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THE DAWN OF THE ENERGY AGE
South Coast Today/ Middleboro Gazette ^ | February 09, 2012 3:35 PM | Mark Belanger

Posted on 02/11/2012 8:31:52 AM PST by Kevmo

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To: Kevmo
Andrea Rossi's Leonardo Corp has the E-Cat ...

Just another regurgitation of the Rossi scam copy and pasted by Kevmo. Same vomit, different day.

21 posted on 02/11/2012 10:10:08 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: rockrr

Add my magnets around the gas line and wear this special bracelet and you’ll get 300 mpg unless the black helicopters show up.


22 posted on 02/11/2012 10:20:58 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray

Your ignorance is showing. Go here and wise up:

http://www.lenr-canr.org/LibFrame1.html


23 posted on 02/11/2012 11:07:12 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Kevmo

Kind of a strange article

10 parts hyperbole - zero parts science.


24 posted on 02/11/2012 12:52:00 PM PST by Eldon Tyrell (question,.)
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To: Kevmo

Back in the 1950s, there were articles stating that nuclear energy would be so cheap that we wouldn’t need to meter electricity any more, and our power could be generated by the nuclear potential found in a glass of water.

Back in the 2010s, there were articles stating that wind and solar power would give us a near-limitless and potentially pollution-free source of energy that would allow each homeowner to work “off the grid” and bring the cost of energy down to nearly nothing.

I’m detecting a pattern of wish fulfillment here. Hey, maybe it’s true. I’ll order one from Amazon. Until then, though, I’m remaining skeptical.


25 posted on 02/11/2012 1:29:32 PM PST by redpoll
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray
As you say, people have been "working" with "cold fusion" since 1989, has anyone generated even 1 watt of electrical power with the subject technology?
Earlier this week, Kevmo posted THIS article, commenting on a public demonstration of a cold fusion reactor at MIT. The best run produced 0.08 Watts for about 102 minutes.

CERN is also holding a conference about LENR (in March, I believe). They made a point of saying that coffee and tea would be served afterwards. Using the above device as an example, if they could store the heat it generated perfectly, it would take about 10 days to produce enough energy to brew a cup of tea. So, at this time, LENR is not yet ready to make a cup of tea.

The part I find most amazing is that the Rossi fan boys who believe that Rossi is really generating 10,000W of power with his gadget are, nevertheless, getting all excited about Swartz generating 0.08W. Either Swartz's demonstration is totally trivial, or Rossi's is totally fraudulent.

26 posted on 02/11/2012 2:26:34 PM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Kevmo

Would have better luck with a magnifying glass.


27 posted on 02/11/2012 2:49:39 PM PST by Razzz42
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To: kindred

the scum of DC would make it illegal by shoving EPA rules and regs down our throats.
***They can’t do anything about the guys developing cold fusion in other countries.


28 posted on 02/11/2012 5:44:13 PM PST by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray

If LENR is so far off, why is NASA filing a patent for this technology? You don’t see them doing that for Polywater or Zero Point Energy.


29 posted on 02/11/2012 6:00:11 PM PST by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
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To: Johnny B.
The part I find most amazing is that the Rossi fan boys who believe that Rossi is really generating 10,000W of power with his gadget are, nevertheless, getting all excited about Swartz generating 0.08W. Either Swartz's demonstration is totally trivial, or Rossi's is totally fraudulent.

I have a BS in mechanical engineering and an associate in internal combustion engine design. The latter featured more thermodynamics, chemistry (fuels & lubricants), heat transfer than what was required for the BSME. That is I got to do calorimetry studies to measure the heating value of various fuels.

It is quite awhile since I actually did one of those studies but it still sticks in mind all of the factors that need to be recognized and accounted for when measuring heating values. The procedure required a closed "bomb" which contained the carefully weighed fuel sample along with an enough oxidizer to permit full combustion. Before closing the bomb, a small piece of nicrome wire was connected between two terminals in the wall of the bomb container to allow ignition of the sample. The assembled bomb was then placed in a large cylindrical tank of of water which had been weighed as the cylinder was filled. Temperature probes were then placed to measure both water and ambient air temperature. A stirring apparatus was used to induce a slow circulation of the water bath. Temperatures were observed until the water bath with the bomb achieved observed room temperature for a specified period (10 minutes typical). After achieving equilibrium, the circuit to the nicrome igniter was closed and periodic observations (every 15 sec. typical) of both water and air temperature commenced. These observations continued until the water temperature returned to room temperature.

Knowing the weight of the water in the bath and the sample weight you then were required to calculate the heating value of the sample fuel. The actual calculation required you to make allowances for the heat input from the igniter wire and from the mechanical work performed by the stirring apparatus. To arrive at the correction factors required a separate calorimeter runs w/o a fuel sample to measure the input from the igniter and another run to observe any correction needed for stirring.

Oops, I almost forgot! After the actual calorimeter run w/ fuel sample achieved equilibrium w/ room temp the bomb was removed from the water bath and carefully opened. The residual ash was removed and carefully weighed. The ash sample was then placed in a desiccator and thoroughly dried and then weighed again. Knowing the weight of the sample (fuel & oxidizer) before combustion and the wet ash weight after allows you to calculate the weight of the CO2 produced. Knowing the dry weight allows you to calculate the amount of water vapor produced by combustion. The last correction factor is to calculate the heat released by the condensation of the water vapor into liquid water, knowing that the heat of vaporization of water is 540 Calories/gram.

That is how small quantities of heat are measured. Careful attention to experimental design, actively looking for procedures which could introduce error, performing calibration runs to observe any such errors and either reduce them to zero or identify them so that corrections may be applied to the experimental values. I would venture that the CERN people are familiar with all of this, my doubts are that the people peddling these devices are not so scrupulous.

Regards,
GtG

PS Last time I did one of these experiments JFK was shot during the equilibrium phase of the experiment (no kidding).

30 posted on 02/11/2012 6:03:59 PM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: Moonman62

This will be my standard post to moonboy that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. But if it offends you to the point that you get it removed like my prior innocuous citation then I’ll have to come up with some other ‘ignore button’ post.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62

This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.

55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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31 posted on 02/11/2012 6:07:00 PM PST by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
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To: Kevmo
If LENR is so far off, why is NASA filing a patent for this technology? You don’t see them doing that for Polywater or Zero Point Energy.

I have no idea why NASA does anything, I can say that big business has been know to blanket whole areas of science with "patent applications" to "sew up" the areas for later development or to block others from doing so. Everything from every possible gear-set arrangement for automatic transmissions (auto industry) to potential drug improvements (pharmacutal industry) has been done in the past and "new developments" have been refiled to extend the patent protection so as to slow down competitive developments. I am an old phart and still have trouble w/ Newtonian Physics, Quantum Theory is mumbo jumbo has far as I can see but I do respect the laws of Thermodynamics because they have withstood the test of time with nothing added or deleted.

My question for you is if low energy nuclear reactions are indeed possible, just what is it that is holding the entire universe together. Why doesn't everything just blink out in a flash of unbound energy in a massive chain reaction? If I recall that was a real concern back during the Manhattan project.

Regards,
GtG

PS I wouldn't sell my utility stocks just yet...

32 posted on 02/11/2012 6:36:28 PM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray

“patent applications” to “sew up” the areas for later development or to block others from doing so.
***There’s no reason to do that if it’s a chimera.

My question for you is if low energy nuclear reactions are indeed possible, just what is it that is holding the entire universe together. Why doesn’t everything just blink out in a flash of unbound energy in a massive chain reaction?
***I don’t see what LENR has to do with this level of cosmology.


33 posted on 02/11/2012 6:52:26 PM PST by Kevmo (If you can define a man by the depravity of his enemies, Rick Santorum must be a noble soul indeed.)
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray
Prolly off topic, but your post reminded me of this:



34 posted on 02/11/2012 7:25:51 PM PST by tomkat
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray
That is how small quantities of heat are measured. Careful attention to experimental design, actively looking for procedures which could introduce error, performing calibration runs to observe any such errors and either reduce them to zero or identify them so that corrections may be applied to the experimental values. I would venture that the CERN people are familiar with all of this, my doubts are that the people peddling these devices are not so scrupulous.

That could explain why all of cold fusion's excess heat anomalies remain unexplained and inconsistent after all these years. They are measurement errors.

35 posted on 02/11/2012 7:34:10 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts

Powdered nickel mixed with pressurized hydrogen gas

95% of Worlds Nickle comes from either Canada or Russia.

There is one source in Montana.


36 posted on 02/11/2012 8:49:12 PM PST by CPT Clay (Pick up your weapon and follow me.)
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To: Moonman62

I believe there was a team that reported just last month at a LENR conference that they found that a meter they were using didn’t produce accurate results for the “spikey” data they had, and when they switched to an accurate measuring device (oscilloscope) their “excess power” readings disappeared.


37 posted on 02/11/2012 9:47:37 PM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray
"That is how small quantities of heat are measured. Careful attention to experimental design, actively looking for procedures which could introduce error, performing calibration runs to observe any such errors and either reduce them to zero or identify them so that corrections may be applied to the experimental values. I would venture that the CERN people are familiar with all of this, my doubts are that the people peddling these devices are not so scrupulous."

MOST of the people doing research in LENR are scientists of impeccable credentials. Perhaps you should actually READ some of the published papers on their calorimetry and results. Lots of links to papers in the Library Section at LENR-CANR.org, including many with full explanations of the calorimetries used.

38 posted on 02/12/2012 5:14:06 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray

“Excess powers in the range of 5-8 W with 170% efficiency were reported for the glow discharge experiments.”

1) http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/NagelDJscientific.pdf

“The registered meanings of Excess Heat power obtained in the experiments amounted to 120 – 170 W with Heat Efficiency (the ratio between output heat power and the input electrical power) 200 – 340 % in HVEC experiments.”

“The most unusual feature for the Pd-B electrode was the observation of excess power and positive feedback at a very early stage of the experiment (Day 3) at a low current density (48 mA/cm2) and at a low cell temperature (29 °C).[1] This Pd-B experiment ran 68 days with excess power production often exceeding 400 mW. The cell was driven to boiling on Day 68 with the excess power exceeding 9 watts.”

2) http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Srinivasaniccfthinte.pdf

Most recent survey of the field is probably McKubre’s talk in 3) on page xv.

3) http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/ViolanteVproceeding.pdf

4) http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/ViolanteVproceedinga.pdf


39 posted on 02/12/2012 5:22:03 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog; Kevmo
“Excess powers in the range of 5-8 W with 170% efficiency were reported for the glow discharge experiments.”

“The registered meanings of Excess Heat power obtained in the experiments amounted to 120 – 170 W with Heat Efficiency (the ratio between output heat power and the input electrical power) 200 – 340 % in HVEC experiments.”

That is significant! (previous posts were reporting 0.08 W continuous, which suggests measurement error). I was going to make a comment about a COP exceeding one when I had a flash back. The laws of Thermodynamics stipulate that the COP of a process cannot exceed 1 (the part that is hardly ever mentioned is coming up!) barring the presence of nuclear processes.

Since the experiment ran at a measured 170% thermal efficiency I would take that as an iron clad guarantee that "nuclear processes" were, in fact, providing the excess energy. Is there any other artifact generated besides the thermal energy released? Electromagnetic waves or particles of any sort? It does seem rather odd that these reactions release nothing but heat w/ no discernible byproducts.

Nuclear power, safe as Churches, who would have thought...

Regards,
GtG

40 posted on 02/12/2012 6:27:00 PM PST by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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