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Almost 50% of Americans on government assistance

Posted on 07/09/2012 7:43:54 PM PDT by MaryLou1

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To: Starstruck

Those willing to serve their country with their lives, deserve to be looked after by their country should they survive. There’s a difference between getting a pension because you turn 65 and between getting a pension in service of your country.


101 posted on 07/11/2012 3:45:49 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: muawiyah

End social security first and then we can talk about asset divestiture.

I have no problem with selling off land and assets of the state in order to repay the obligation. It’s far fairer than continuing the ponzi scheme.

However, are you sure you want this? You’d get out exactly what you put in, no more no less. Most folks who are already collecting have collected far in excess to what they paid. You wouldn’t get very much out since there’s no obligation to account for inflation.


102 posted on 07/11/2012 3:51:04 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: JCBreckenridge
I was targeting the folks who think the whole Social Security thing can be forgotten without consequences.

Besides widespread looting, rioting, robbery and murder one of the problems is the members of Congress would find themselves without homes, families or safety.

I really doubt anarchy is the route anyone wants to take.

On the other hand, the US government owns land with resources.

Somebody forgot to pay attention to Newt Gingrich. He identified a single chunk of federal land where the anticipated royalties for oil extraction from proven reserves is well over $100 trillion.

A debtor with that kind of asset has no excuse for not paying his bills.

103 posted on 07/11/2012 5:19:28 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: JCBreckenridge

Thanks for your kind words, JC.


104 posted on 07/11/2012 5:21:54 AM PDT by Ax
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To: muawiyah

“A debtor with that kind of asset has no excuse for not paying his bills.”

Here’s the problem. Rather than reforming the system, we’re kicking the can down the road.

What’s going to happen when there’s no money out there to pay into social security? All these dangers you list are an inevitable consequence of maintaining the status quo.


105 posted on 07/11/2012 5:47:36 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: JCBreckenridge
Matter of scale. It took 200+ years to get $16 trillion in the hole, how many years does $100 trillion get us?

We'll have several different kinds of free hydrogen fusion energy sources by then ~

106 posted on 07/11/2012 5:55:40 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: MaryLou1
You are still piddling around with a statistical trick. They are talking about HOUSEHOLDS with at least a single member receiving some benefit like that.

They are NOT talking about every single member in the household receiving benefits.

Grandpa on SSI ~ after being run down by an illegal alien in 1985 ~ he counts, but the kids and grandkids, all of whom have jobs don't!

That's just the statistics ~ then there are people who simply do not believe in Obama Money. They know where the welfare comes from ~ and they're not inclined one way or the other to vote for any particular politician on account of their check.

107 posted on 07/11/2012 6:00:33 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

I see. So you aren’t worried about the impending fiscal collapse?


108 posted on 07/11/2012 6:53:44 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: JCBreckenridge
There is no impending fiscal collapse ~ there will be a reordering and restructuring and as soon as we can get rid of Obama and his fellow Luddites, things should be much better.

The United States simply does not need to repudiate debt ~ certainly not that owed to American citizens, and probably not that owed to foreigners.

109 posted on 07/11/2012 7:06:08 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

“There is no impending fiscal collapse ~ there will be a reordering and restructuring and as soon as we can get rid of Obama and his fellow Luddites, things should be much better.”

We’ve got at least 4 more years of massive overspending, and that’s assuming no more spending is piled on top of the spending that’s already there, and Obamacare gets repealed.

“The United States simply does not need to repudiate debt”

It’s at least 25 years before the US will be on sound financial footing. Depending on what damage the boomers do on their way out the door, might be even longer.


110 posted on 07/11/2012 7:28:27 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: JCBreckenridge
The immense debt piled up that's owed to Social Security was devised to smooth the transition of the Boomers through their older years.

Repudiating that debt is probably not in your best interest.

As far as being fiscally sound, any country with $100 trillion in assets in one small area is not in trouble.

Now, how to make some quick cash ~ totally different issue. To do that we collect tribute from those who benefit from our defense forces.

Worked for Greece, worked for Rome, worked for the Persians, the Chinese, the ancient Koreans, everybody did it that way.

When you're on top, you're on top and THEY OWE YOU!

111 posted on 07/11/2012 8:14:17 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: JCBreckenridge
You wouldn’t get very much out since there’s no obligation to account for inflation.

I'd take it in a heartbeat.

About a quarter mil.

112 posted on 07/11/2012 8:21:28 AM PDT by nascarnation
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To: CodeToad
We no longer have a constitutional republic, we have a democracy and the wolves are voting to eat the sheep.

Well played.

113 posted on 07/11/2012 8:23:54 AM PDT by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: JCBreckenridge
They are entitled to their (SS) money.

If they're entitled, why did you call them welfare cheats and thieves?

114 posted on 07/11/2012 9:03:35 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: muawiyah

I gave you a cite to a USN&WR report that says 2012 unemployment rates for RNs (nationwide) is 5.5%. You say “they aren’t hiring.”

Here’s a link to the AJC for RN classified ads. About 200 ads for RNs of different types, none older than 29 days.

You may have anecdotal experience with your acquaintences, and it may be that California RNs are having a tough time. However, here in Georgia, that does not compute. There is no evidence otherwise than a better-than-job category unemployment rate.


115 posted on 07/11/2012 10:15:50 AM PDT by Gaffer (NOVEMBER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Gaffer; muawiyah

The AJC link:

http://jobsearch.local-jobs.monster.com/jobs/Georgia+Atlanta_12?q=Registered-Nurse&pg=2&where=Atlanta__2c-GA&rad=20-miles&re=130&wt.mc_n=hjnpsearch&ch=ajcjobs&cy=us&brd=1


116 posted on 07/11/2012 10:19:44 AM PDT by Gaffer (NOVEMBER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Gaffer
There's an unemployment rate among nurses, but that doesn't apply to employers. They never have an unemployment rate ~ just a bankruptcy rate.

Isn't that Metro Atlanta?

117 posted on 07/11/2012 10:32:46 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
There is an unemployment rate for nurses - the kind you allude to with your friends, putting that, I guess, off on 'employers not hiring' and then an an addled something about the Philipines....... It seems 200 ads for jobs (applicant RNs - yes, in the Metro Area but it is pretty much the same statewide -even in my small town in north Georgia) doesn't impress you, nor does data that cites a specific unemployment rate for RNs (which should mean something to you). All I get back from you is anecdotal lore and cryptic responses with nothing to back it up. I can't discuss this with you.
118 posted on 07/11/2012 10:46:03 AM PDT by Gaffer (NOVEMBER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Gaffer
I think you are missing the point. There may be a job opening in the area, or even 100 in the area BUT unless that job is accessible to the person who is unemployed it might as well not exist.

It's good to hear there are openings in Atlanta Metro ~ went through them and it looks heavy on the surgery side ~ which means you need just all sorts of certifications, not just an RN!

Nurses with technical certifications can achieve transfers and higher pay of course.

Not sure what you mean by anecdotal references ~ after you suggested someone with an RN might just wander in off the street into an RN job I presumed you knew all about the effect of technical specialties on job availability.

If not, I just gave you some hints.

We are working with some serious babysitting here while the DIL gets a new certification in surgical ICU.

Nursing is becoming incredibly specialized and matching the individual to the job is very important. You can't just take any old RN and put her into a job where turning a dial the wrong way might fry the patient to death. Ask Dick Cheney about his experience here in Fairfax. He had the "best".

119 posted on 07/11/2012 11:59:00 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
I can appreciate your personal circumtances with your DIL. However, her situation is unlike the one that I am talking about. An Experienced, capable RN, supposedly who seems not to be able to find an RN job here in metro Atlanta. She can't find a job because she doesn't want. That is why this whole converstation started. I realize and can appreciate all the specialization of nursing AND the requirements. My wife is a Dean's secretary of a well-known Nursing school here. There are no shortages of jobs for nurses - at least those that are willing to work.
120 posted on 07/11/2012 12:06:00 PM PDT by Gaffer (NOVEMBER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Gaffer

I can think of several reasons why I wouldn’t want an habitual gambler working around in a hospital. Maybe she has a criminal record you don’t know about.


121 posted on 07/11/2012 12:08:52 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

I did some research on these two. A real pair of lowlifes. They likely don’t have a criminal record, but they sure have figured out how to survive off of us. My opinion is that neither will EVER work a legitimate job again if Obama is re-elected. I pity their children.


122 posted on 07/11/2012 12:14:25 PM PDT by Gaffer (NOVEMBER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Gaffer

Having had some experience with gambling addicts it’s probably best neither of them ever have legitimate employment.


123 posted on 07/11/2012 3:46:15 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: dragnet2

“They are entitled to their (SS) money.”

Ooh, and we have a liar!

I said, they are entitled to their money.

They are not entitled to mine. Social Security is collecting money from me, to pay them, just like a ponzi scheme.

“why did you call them welfare cheats and thieves?”

They are theives insofar as they advocate stealing from other people in order to ‘get theirs’. Did I take money from them? No. Then why are they taking money from me? It’s not right.


124 posted on 07/11/2012 10:01:28 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: nascarnation

So you’re in favor of killing social security now?


125 posted on 07/11/2012 10:03:20 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: JCBreckenridge
I said, they are entitled to their money.

You also said and or clearly implied they're, "Welfare cheats and thieves”.

Which is it?

126 posted on 07/11/2012 10:08:25 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: JCBreckenridge
They are entitled to their (SS) money.

Ooh, and we have a liar!

We do?

Did you not say this in regards to Social Security?

If not, WTF are you talking about?

127 posted on 07/11/2012 10:12:33 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: muawiyah

“The immense debt piled up that’s owed to Social Security was devised to smooth the transition of the Boomers through their older years.”

And it’s been spent on goodies already.

“Repudiating that debt is probably not in your best interest.”

There are simply not enough young folks to pay it all. There are several options though.

1, raising taxes to 75 percent on everyone, just like it was pre-boomer era. That would be a nice FU to the folks like me trying to climb the ladder in the first place. It would ensure that the Boomers did ‘get there’s’ but would bring on a second Great depression.

2, keep taxes where they are and keep the payouts. This will run up the debt. The US is already at 120 percent of debt to GDP. Running 10 percent year over year deficits for 20 years to ensure that the boomers get theres, would leave us with a debt of close to 300 percent of GDP. Interest payments alone at 5 percent would amount to 15 percent of the US GDP. So, while that is a ‘solution’, it would destroy the US.

3, Eliminating social security. This would end the ponzi scheme, preserve the republic and ensure that the US has a future.

So which is your choice? 1 or 2 or 3? Please tell me.

“As far as being fiscally sound, any country with $100 trillion in assets in one small area is not in trouble.”

You’ve got your head in the sand.

“Worked for Greece, worked for Rome, worked for the Persians, the Chinese, the ancient Koreans, everybody did it that way.”

Ahahahahaha. Europe is broke. Even if you could get them to collect, you’d never get a dime.


128 posted on 07/11/2012 10:12:33 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: dragnet2

“Did you not say this in regards to Social Security?”

You altered my statement. That is a lie.

I said it very clearly. As long as Social security is collecting money from young people and paying it to older ones, it is generational theft.

If social security operated the way it should, your money would still be there in Kerry’s purported lockbox. That it is not, is not my problem. It does not excuse your theft that other people stole from you. I didn’t steal a dime, and you are stealing from me.

Now, if that’s difficult for you to grasp, I don’t know what to say.


129 posted on 07/11/2012 10:31:40 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: JCBreckenridge
They are entitled to their money.

You altered my statement. That is a lie.

Listen, I asked you a simple legitimate question which you're now evading.

Did you not say this in regards to Social Security?

130 posted on 07/11/2012 10:40:42 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

“Did you not say this in regards to Social Security?”

Why did you alter it?


131 posted on 07/11/2012 10:51:50 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: JCBreckenridge
Did you not say this in regards to Social Security?

Why did you alter it?

Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit.

BTW slick, did ya see the parentheses used?

Now are you going to answer the question, or play your stupid little game of deceit?

132 posted on 07/11/2012 10:59:00 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

“BTW slick, did ya see the parentheses used?”

And why did you add them?


133 posted on 07/11/2012 11:36:31 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: JCBreckenridge

What a lying deceitful piece of work you are.

Since you evaded the question multiple times...

See the tagline! You defined it el perfecto.

See ya!


134 posted on 07/12/2012 12:09:57 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

Heh, I’m not the one rewriting people’s words, *just because*.


135 posted on 07/12/2012 1:30:18 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: JCBreckenridge
Europeans aren't without assets ~ many of them in America!

Again, you go to bankruptcy court they aren't concerned with just your cash in hand, they want to know where your assets are ~ even those you thought were hidden.

The US Government has assets to pledge against debt. That should be done first before tossing the old folks into the streets ~

136 posted on 07/12/2012 3:25:03 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: JCBreckenridge
I get a kick out of backing liars and BS'ers like you into a corner, to the point where they spend all their time evading a simple legitimate question.

Ya see the Internet makes a great witness. Anyone can read back to see why questions are being evaded.

Watching people like you answer a question with a question, is a real kick! It's like a written confession!

Those who repeatedly evade questions, like you, do so for good reason.

Anytime you want to play, ping me.

137 posted on 07/12/2012 8:19:26 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

Why did you change what I wrote?


138 posted on 07/12/2012 5:03:42 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: muawiyah

“The US Government has assets to pledge against debt. That should be done first before tossing the old folks into the streets.”

The first thing that has to be done is to enact fiscal sanity. That means getting rid of social security.

You’re right, we should do everything possible. However, what you aren’t getting is that if we just keep kicking the can down the road (like you propose), the money going to the seniors isn’t going to be there. What then? Your answer seems to be ‘borrow more’. See, this is why my generation is getting so pissed off at the folks on the dole.

THERE ISN’T GOING TO BE MONEY TO PAY OUT SOCIAL SECURITY BECAUSE THE YOUNGUNS DON”T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY.

Say we give all of you your quarter million. That’s about 60 million people x 250 thousand, or 15 TRILLION dollars.

That’s right, 15 TRILLION dollars. You’re willing to bankrup the nation rather than avert fiscal apocalypse. Some of us have to live in the America left to come.


139 posted on 07/12/2012 5:09:12 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: JCBreckenridge
We are starting the discussion at $100,000,000,000,000 ~ not a mere $16,000,000,000,000.

And certainly not at the pitiful $6,000,000,000,000 borrowed from Social Security to pay for government backed mortgages and educational loans.

You have, at a minimum, $100 TRILLION in negotiable assets in just one hydrocarbon site. There are several other sites of possibly equal value.

Someone with $100 trillion in assets cannot plead poverty as an excuse in the face of a mere $6 trillion debt.

To invoke the privilege of age and class warfare as justification for screwing the creditors is ridiculous.

140 posted on 07/12/2012 6:57:58 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

“And certainly not at the pitiful $6,000,000,000,000 borrowed from Social Security to pay for government backed mortgages and educational loans.”

Money that went for goodies that the boomers have already received.

“Someone with $100 trillion in assets cannot plead poverty as an excuse in the face of a mere $6 trillion debt.”

So tell me why that asset should be given away to people who have spent the assets that they did have?

“To invoke the privilege of age and class warfare as justification for screwing the creditors is ridiculous.”

Why not? That’s exactly what social security does. It invokes the privilege of age.


141 posted on 07/12/2012 7:12:57 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: JCBreckenridge
Alas, with the privilege of age you die sooner.

Here's your problem ~ the $6 trillion was taken from the Boomers IN ADVANCE of the actuarially determined need.

It was spent on cr*p by people long dead.

Now you want to have that obligation canceled so you can do what?

Isn't it enough that housing prices have been cut in half?

142 posted on 07/12/2012 7:19:37 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: JCBreckenridge
Alas, with the privilege of age you die sooner.

Here's your problem ~ the $6 trillion was taken from the Boomers IN ADVANCE of the actuarially determined need.

It was spent on cr*p by people long dead.

Now you want to have that obligation canceled so you can do what?

Isn't it enough that housing prices have been cut in half?

143 posted on 07/12/2012 7:20:09 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

“Here’s your problem ~ the $6 trillion was taken from the Boomers IN ADVANCE of the actuarially determined need.”

Money that the boomers themselves took out to pay for toys and goodies.

“It was spent on cr*p by people long dead.”

You said it was used to fund housing and education. Seems to me Boomers made a decision and are unhappy with the results of that decision.

“Now you want to have that obligation canceled so you can do what?”

What obligation do I have to pay into social security? Is it constitutional? I don’t want social security. I’m ok with not receiving a penny. I’d much rather stash my own money away and make more.

I want social security done away with because:

1, it’s a ponzi scheme.
2, it’s one of the largest wastes of money by the government
3, it does a terrible job of the one thing it is supposed to do - give you a return on your ‘investment’.

We could have scrapped it 12 years ago, but the Boomers said no then. Now they are pissy that people want to scrap it now. Cry me a river.

You had your chance to do the right thing and kill an unconstitutional relic. But you want to get your hand up to the trough first before you check out.

And you’ll get it to - by bankrupting the nation along the way. Who cares about the future so long as I got mine!

“Isn’t it enough that housing prices have been cut in half?”

Thank God they’ve fallen somewhat back to sane levels. Housing should be about 3x what people make. Now we might be able to actually afford a house if anyone is willing to hire us for 30k or so a year.


144 posted on 07/12/2012 7:50:03 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: JCBreckenridge
No one talked about canceling it ~ they proposed allowing folks to direct 1/3 of their payment to something other than US bonds.

Whether it's constitutional or not, it's there ~ the money was seized at the point of a gun from people who would want it back.

You can't just cancel out the debt ~ that is theft.

145 posted on 07/12/2012 8:00:16 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: MaryLou1; All

Thanks for this thread.

Any one of us that has the Proud Welfare Eagle fly over our mail box knows that we are on the Federal Entitlement Tax Slavery Plantation.

THE MAN lives in THE BIG HOUSE at 1600 Plantation Avenue, District of Corruption.

As Federal Entitlement Tax Slaves we can vote in anything that we want to - - - , we ARE the 50 % !


146 posted on 07/12/2012 8:16:53 PM PDT by Graewoulf ((Traitor John Roberts' Obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: muawiyah

“Whether it’s constitutional or not, it’s there ~ the money was seized at the point of a gun from people who would want it back.”

And it’s still seizing money at the point of the gun from people who want it back. It hasn’t stopped doing this.

“You can’t just cancel out the debt ~ that is theft.”

And stealing it from your children isn’t? Do you think your child doesn’t notice you running through his piggy bank? What do you think your child is going to think when he sees this?

Everyone has their own responsibility to look after their own retirement. It was wrong that the money was stolen from you, I agree. But it’s not less wrong to steal that money from other people. This is why social security has to end.

As far as I’m concerned, either you guys end it, or we will. If it means that my generation is the one that pays in and gets nothing out of it, then fine. At least our kids are going to have a future.


147 posted on 07/12/2012 8:34:18 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: JCBreckenridge
Drill Here, Drill Now ~ i can't believe i'm talking to someone who has no sense of the value of hydrocarbon deposits.

Look, Social Security is chump change compared to the wealth in this country that is held by the federal government.

148 posted on 07/12/2012 8:36:44 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Kick the can, kick the can. Just keep kicking that can down the road and leave the mess for others to clean up.


149 posted on 07/13/2012 5:13:40 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: JCBreckenridge

i think the can has quite a ways to go before we start tossing the old folks out in the road.


150 posted on 07/13/2012 5:17:46 AM PDT by muawiyah
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