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Bishops Reject Obama's 'Accommodation' - President's political hemorrhaging to continue.
American Spectator ^ | 2.13.12 | G. Tracy Mehan, III

Posted on 02/13/2012 7:12:20 PM PST by neverdem

The American bishops have, with alacrity, rejected President Obama's proposed "accommodation" on the contraception mandate in no uncertain terms. Their response came before the sun had set on the very day of his announcement.

Noting that the "proposal continues to involve needless government intrusion in the internal governance of religious institutions, and to threaten government coercion of religious people and groups to violate their most deeply held convictions," the Catholic hierarchy virtually guaranteed more political hemorrhaging for the White House.

The bishops indicated that they were not consulted in advance of the President's announcement and had just received information about it "for the first time this morning [Friday]."

"The only complete solution to this religious liberty problem is for HHS [Department of Health and Human Services] to rescind the mandate of these objectionable services," stated the bishops in their statement released through the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCB).

President Obama's proposal for an "accommodation," not a compromise, claimed to shift the costs of the contraceptive services to the insurance carriers of the religious institutions as if they would provide such services for free for an indefinite period of time.

The proposal is really no accommodation at all since, as the Wall Street Journal opined in a lead editorial ("Immaculate Contraception," February 11-12, 2012), prices will eventually find an equilibrium, i.e., the carriers will eventually price their policy premiums accordingly which, in turn, means their customers, the religious institutions, will still be footing the bill.

"So you almost have to admire the absurdity of the new plan President Obama floated yesterday: The government will now write a rule that says the best things in life are 'free,' including contraception," wrote the Journal. "Thus, a political mandate will be compounded by an uneconomic one -- in other words, behold the soul..."

(Excerpt) Read more at spectator.org ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: abortion; contraception; drugs; firstamendment; moralabsolutes; obama; religiousliberty; wod; wodlist; wosd
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1 posted on 02/13/2012 7:12:29 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

bookmark


2 posted on 02/13/2012 7:15:37 PM PST by GOP Poet
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To: neverdem
Well, well, well.

As a Catholic, dare I hope that the hierarchy has found their backbone (I would say gonads, but I might be struck down, lol) and are finally going to stand up to the Neo-Commie, Fascist, who most assuredly, 95%+ no doubt supported?

I'll reserve my Hallelujahs and "Attaboys" until I read the fine print.

3 posted on 02/13/2012 7:22:19 PM PST by Conservative Vermont Vet (l)
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To: neverdem

GOOD ON THEM!!!!

A Pox on Zer0Care!


4 posted on 02/13/2012 7:22:30 PM PST by Noob1999 (Loose Lips, Sink Ships)
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To: neverdem

FUBO


5 posted on 02/13/2012 7:26:27 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Ain’t it a shame?

Thanks neverdem.


6 posted on 02/13/2012 7:26:56 PM PST by SunkenCiv (FReep this FReepathon!)
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To: SunkenCiv

BLEED, BLEED, BLEED!!!


7 posted on 02/13/2012 7:27:38 PM PST by diamond6 (Check out: http://www.biblechristiansociety.com/home.php and learn about the faith.)
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To: neverdem

8 posted on 02/13/2012 7:29:03 PM PST by Diogenesis ("Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. " Pres. Ronald Reagan)
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To: neverdem
Getting past the specific religious issues of interest to the Catholic Church and the Baptists (and others), let's get to the question of what we might expect out of a Cannibal King from a remote region of the world.

There, in the most barbaric of circumstances, the Cannibal King will not only force those he has conquered to go under the yoke, he will have them dip the spears in the blood of their dead children and elders.

He will roast victims and feed them to their mothers and fathers.

For a variety of not entirely accountable reasons this sort of behavior induces deep depression in the survivors and allows the Cannibal King to reduce them to slavery.

Once there, the Cannibal King keeps those he will and sells the rest for shipment to distant lands.

Yesterday we saw Mr. Lew, an Orthodox Jew who belongs to a Potomac MD synagogue (there are only 3 possible where he's a member), bow down and tell us what Obama wants.

There is no way any Orthodox Jewish synagogue tolerates the sort of message delivery Mr. Lew engaged in unless it is understood that he is truly one of the Cannibal King's slaves.

Obviously Lew is not in tune with the main thrust of American law either ~ but he does make a striking house servant. One is forced to wonder if there are modern psychoactive drugs he could be given to save him from this quite obvious path of self destruction.

For some reason I doubt Mr. Lew is a candidate for salvation. He's gone over. He belongs to Obama ~ he belongs to a Luo ~ and that's not the first slave the Luo have made of a Jew who wandered into their grasp. Be nice to know it's the last, but that may not be in the cards either.

9 posted on 02/13/2012 7:34:52 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: neverdem

As I observed on another thread, if one suffers from any two of the delusions

1. There is such a thing as a free lunch.

2. Money is not fungible.

3. You are not doing evil if you get someone else to do it for you.

one might actually believe the “accommodation” represented HHS backing down. The understanding of economics and state of moral reasoning on the left is such that I suspect Obama and Sibelius both suffer from all three of those delusions.


10 posted on 02/13/2012 7:35:54 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: neverdem

Pardon me.

I am not Catholic and not a close follower of Catholic news and events.

But it seems to me the Bishops have been asleep and have recently awakened with this contraception controversy.

My question: where have they been? Why have they not raised Hell with popular Catholic politicians (Pelosi, Kerry, et al) for their stand on abortion and contraception.

Like I said, I don’t follow Catholic goings on. I don’t understand why, all of a sudden, the Bishops are taking a stand? They’ve had plenty of missed opportunities in the past.

Excuse me if I have offended any Catholic FReepers. I’m just trying to understand this.


11 posted on 02/13/2012 7:38:01 PM PST by upchuck (Let's have the Revolution NOW before we get dumbed down to the point that we can't.)
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To: SunkenCiv
Wondefully written article.

I can't believe Fox News didn't pick up on the point all weekend that premiums are paid by religious institutions, insurance companies pass on the cost of things they cover to consumers, and, therefore, the Catholic religious organization consumers will still be funding contraception and abortion. I was yelling at my TV all weekend, when even the conservative commentators didn't talk about this.

My pastor raised this issue at the end of Mass on Sunday, calling Obama's accommodation, "no compromise at all", reminding parishioners of the Church's position on contraception, and warning them that this is just the start of increasing infringements of our religious freedom, if we allow Obama to do this. God bless him!

This is pretty fundamentally clear. Is it not?

12 posted on 02/13/2012 7:38:14 PM PST by diamond6 (Check out: http://www.biblechristiansociety.com/home.php and learn about the faith.)
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To: neverdem
President's political hemorrhaging to continue.

I am wondering after three days of this madness why we are not seeing a downward trend in Der Führer polls? The Gobels media has his back - not to worry. /s

Rasmussen Daily History
13 posted on 02/13/2012 7:40:52 PM PST by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet

Well, pardon my attitude, but as a Catholic who watched the Catholic Church sell out the tenants of the religion a long time ago, I find it difficult to get worked-up thinking the Bishops will finally stand up against secularism and government intrusion when they were lock-step in line supporting ObamaCare socialism before the President turned against them as was just too predictable from the start!


14 posted on 02/13/2012 7:42:03 PM PST by Froggie
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To: neverdem

I suspect that he thinks he can drive a wedge between Catholic leadership and members. We will see if the Bishops can deliver an anti-0bama vote in November.


15 posted on 02/13/2012 7:44:39 PM PST by hiho hiho
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To: upchuck

Don’t apologize, we pre-Vatican II Catholics find a lot of what the heirarchy of the Church has allowed to go on without challenge rather disheartening.


16 posted on 02/13/2012 7:45:31 PM PST by Froggie
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To: upchuck

Well, yes, but let’s just be glad that the bishops appear to have woken up.

The Catholic Church made a wrong turn when they decided that government “aid” to poor people could replace private charity. This happened mainly under FDR during the Great Depression.

But the Catholic Church wasn’t alone in this. Protestant pastors made the same mistake, actually starting back in the 1890s, when they decided that it was less embarrassing for the poor to receive handouts from the government than from soup kitchens and from rich members of their congregations.

It took a long time for the consequences of this mistake to become apparent. You could see it coming for a long time, but finally it has arrived in full force.

In any case, it’s not just the Catholic bishops. It’s Christian pastors and lay people of all kinds, who under a false sense of compassion have supported these government handouts. And probably most of them still do.


17 posted on 02/13/2012 7:50:20 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: neverdem
I seriously doubt for one minute Obama is losing a golf outing or exotic foods over Catholic tradition. How can any who have been paying attention to what Teddy Kennedy worked for and toward all his political career ....’universal health care’. Well the old lion got planted in our National cemetery and Nancy Pewlouise and Stupak finished what he began all those many years ago. Now I would support legislation to dig him up and plant him near a Mass bridge to nowhere.

Universal still means today what it has always meant.

I am not a Catholic, but I have observed some of its members up close and personal over these past 35 years and they are liberal democrat first in the Catholic tradition.

AND lest any think these people are Christmas/Easter Catholics, nothing is further from the truth. I know some of the Christmas/Easter Catholics as well and they would be call Reagan Democrats.

This is a ‘war’ inside the church and Obama with a liberal Congress decided they would re-cut ‘Peter's’ keys once again.

18 posted on 02/13/2012 8:01:58 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: upchuck

From CNA:

Rome, Italy, Feb 11, 2012 / 01:46 pm.- Politicians who consider themselves Catholic but collaborate in “the assault against their faith” should remember they will one day have to give account for their acts before God, Bishop Daniel Jenky of Peoria, Illinois said Feb 10.

“There is a last judgment. There is a particular judgment. May they change their minds and may God have mercy on them,” he told CNA during his visit to Rome.

When asked specifically about recent actions of Democratic Health and Human Services Secretary Sebelius Kathleen Sebelius and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, Bishop Jenky replied “I am utterly scandalized.”

“The Lord once said ‘if you deny me at the end, I will deny you,’ this from our most merciful, good Savior. And so if it is a choice between Jesus Christ and political power or getting favorable editorials in leftist papers, well, that’s simply not a choice.”

[For full story...]


19 posted on 02/13/2012 8:03:43 PM PST by billys kid (Everything in Massachusetts is illegal)
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To: neverdem

So who will pay the insurance company?

Kudos to the first elected American office holder willing to publicly call Obama an “Economic Dunce.”

Which is the least of his many faults.


20 posted on 02/13/2012 8:08:04 PM PST by cookcounty (Newt 2012: ---> Because he got it DONE.)
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To: neverdem

And yet, during General Intercessions this Sunday, we prayed for “Healthcare for All”.

You reap what you sow.


21 posted on 02/13/2012 8:08:20 PM PST by TankerKC (Welcome to the age of "I Meant to Do That" Diplomacy)
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To: neverdem
And real Catholics reject it too!

Bishops Reject Obama's 'Accommodation' - President's political hemorrhaging to continue.
WH: We Are Done Negotiating With Catholics
Notre Dame Faculty to Obama: ‘This Is a Grave Violation of Religious Freedom and Cannot Stand’
White House: No More Compromise on Contraception
Obama's anti-religious implosion
Lew: Obama's latest stance on birth-control mandate final, puts issue to rest (CAPTION)
Pat Buchanan: 'Obama is trampling on God's turf' (Video)
W.H. official: Contraceptive rule stands
Obama chief of staff: No more compromise, contraceptive rule is done deal
Bishops Reject White House’s New Plan on Contraception (Obama continues his "War On Religion")
Faith/Pro-Life Leaders to Challenge Mandate by Praying and Risking Arrest in Front of the WH
Catholic Bishops: Don't Revise, Rescind
Obama's contempt for the Constitution
How the Catholic Church Became Cool Overnight

Chuck Colson Reacts to Obama’s “Compromise” on Required Abortion Care for Church Employees
US Bishops: Obama's 'Compromise' Has No Clear Protection...(Needless Government Intrusion)
Protests Continue Over Insurance for Contraception, Abortifacients (Feds Under Increasing Pressure
Bishops to Obama: No dice
Paul VI: “danger of this power passing into the hands of those public authorities ...”
Michael Moore Goes On Anti-Catholic Twitter Rant, Distorts Contraception Debate
Religious controversy burns Obama again (the rookie Hussein is in WAY over his pay grade)
Another Catholic college vows it will ‘not violate conscience’ on Obama mandate
Lutherans join chorus of voices slamming HHS contraceptive mandate
The Obama HHS 'Compromise' Switches the Tiger for the Lion (Not all Catholics buying Obama's bull)
Hannity on now with Priests, Pastors and Rabbis. Please watch
EDITORIAL: Obama’s free abortion pills
U.S. bishops ‘express concerns’ about Obama mandate ‘accommodation’
What Compromise? This Policy Leaves Religious Liberty in Peril and Planned Parenthood Smiling (Albert Mohler Opinion)
Bishops Renew Call To Legislative Action On Religious Liberty
Southern Baptist leader: Obama gave Christians ‘the dismissive back’ of his hand
Obama's Act of Tyranny
Bishops Were Prepared for Battle Over Birth Control Coverage
'Accounting gimmick' -- Obama compromise still threatens religious liberty, leaders say
Bishops ‘concerned’ over reworded mandate; other Catholic leaders slam as ‘insult to injury’
Obama Bows to Pressure, but His Religious 'Accommodation' Even Worse

Don't Be Deceived! Evil Obama Policy Now Even MORE Evil!
Obama’s Contraceptive 'Compromise' Doesn't Pass the Smell Test ("It doesn't change a thing")
Compromise or Accommodation, it’s still unacceptable. (updated from Catholic Vote)
Pres. Obama’s “Plan B” compromise, Sr. Keehan, and the Magisterium of Nuns
Land Says Obama Mandate Most Anti-Catholic Government Action in 150 Years
Motive, Means and Opportunity: Obama’s Assault on Catholics
(Exempt Catholics) Joe Biden, Bill Daley warned of contraceptive backlash
(Tim) Thomas makes second political statement (Stands With Catholics)
Southern Baptist leader: If Obama mandate isn’t changed, Christians will go to jail
Over 150 congressional leaders demand repeal of HHS mandate
Boehner vows to overturn Obama’s birth control coverage rule
Boehner: Congress to overturn birth control policy if Obama does not reverse course
O'Brien says Archdiocese of Baltimore won't offer birth control coverage
Archbishop of San Francisco says Obama ruling strikes at religious freedom
How Obama Lost the Catholic Vote
‘I am going to stick with fellow Catholics’ in Pres. Obama’s war on Catholics. Wherein Fr. Z rants.
Unholy War
Six Things Everyone Should Know about the HHS Mandate
Santorum: Obama Hostile to Christians
Understanding Oppostion to the HHS Mandate (Part 1): Why the Church Won’t Pay for Contracept

The Bishops Chickens Coming Home to Roost.
65 Orthodox Church bishops call on Obama to ‘rescind’ the ‘unjust’ contraception mandate
Doug Kmiec Writes Obama: 'Friendship Will Not Permit Me to Disregard Duty to Faith and Country'
Catholic Outcry Over Obama Administration's Birth Control Decision Could Factor In Presidential Race
Standing with the Bishops [Catholic Caucus]
Updated: *167* Bishops (More Than 90% of Dioceses) Have Spoken Out Against Obama/HHS Mandate
Outrage!… Military Tells Chaplains What They Can and Can’t Say About HHS/ObamaAssault on Religion
Updated: *153* Bishops (Over 80% of Dioceses) Have Spoken Out Against Obama/HHS Mandate
An Affront Catholics Agree On [Liberal and Conservative Catholics Against Obama Mandate]
Army Silenced Chaplains Last Sunday
Catholic Military Archdiocese & Chaplains interfered with last Sunday by Pres. Obama’s Admin
The Anti-Catholic President v. the Catholic Bishops
Sen. Rubio introduces bill to reverse Obama birth control mandate
Churches balk at birth control rule - Catholics won’t comply, Bishop Kevin Rhoades says
Protestants and Jews declare to White House: We stand with Catholics
Checking the Air Outside [Bp. Zubik's follow up to Obama's “To Hell with You”]
Mohler [Southern Baptist] Says Insurance Mandate Not Just 'Catholic' Issue
An Open Letter to President Barack Obama Concerning Recent Tyranny (With Pictures!)
Lincoln bishop: prepare for 'suffering' under HHS mandate
Bishop David Zubik confronts Obama
Obama’s ‘war on the church’

Pope hits out at 'radical secularism'
‘We Will Not Comply’: Catholic Leaders Distribute Letter Slamming Obama Admin Contraceptive Mandate
‘We Will Not Comply’: Catholic Leaders Distribute Letter Slamming Obama Admin Contraceptive Mandate
Bruskewitz: Fight Insurance Ruling [Sebelius a "bitter, fallen away Catholic"]
Letter from Archbishop John G. Vlazny on the matter of freedom of conscience and decisions by HHS
Bishop Olmsted's Letter to Catholics [Catholic Caucus]
Liberty for the Amish & Quakers but not Catholics. . .
Contraception mandate prompts Peoria bishop to instate St. Michael Prayer (Catholic Caucus)
Phoenix bishop (Olmstead): defy feds on birth control
A letter from Archbishop Dennis M. Schnurr concerning HHS edict
Speak honestly: abortion is ‘the killing of tiny human beings in the womb’ – Denver bishop
Bishop [Daniel Jenky] Blasts Secularist Intolerance, Calls For ‘Assertive Action’ to Defend Church
(Pittsburgh Bishop Zubik comments:) HHS delays rule on contraceptive coverage
Dolan: Natural law, not religious preference, dictates all life sacred
Religious leaders blast HHS over contraception mandate
Mandated Contraception, Sterilization: Caesar Demands Church Violate Conscience
OBAMA’S CONTEMPT FOR RELIGIOUS LIBERTY (mandates coverage of sterilization & contraception)
Implications of Obama Admin move to force Cath hospitals to provide contraception and sterilizations
Catholic doctors’ group launches petition against contraception mandate
Contraception mandate tramples religious freedom, US bishops say

22 posted on 02/13/2012 8:16:52 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: upchuck

It’s going to get a lot better, but I believe it may get worse first.


23 posted on 02/13/2012 8:21:57 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: The_Reader_David

Perhaps number three from your list. However I believe the two, and the rest in this rogue administration are on a power trip, believing themselves rulers, nor representatives of the people. How else does one explain the arrogant notion that they can “accommodate” an inalienable right granted to us by the Lord Almighty? They cannot, it is not their to decide how much of it we should be allowed.


24 posted on 02/13/2012 8:33:54 PM PST by gidget7 ("When a man assumes a public trust, he should consider himself as public property." Thomas Jefferson)
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To: The_Reader_David

Perhaps number three from your list. However I believe the two, and the rest in this rogue administration are on a power trip, believing themselves rulers, nor representatives of the people. How else does one explain the arrogant notion that they can “accommodate” an inalienable right granted to us by the Lord Almighty? They cannot, it is not theirs to decide how much of it we should be allowed.


25 posted on 02/13/2012 8:34:08 PM PST by gidget7 ("When a man assumes a public trust, he should consider himself as public property." Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet

Why did many Catholics support the big government of Obamacare in the first place?


26 posted on 02/13/2012 8:43:48 PM PST by tbw2
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To: neverdem
Their rejection is great--if they focus on the fact that this is not about the Trojan Horses of "women's health" or "contraception."

It's not even limited to the principle of religious liberty or freedom of speech.

It is about an unconstitutional assumption of power over rights which "the People" withheld from the purview of the government they structured through their Constitution. If this arrogation of power to the Executive is allowed to stand in this case, then all of "the People's" rights are at risk.

Inasmuch as their Constitution allowed no power to infringe on any specified right in the First Amendment, then the person who assumes such a power also does not possess a power to "compromise," or "accomodate."

May I suggest that readers of this thread read Leonard Read's "Anything That's Peaceful," which can be read online, and share this wonderful and easy-to-read book with as many people as you can. The book itself can be ordered from FEE.

Not only does Read provide insight into the ideas of liberty versus those of tyranny (as in socialism), but his Chapter 5, entitled, "How Socialism Harms the Individual" is especially enlightening for any who may not see what is happening in America in its proper context, as pertains to the individuals involved.

In Chapter 5, under the heading "The Authoritarian," he begins by stating, "Of the threee classifications of persons involved in social leveling by compulsion, the authoritarian--the one who administers the taking and the giving--has been too little diagnosed." When you read it, you will see the nature of the man before us today. This section of Chapter 5 paints a portrait most Americans will recognize.

An extra bonus of this wonderful book is that it contains Read's famous "I, Pencil." Copies should be placed in every school library and in every home school setting.

If you find thoughts expressed herein worthwhile, please share with persons of your acquaintance--especially the younger generation.

27 posted on 02/13/2012 8:56:08 PM PST by loveliberty2
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To: gidget7

Excellent point!! Please see my Post 27.


28 posted on 02/13/2012 8:58:27 PM PST by loveliberty2
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet

Yes they have ad I suspect that masses from now on will mention this frequently.I suspect many of the uber liberals will end p leaving over what they are going to hear.


29 posted on 02/13/2012 9:37:38 PM PST by chris_bdba
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To: neverdem
The bishops indicated that they were not consulted in advance of the President's announcement and had just received information about it "for the first time this morning [Friday]."...as someone observed today, usually when you talk about "compromise" you have two sides sitting around at a table and working out what will be acceptable to each - in this case the government simply handed down its version with a take-it-or-leave-it tag - soon even the dumbest of our citizens will be able to understand just what totalitarian instincts drive this administration......
30 posted on 02/13/2012 9:46:03 PM PST by Intolerant in NJ
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To: neverdem

Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, they’ve found their balls.


31 posted on 02/13/2012 9:47:25 PM PST by Karliner ( Jeremiah 29:11, Romans 8:28, Romans 8:38"...this is the end of the beginning."WC)
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To: neverdem
The anti-birthers only care about getting their pills. It's ok to trash the First Amendment as long as they get their pills.
32 posted on 02/13/2012 9:51:47 PM PST by yellowhammer
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To: upchuck

I think the Pope needs an email account. Somehow the Bishops vote on doctrine? How about an email saying “I expect your support in striking down these unlawful mandates”. I just don’t get the loose organization here.


33 posted on 02/13/2012 10:03:38 PM PST by Goreknowshowtocheat
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To: neverdem; 185JHP; 230FMJ; AKA Elena; APatientMan; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

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I like the sound of "political hemhorraging". This is firing up not only Catholics but many, many people. This is the writing on the wall of what 0bomba means to do - destroy religious freedom and force everyone under the communist yoke of National "Health" Care. Force us all to pay for death and immorality in the name of "health".

34 posted on 02/13/2012 10:15:01 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell)
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To: neverdem

Barry Soetoro’s arrogant belief that he can take on the Catholic church is the gift that will keep on giving til election day.


35 posted on 02/13/2012 10:36:51 PM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: neverdem

Glenn Beck was on The Ted Baxter Factor Monday evening- His theory is that Buckwheat’s goal is to foment a civil insurrection. He is right, that’s been his goal all along. His constant announcements of bizarre actions, which he usually walks back TO AN EXTENT, and he’s doing the same thing with this contraception crap. I had been thinking that his announcements were more of a chaos instigation, but I believe that Beck has him nailed- he wants rioting in the streets. Then he will cancel elections.


36 posted on 02/13/2012 10:58:41 PM PST by matthew fuller (Daniel Hannan is a better "American Citizen" than any Democrat and many Republicans.)
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To: diamond6

With a portion of the Catholic institutions, there are no paid external insurance companies- some self insure.


37 posted on 02/13/2012 11:05:33 PM PST by matthew fuller (Daniel Hannan is a better "American Citizen" than any Democrat and many Republicans.)
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To: matthew fuller

That’s even worse! The bishops are saying that his mandate doesn’t even address that aspect of it. Presumably, his mandate is to make sure that every one can get their free pills. If so, then his mandate will not exempt Catholic institutions, because of his belief Americans have a “right” to baby killing pills.


38 posted on 02/13/2012 11:31:01 PM PST by diamond6 (Check out: http://www.biblechristiansociety.com/home.php and learn about the faith.)
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To: Cicero

I have to agree with you 110%. It’s not only in the charity arena, either. Churches have for some time used government to criminalize sin. I cannot even begin to fathom the why of it. Jesus told us to give government its due, but especially give God HIS due. HE is in the sin business, not governments. It’s HIS area of expertise and He’s quite good at it, sending His only Son to DIE so we might find forgiveness of our sins, then He rose again to show us we have the PROMISE of eternal life with Him when we receive our final transfer orders to our last permanent duty station and our names are in the Lamb’s book of life.

Government has but one proper and legitimate function: protect the equal rights of all of us, but otherwise LEAVE US ALONE. Stop trespassing onto God’s turf! No government handouts, no criminalizing SIN.


39 posted on 02/14/2012 12:10:35 AM PST by dcwusmc (A FREE People have no sovereign save Almighty GOD!!! III OK We are EVERYWHERE!!!)
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To: dcwusmc

So you want murder and robbery to be legal?

All laws are based on a moral code. In fact there are only two purposes of laws.
1. Enforce morals (right and wrong).
2. Generate revenue.


40 posted on 02/14/2012 7:03:57 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Salvation
I see Sister Carol Keehan hasn't backed down on her support for ObamaCare:

Sorry, I can't cut and paste from this site.

http://www.catholictranscript.org/home/local-news/2256-presidents-revised-hhs-mandate-wont-solve-problems-usccb-president-says.html
41 posted on 02/14/2012 7:17:39 AM PST by jaydubya2
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet

The Catholic Church has allowed itself to be neutered.

The political clause for non profits was explicitely added to the tax code to do just this.

It is long past time that the Catholic Church, and other churches realize that they cannot remain silent, and though its a huge financial hit, they should pay taxes and speak God’s truth.

Anyone who is Catholic and votes Democratic IMHO doesn’t remotely understand the Cannon of the Church they claim to be part of.


42 posted on 02/14/2012 7:26:31 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: tbw2
Why did many Catholics support the big government of Obamacare in the first place?

About half the "Catholic" population in these United States seems to be Catholic in the same way that Woody Allen is Jewish or Bill Clinton is Baptist ... that is to say, it is for them merely a cultural identity. It is not a faith or religious practice which in any meaningful way informs their lives or their principles. They are, rather influenced by secular culture, which is aggressively socialist and perverted.

43 posted on 02/14/2012 7:29:20 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: redgolum

Your strawman is getting kinda old and lame. The right to LIFE, supposedly protected by state governments in this country, means the RIGHT NOT TO BE MURDERED. Equally, the right to property means the right NOT TO BE ROBBED. How difficult is that to comprehend? I guess it’s a bit much for YOU, though.

And, while the second of your notions may be correct, the first is totally wrong. But you knew that before you set fingers to keyboard.


44 posted on 02/14/2012 8:38:59 AM PST by dcwusmc (A FREE People have no sovereign save Almighty GOD!!! III OK We are EVERYWHERE!!!)
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To: redgolum

Your strawman is getting kinda old and lame. The right to LIFE, supposedly protected by state governments in this country, means the RIGHT NOT TO BE MURDERED. Equally, the right to property means the right NOT TO BE ROBBED. How difficult is that to comprehend? I guess it’s a bit much for YOU, though.

And, while the second of your notions may be correct, the first is totally wrong. But you knew that before you set fingers to keyboard.


45 posted on 02/14/2012 8:41:52 AM PST by dcwusmc (A FREE People have no sovereign save Almighty GOD!!! III OK We are EVERYWHERE!!!)
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To: dcwusmc

Why do you have a right? Isn’t that a moral decision? Why don’t I have the right to take whatever I want from you, as long as I have the might to pull it off?

Read Blackstone for starters. Come back to me when you grow up. Saying that that “You can’t outlaw sin!” means that you have a favorite one you want to protect. That is fine. But saying that the Law has no basis in morals is silly, and you know that.

Hence your little tantrum.


46 posted on 02/14/2012 8:48:48 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

Our RIGHTS come from our Creator. Governments exist to protect those rights, period. Primarily, we have a right to be left alone by government. With the criminalization of “sin,” THAT Right goes out the window as the drug cops and gun cops willingly, willfully and eagerly trash our Constitution in order to make their “job” easier. And misguided (or not, and if not, what, I wonder?) people avidly support them, with the “if you’ve done nothing wrong” mantra that excuses these outlaws of government and the absolute EVIL they do, in the name of “protecting” us from ourselves. Thanks but no thanks. Leave me alone and I will protect me and mine. Stop using the evil of government to do God’s work.


47 posted on 02/14/2012 1:08:54 PM PST by dcwusmc (A FREE People have no sovereign save Almighty GOD!!! III OK We are EVERYWHERE!!!)
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To: dcwusmc
You don't understand logic very well do you.

Your argument is not even internally consistent. You can not argue that the Law can not be used against sin while at the same time stating that a Creator gave you rights. The Creator (God) is not a blank pass to do as you will.

Now, you are at least admitting something. You want to legalize drugs, or are sympathetic to that. You point out all the damage that the drug “war” has done to our old rights (which is correct), and that you want the government to leave you alone so you can pursue you choice of chemical enjoyment in peace. Since the Law can not be used against sin, so be it.

No lets take it one step further. I have a group of like minded, well armed, fellows. We have a nice deal going where we attack towns and churches, and carry off what ever we can steal. In our culture, that is an acceptable way to make a living, and even quite respectable.

Why should that be illegal if, as you say, the law can not legislate sin? See, the local law enforcement has really put a damper on our choice of profession.

Think. Use logic to support your argument. Don't go all emo and start talking about out of control cops. Think. You have taken God and morality out of the picture.

Why, if I have the might, is piracy or going a Viking illegal? You can't argue that “well, that hurts other people”. Morality is out of the picture. Drugs hurt other people, not just the user. So does a lot of things.

48 posted on 02/14/2012 3:01:00 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum
Drugs hurt other people, not just the user.

In what way(s)?

So does a lot of things.

Which things? Should they be banned as drugs are?

49 posted on 02/14/2012 3:04:05 PM PST by JustSayNoToNannies (A free society's default policy: it's none of government's business.)
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To: JustSayNoToNannies

Then why ban plundering?


50 posted on 02/14/2012 3:36:40 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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