China, India or other parts of Asia. If country of origin labeling is important for clothing and food, why wouldn’t it be even more critical for medicine?

49 posted on 01/22/2012 9:57:01 PM PST by MamaDearest
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To: Jonty30; All
Their economy 40 years ago, in many ways was the same economy from 1,000 years ago. But the Chinese government started doing the right things, economically speaking and now they have all the technological companies.

That's a key point.

China was backward, a few decades ago, living like they did 1000 years ago. Now they make most of things we use including smart phones , computers and have all the technology,rising middle class etc. China did it by stealing the U.S. technology and stealing the U.S. market. Why do we keep allowing this? We could still turn the tables on China and so grow like they did. We have to stop what they are doing to us, and the only way is to restrict things coming in from china.let's say the U.S. bans import of cell phones. You know then companies will have to build factories here ( like Japan did for Toyota etc) .And that will bring jobs, technology , manufacturing ability back to the U.S.. China is destroying the U.S.

here is proof of the U.S. decline .

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2832195/posts

U.S. lost at least 15 million jobs in the last 10 years due to China.We have no jobs just welfare , and debt.

50 posted on 01/23/2012 1:01:35 AM PST by Democrat_media (China is destroying all our jobs and manufacturing ability. China makes everything.)
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