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Posted on 07/24/2012 9:11:40 AM PDT by neverdem
Here's the link.
> Other than being twisted, what makes these bulbs different than the straight tube fluorescent bulbs?
Not much. It’s almost identical technology to that used in the fluorescent bulbs we all have known and used for five decades, in our homes, offices, shops, etc. The only significant difference is that CFLs use a higher frequency of electrical stimulation of the ionized gas, to reduce the “flicker” of the classic straight tube and circular tube types. And that is an improvement.
All fluorescent tubes have mercury. All fluorescent tubes are potentially dangerous for the identical reasons. And always have been. How many people do you know who we’re killed by classic fluorescent bulbs?
The legitimate objection to CFLs is that they’re being forced on us. But this talk of how they’re some new kind of Evil Tech Device is just silly.
Some people vastly prefer incandescent for reading and close work so for them and me it is evil. Foisting compact fluorescent on us is evil. No more 100 watters. 75 watts will be banned next January. Ridiculous and evil
You want 100 watt conventional bulbs? Find them on ebay for double-triple the old price
I use all three types... Incandescent, straight FLs, and CFLs, depending on the application. They all have their places.
I strenuously object to the goober mint telling me what kind of bulb I can or can’t use where. Damn bunch of control freak fascists, they are.
I have several very good LED lights in my home where they can be used. I like them; the only problem with them is the initial cost.
I guess in the long run, lifetime of the LEDs would beat out incandescent or fluorescent lights, but that’s just the LEDs - semi conductors, basically. However, there are other component parts in these lights. Transformers, rectifiers, capacitors (likely), voltage regulators, resistors, etc. These are what I’d think will limit the lifetime of LED lights. Time will tell, if I live that long.
Where are people finding $50 LEDs? I have been working on replacing all of my lights with LED and have never paid $50.
Energy efficency and cost for sure, and maybe the tendency to leak UVA and UVC light, the latter possibly due to its unique shape.
Thanks for the link.
I hope it doeesn't. It's a shining example of the crappy laws passed by rats based on crappy, half-baked science!
They are considerably different in where the starting components are located and that is another danger. The older tube type fluorescent bulbs used a ballast to start and it was a step up transformer. With that the bulb could even be used outside. The ballast did put off some heat {I used too change them out daily} but were reliable which is why commercial application was used that and building vibrations that made incandescents blow in a matter of hours.
There is evidence that CFL's can cause fires and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why. Placing the starting components {electronic ballast} in the base of the bulb doesn't allow for the heat to safely be displaced thus the starting components burn out literally. This would especially be true where utilities have the voltage jacked up to the upper limits of allowable which is the trend as of late.
The electronic ballast is also why a fluorescent bulb of any shape will not function outside in colder temps. They lack that extra kick to heat the gas in colder temps the transformer ballast had. Of course the makers knew this about them and said nothing because CFL's mean larger profits for them. I can not see a CFL ever paying for itself. One reason being for most persons you must buy 2-3 of them to give the lighting coverage of an incandescent.
Everything may contribute to cancer.
Yup! I like ye ol 48” florescents in some places, usually the “daylight” full spectrum type. The CFs I boycott. Have no use for them.
Thanks for the link
CFL bulbs are self contained units. They contain the ballast and some electronics. A "standard straight (homophobic term!) bulb" needs a balast that is built into the lighting unit.
Couple of minor corrections...
> The older tube type fluorescent bulbs used a ballast to start and it was a step up transformer.
No, it was an inductor, not a transformer. The inductor limited the current once the arc was established.
> The electronic ballast is also why a fluorescent bulb of any shape will not function outside in colder temps. They lack that extra kick to heat the gas in colder temps the transformer ballast had.
I recommend you check a wiring diagram. What you’re thinking of is the inductive kick during startup, which the CFLs do also — they have to, to establish the arc.
FWIW, I have used CFLs outdoors in temps down to 10degF where straight bulb FLs didn’t work — and vice versa. Mostly it depends on the quality of the bulb and the electrical components. Crappy CFLs and crappy straight FLs both suck in the cold. I generally use an incandescent in cold applications.
With regard to “lighting coverage”, lumens are lumens. If the spectral characteristics are similar, and the lumen ratings are similar, most people can’t tell the difference in the light in a room.
The real problem is that the damn goober mint is trying to force us to use the CFLs everywhere, against our will. And without regard to matching the characteristics properly against the “standard” incandescent spectrum. That’s just stupid and wrong.
I resent being forced to use anything I don’t want to use. Let’s not confuse politics with science, though. The CFLs are just another type of bulb, with its plusses and minuses, not the Spawn of Satan as some folks would have us believe.
I have so many incandescents that I put them in my will!
A ballast is in fact a step up transformer from 120 VAC to several thousand volts actually. I'm talking about the about 3" X 6" ballast common to older fixtures.
I recommend you check a wiring diagram. What you’re thinking of is the inductive kick during startup, which the CFLs do also — they have to, to establish the arc.
I do know this much. Never buy newer electronic ballast shop tube lights and put them in an outside shed they won't work. The old reliable transformer ballast will however light it up.
http://www.ehow.com/how_4843370_test-ballasts-fluorescent-light-fixtures.html
Turns out we're both right. :) I was describing the simple (older) single-winding inductor type ballast, usable for bulbs up to about 4-ft length; you were describing the auto-transformer type ballast, usable for longer bulbs where more voltage is needed to establish the arc over the greater length (also usable with shorter bulbs, though unnecessary).
However, I'm unaware of any auto-transformer types that develop "several thousand" Volts; I thought it was a few hundred (a factor of 2 increase) rather than a few thousand (a factor of perhaps 20). Do you happen to have a link to such a component? If they exist, I'd like to learn about them.
> Never buy newer electronic ballast shop tube lights and put them in an outside shed they won't work. The old reliable transformer ballast will however light it up.
I accept your advice, thanks!
Regarding the link you posted, I find two things curious about the "contributor's" brief article. First, as above, I have a hard time believing the transformer develops "thousands" of volts; that seems both unlikely and unnecessary. But I'll look around for an authoritative source, now that you've piqued my curiosity. Second, the contributor believes that filling the ballast with oil "reduces the heat created by the action of the transformer". I am unaware of any physics that could produce this effect. Transformer oil conducts/convects heat from the coils to the enclosure and helps avoid "hot-spots" that burn out windings. But oil can't "reduce" the heat produced by an electrical component unless it improves the component's electrical efficiency, and Ohm's Law doesn't care that the copper is in oil. So I think that the "contributor" is confused.
But again thank you for replying; you've given me something to research, which I appreciate.
Generally you could tell by looking at the tubes if it was bad the tubes IIRC took on a brownish tint. Here is another link for what it's worth. How an Electric Ballast Work
My background is Commercial/Industrial wiring and HVAC. I worked as a Maintenance Mechanic in large multi story nursing homes for the most part and I've been retired {medically} since 1994. I had about three years VOC/Tech courses related to both fields as well.
If you look at the secondary side wires on a ballast they are considerably smaller than the primary. You're dealing with a higher voltage and lower amperage. The same with a car engine. The ignition spark is several thousand volts and on older systems is obtained via what I learned it to be called as a kid reading Dads old study manuals was Pulsating DC caused from the distributor points which allowed the step up coil and capacitor to work. Coils and capacitors will work with PDC but not DC. An electric fence on farms or a good one rather is in excess of 5000 volts secondary.
I can't remember why specifically the voltage on a tube needed to be several thousand unless it was to actually heat the gas. It's been about 30 years since school LOL Perhaps the for lack of a better term I can think of right now the static in nature discharge from higher voltages would allow an arc & ignite the gas a lower voltage would not. Much in the same way you can tel if a fence is hot and not have to actually touch it. You can ease the back of your hand toward it slowly and you'll feel it before actual contact. .
The reasons they are used in commercial applications go well beyond the obvious long life. When you get into multi-story buildings you get internal problems from the structure itself to factor in. Buildings due to HVAC, elevators, and the nature of concrete decks have an unending vibration going on. A standard incandescent bulb will not take that abuse more than a week. A heavy filament incandescent will take it maybe a couple of months. When I began hording bulbs those were the kind I bought :>} In a home they last a good while. The tubes can go several years in most cases.
On the lights not working outside I remember after I built a storage shed/shop I decided to light it with 4 sets of 4' tube fixtures. The temps I'm guessing were in the low 20's. They would not function and they had the electronic ballast. I turned the heat on and they would light up. Needless to say I changed them out to incandescents.
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