Skip to comments.Long Beach City College tries an alt to placement tests [as 85% reading and 73% math need remedial)
Posted on 06/25/2012 5:34:03 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
Edward Yacuta felt rushed and nervous when he took a test to determine whether he was ready for college-level English classes at Long Beach City College.
The 18-year-old did poorly on the exam, even though he was getting good grades in an Advanced Placement English class at Long Beach's Robert A. Millikan High School.
Most community colleges would assign students like Yacuta to a remedial class, but he will avoid that fate at Long Beach. The two-year school is trying out a new system this fall that will place students who graduated from the city's high schools in courses based on their grades rather than their scores on the standardized placement tests.
Long Beach is in the forefront of a movement in community colleges nationwide to reassess the use of placement tests for incoming students.
The issue is especially acute in California, where about 85% of students entering a two-year college are assigned to remedial English classes and 73% to remedial math, mostly based on placement tests. Only about one-third of those students go on to earn an associate degree or transfer to a four-year college, according to California's community college system.
Remedial classes sometimes referred to as developmental or basic education typically don't offer credit that counts toward graduation. Many students must take multiple levels of remedial courses to catch up. And some research indicates that remedial courses don't adequately prepare students for more advanced courses.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
It just means that businesses, not trusting the academic credentials of “college” applicants, will need to set up their own placement tests. Watch the homeschoolers and Asians blow everyone away on those tests!
Classic liberal educational mentality. When you can’t educate kids up to standard - just change the standards. Downwards.
...”The system is expected to especially benefit black and Latino students, who are disproportionately assigned to remedial classes, said Long Beach City College President Eloy Oakley.”...
Can someone please explain to me how placing 1st year college students into math classes that they are not prepared to take is good for the student and placing students into remedial math to bring them up to speed is bad?
Did poorly on exam, yet he was in AP English.
Then there’s the matter of colleges providing remedial English and math classes. If you need them, why are they letting you attend college? Must have something to do with the $$$ !
Soon we will have college graduates who cannot “operate” a hamburger flipper. Oh well, there is always the community organizer “profession” which may well lead to bigger things.
Research by Scott-Clayton and others indicates that the placement tests are a poor predictor of how students will perform in college classes and that high school grade point averages can be a better barometer.
More phony lib theory. Students who do poorly on the tests are assigned to remedial classes and only 1/3 of those have even a small measure of academic success. It sounds like the tests are doing exactly what they are supposed to--weeding out those who are not ready to be mainstreamed in higher education. Therefore--get rid of the tests!
>> ...The system is expected to especially benefit black and Latino students, who are disproportionately assigned to remedial classes, said Long Beach City College President Eloy Oakley....
Ah, the affirmative action dumbing-down of America proceeds apace...
Isn’t this is a wonderful blueprint for how a nation ought to compete in a global economy.
Because college would have to be re-named prep school, at least logically.
But today, everyone gets an A.
I’m not a big believer in formal education. We were better off as a country when most children dropped out after 8th grade. But I do believe in truth. (Which is why I value education, not schooling.)
It covers up the fact that public schools aren’t teaching core subject matter or critical thinking skills.
AND according to the article it saves students tuition money and time getting a degree.
Apparently it doesn’t matter what they know when they get out.
They say remedial classes discourage students, leading them to say, “Forget it.”
Because you're shoehorning students into college when they have no business being there.
Sorry, but DUMB is actually a compliment here. This “college” has just adopted a program that “feels good” but will destroy the value of that paper called a “College Degree.”
It isn’t bad enough that colleges rip off the financial futures of their students by pushing them through courses that have absolutely NO value in the real world. Now they are removing that last indication to the prospective employer that the “degree” is worth the paper it is printed on.
Additionally, this community “College” is abetting in a massive coverup, hiding the fact that the local HIGH SCHOOLS are an abject failure.
Doesn't make that A or B worth very much. Typical public school mentality...can't hurt the little darling's feeling by giving them the grades they REALLY deserve.
Also, they kept saying how the students could get out quicker. Never mentioned if they learned anything.
I don't know about that. I really don't know if they would pass judicial review. All I can say is that it was company written tests that started this college stampede in the first place. The Supreme Court ruled that tests administered by Duke Power Company were racially discriminatory, so companies flocked to the college degree as a subsitute.
Double Dumb. My oldest started a JC at 15 and tested out of all the remedial courses. Needless to say she was home schooled.
Remedial college courses show the real state of public (K-12) education.
Create a HS entrance exam with IQ=97 required, and all these "college" stories would go away - forever.
They are widely accepted by colleges as being very a reliable predictor of success in college. So?....why wouldn't they predict success on the job? To my knowledge SAT and ACT tests have never been challenged as being racially biased.
Most of the work done in the U.S. doesn't need a college degree. For example, why does the event planner at the Marriott Hotel need a degree? They simply need to be sufficiently literate, numerate, intelligent, and ambitious. SAT and ACT scores are likely very good measures of these qualities.
For nearly all the work done in the U.S. most of what an employee learns is **on the job**!
“Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist.”
“Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist.”
Try again? Unlike some around here I’m always open to a good blog.
Yeah...alas - I’m a cheap pimp. There’s an extra dash at the end of the the URL. My bad.
“Education rights” = redistribution of wealth just as “home ownership” = redistribution of wealth (when the fraud is revealed — never mind what happened to 40% of everyone’s wealth). Forgiving student loans looms large and will no doubt remove more of our wealth.
....home ownership RIGHTS = redistribution of wealth....
I don’t think that at age 18 a person should be disqualified from college for life. True, some are a litle too immature or go to make their parents happy or avoid entering the work force.
As a 54 year adult (with a BS degree for the early 80s) I have started taking math classes at my local community college and my unscientific observations would indicate that the public schools are really to blame for our poor math skills.
When I first decided to go back to college, I applied to my community college and was notified that I would have to take the COMPASS placement test. For about 5 or 6 weeks before I took the test I studied basic math (pre-algebra) and I mean I put a serious effort into it. The results of the compass test placed me into elementary algebra and I came very close to intermediate algebra.
I took elementary algebra and worked very hard to receive a B. More than half of the class either failed for dropped out. If I had scored just a few points higher on the COMPASS test and took intermediate algebra it would have been a train wreck!
All this to say that my experience is that the placement test (COMPASS at least) overrates the students ability, not underrates. Any algebra at the college level is in truth high school math skills. My class, elementary algebra is first year high school algebra in 1 semester. Intermediate algebra is 2nd year (algebra 2) and college algebra is approx to pre-calculus.
My community college offers by numbers the following for fall 2012:
basic math (pre-algebra) 26 classes
elementary algebra 31 classes
intermediate algebra 28 classes
by comparison, some of the higher level math are offered
college algebra 8 classes
trig 2 classes
1st semester calc. 3 classes
My experience is that the high schools are simply not teaching algebra and the only (or best) place to learn it post secondary school is in college.
Just my opinion.
I had a feeling I was going to enjoy it so I poked around in the main page. Excellent blog! Especially loved “Teen Estrogen Claymores,” that hits home. Thanks for posting it!
You are right on the money there.
You may disagree with me--in fact, I'm fairly sure you will--but so many posters on the "college worthiness" threads fail to understand that employers are looking for people capable of being trained and among the populations they are considering are those who have graduated from college and are perceived to have the intelligence to be trainable. They have other qualities, of course, to include a substantial familiarity with the English language, and by graduating have demonstrated that they stick to the task at hand over long periods of time.
But so many FReepers worship at the foot of the great god ENGINEERING and exclude these possibilities. That is narrow-mindedness in all its glory.
Translation: The teachers and principal at the Robert A. Milikan High School are LIARS!
These teachers and the principal have LIED to the student, his parents, and the taxpayers. metmom: This is another reason to homeschool. When teachers pass on students to the next grade who are unprepared they are LIARS. When then give out good grades that are undeserved they are LYING! Why would any parent entrust their children to LIARS!
Agreed that it is dumb.
Typical trend in colleges and universities nationwide that are having to accommodate the FAILURE of our K12 education system. I repeatedly teach Freshmen having come straight from/out of high school who cannot even write a cohesive paragraph or read and follow simple written instruction(s). =.=
Neither do I. There are other venues for remedial classes, such as community colleges and so forth, that can ensure that students are actually prepared for college. But, truly, if a person gets to age 18 and isn't ready for college, there are maybe three reasons why:
1. The school system failed him, and now he's got to go back and do remedial work on his own dime to cover what should have been covered in grades 9-12.
2. The person's an immature 18 and needs to grow up a little prior to being ready to take on the challenges of the university;
3. The person doesn't belong in college and would be better served by a tech school.
Not everyone belongs in a university. My wife and I both attended, but I'm not sure all our kids will.
Simple, just lower the standards of the math class to the point where everyone can pass it.
The article and others like it in the popular press are about community colleges and doing away with placement tests.
Yes they LIED, but that is only the half of it, in my opinion they did much, much worse, they committed Felony Fraud on Numerous occasions.
They willfully and Knowingly FALSIFIED official Government Records for monetary gain. 20 years to Life for anyone else committing FRAUD on this Level.
They willfully and Knowingly Defrauded the Taxpayers by accepting monies for a Job that was never done, and then lied about it in OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS. 25 years to Life for anyone else.
But hey, I bet all these proud morons can put condoms on in the dark, probably in 2 languages to boot.
As far as I am concerned the Vast majority of teachers and administrators should be imprisoned for LIFE for refusing to be truthful and Honest, FAIL ALL THESE LOSERS and Start expelling people for bad behavior, it worked in the fifties and sixties and it will work again.
I am new to high school AP stuff, as my child is entering 9th grade, but in our public school district, anybody can take an AP class, whether they are prepared for it or not. The counselors will try to discourage you if you are not a stellar student. They will warn you that you are wasting time and money, but you can still take it.
The article didn’t say what this guy’s AP test score was, did it, only that he had done well on his grades in the class? The grades during the semester don’t matter. It’s the official test at the end that matters.
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They're happy getting their "My Child is an Honor Student" bumper sticker (never mind that it's false flattery doled out to cover up their crime of not educating students. They're in the business of building up and maintaining the teacher union marching army and their lock-step support of the LIBERAL agenda).
Can you explain to me....why any college should be offering remedial classes?
The "education establishment" is all about making money for the "education establishment".
So one of the keys is making a high percentage of the undergrads take 5 yrs instead of 4 to graduate. And believe me those remedial classes cost just as much as the "real" ones.
Wow! Felony Fraud for falsifying government documents! 25 years to LIFE! I never considered this. It is about time we did!
This is a very **good** idea and I hope this idea of FELLONY FRAUD grows big, long, strong LEGS!
The better question is...."WHY aren't these kids already prepared for college?"
Of course....I already know the answer to that question also.
1)make unlimited subsidized loans available to students
2)schools raise prices to absorb available cash
3)schools pay profs and admins excessive salaries
4)profs and admins donate to Democrats
It's not a Breitbart.com Web site ... yet.
“...The system is expected to especially benefit black and Latino students, who are disproportionately assigned to remedial classes, said Long Beach City College President Eloy Oakley....”
Oakley espouses the logic of a gnat. By placing students in classes based on high school grades they probably never deserved to receive, Oakley is providing a virtual guarantee that the students will fail. I suspect if you deem failure a benefit, Oakley has developed the formula for it.
Years ago I worked at a medium sized Machine shop. Every year we would hire 5-7 "Engineers" and end up keeping 1 maybe 2. After numerous complaints from the people on the floor the company began a program. Each of these young men or women would about 8 weeks working with a senior person on the floor. This meant they spent about 4 months learning the ropes. The head engineer was very good and if we told him that one of his hires was not cutting the mustard they were gone at the end of the day.
The shortest time we had someone was about 4 hours. I sent him to the store room for some 2" 1/4 20's. He came back after 1/2 hour and asked 1/4 20 what? I went right to the head Engineers office.
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Businesses are NOT ALLOWED to give or use placement tests that flunk a disproportionate number of minority test takers (have "disparate impact"). The Supreme Court case on this was Griggs V Duke Power (1971)
Prior to this, companies could hire smart people out of high school. Now they have to use a college degree as an (expensive to the applicant) indicator of basic literacy.
We have to get rid of the EEOC and its enabling legislation.