Skip to comments.Anyone Else Getting Jerked Around Re-finacinga a Mortgage? (Vanity)
Posted on 07/29/2012 9:09:44 AM PDT by dagogo redux
Has anyone else here had the experience recently of having one of the large banks jerk them around on a home re-finance application?
Weve been at it for months now with Chase, with a constant, ongoing drip, drip, drip of requirements, including updates on many previously-submitted documents since the process has been going on now well into a new quarter. Discussing this with some friends this evening, it seems theyve had exactly the same hassles with Bank of America for over six months now, and have been through several rounds of re-submitting updated documents.
Our friends and us both have multiple personal and business accounts of longstanding with these banks, have always paid bills on time, have been loyal customers that have brought a lot of business to the banks, and have refinanced before with them a few years ago. All four of us have great incomes and excellent credit ratings. The pending mortgages are for about the same amount as the current mortgages, and are for a fraction of the appraised value of the house. In both cases the household incomes are many times what is needed, and the mortgages are backed with huge emergency funds.
Despite a sizable, non-refundable application fee, we and our friends are close to simply walking away from the application process, closing all our accounts, and taking our business to one of the remaining local banks. Talking to local bank representatives gets nothing more than evasiveness and excuses that don't seem to hold water. We are also on the verge of contacting the Better Business Bureau, bank regulators, as well as state and federal Congressional Reps.
We just refied with the credit union-—smoothe sailin
Have been trying to refi without success. I’m an ER doc, have stellar credit. Changed jobs 6 months ago and am now an independent contractor,can’t get a mortgage even though my income easily covers it and I have people calling me every day trying to give me a job. Don’t get it. I’m not trying to borrow MORE money, just change who the check goes to and save on interest. They went from giving a mortgage to anyone with a pulse to not wanting to give anyone a mortgage.
Dealing with banks is like wrestling with greased pigs, isn’t it?
You only get a mortgage nowdays if you make minimum wage and have bad credit. Ask Jamie Gorelick or Barney Frank if you don’t believe me.
Took me from Thanksgiving to March with a refinance from B of A — including about 3 weeks due to their error. It was ridiculous especially since I have near perfect credit score and no non- mortgage debt. They kept coming back with more requests.
I refinanced through Wells Fargo. No costs and I took my loan from 5.6% to a 15 year and 3.125%. Monthly payment actually dropped.
Now I need to Dave Ramsey it and pay it off early, keep mind my house is at 65% value of what I paid for it.
I’ve always had good luck with smaller mortgage brokers. Have never used a giant like B of A or Chase for other than a credit card.
I tend to use the advice of my realtor on these issues, regarding who they like to work with. I’ve never in my life heard a realtor recommend B of A or Chase, or any big bank for that matter. So then the trick becomes finding a realtor whose advice is worth it.
Yes, it took me 6 months to get financing on my house when I had good credit, 15 years of work history at the same company, money in the bank for the down payment, and also had just sold my house of 9 years in which I made every payment on time.
It seemed to me that the lenders were basically clueless as to how to determine good credit risks.
It's very tough to get a loan when you're self-employed.
Shoot, it ain't even HALF that much fun...
A loan officer told me the problem is the reversion to a policy termed “full docs” that staff is unfamiliar with and therefore awkwardly outline in requested submissions.
They are all terrified of fed ratings.
Just went with Pentagon Federal Credit Union -no problem
They have always been unfailingly prompt and courteous and very competitive with products rates etc
Anyone can find a credit union to join!
Just out of curiosity- is it your credit score?
Even if you pay all the bills on time etc having too many accounts and too much on credit line can ding you
Want to join the Pentagon Federal Credit union?
Here is how -
Note that “civilians” with no military or govt association can join by becoming members of qualifying organizations- even being a Red Cross volunteer
“They kept coming back with more requests.”
I thought I might demand a similar set of “requests” of Chase: My rough draft to them follows:
Dear JPMorgan Chase
In considering our mortgage refinance application process, which is currently in progress with JPMorgan Chase, we would like to know more about the company we may do business with. Towards that end we have comprised a list of considerations we would like you to meet.
1. Internal memos related to stock performance since the 2007 high.
2. Internal memos related to the May, 2012 trading loss, and the Senate testimony of Mr. Jaime Dimon, CEO.
3. A ten year history of changes in credit ratings from Moodys, S&P, and Fitch.
4. Profit-Loss Statements during the same period.
5. Current balance sheet.
6. SEC Filings during the same period.
Personal credit ratings, and the last five federal tax returns, for all members of the Board of Directors and senior management.
A ten year history of Better Business Bureau ratings and complaints.
9. A ten year history of consumer and shareholder litigation.
Please mail these documents to our home address as soon as possible. Once reviewed, we will contact you periodically for further documents, as well as updates on the original ones.
see my post above on joining PFCU
We refinanced under the VRRL(Veterans Rate Reduction Loan) for VA loans.
It took us 30 days with USAA. We had to sign paperwork. Our initial loan was through them.
It was very, very pain free. We went from 6.5% to 3.4%. Saving $800 per month on our mortgage.
Are U daft? Why would you do business with a whore?
With USAA there was no out of pocket costs, no closing or appraisal fees. It didn’t cost a us dime.
Recently re-fi’d from a 30yr to 15yr with Discover Loans. Appraisal was $400 outside of closing, no closing costs, 3.125%.
Process was simple and funded in less than two weeks.
Credit unions don’t suck like big banks. Fees and hassles are pretty much non existent.
There are also (some) outstanding mortgage brokers out there that do much of the hard work for you. Just get a upfront disclosure of any fees.
We tried to refinance with Countrywide back in the day. Same experience - constant request for more/updated documents, calls for replacements of lost documents, constantly having to fax over things that had been faxed three or four times already - it was a nightmare. We asked them to give us a checklist of everything they would possibly need and we were told that such a thing didn’t exist.
My husband is normally a very mild-mannered gent, but even he had enough. When they asked for the same document for the third time, he said, “Do you do this for a living? Because you really suck at it.”
Needless to say, we took our business elsewhere. Smooth sailing with Farm Credit.
That's funny, I was wondering why anybody would want to go through Chase or B of A for anything right now? Let alone a refinance?
I understand that VA loans are constantly being barraged with refinace offers and are easier but to go through these large banks? It really has me baffled.
Bingo! Use a mortgage broker. If you don’t get your loan he doesn’t get his cut.
Additional comment to dagogo redux: Sorry you’re going through this, but afterwards, a good policy is to avoid B of A altogether. Writing letters of complaint is just an extra waste of time at best. They’re like Ernestine said of the phone company: “We don’t care. We don’t have to!”
I’d pull out immediately — of the process and the accounts — and leave them with the waste of time on their clocks and the egg on their faces.
I have other creative advice on dealing with banks, especially w/r/t mortgages, but I don’t think you’re THAT upset yet :)
We have had the same problem with a business loan.
PS, what I wrote applies to Chase as well. Avoid the big banks.
“Are U daft? Why would you do business with a whore?”
Good question, but the fact is that the whore took over Washington Mutual when it went bankrupt four years ago in the housing crisis, and we had had all our personal and business accounts and our original mortgage with WaMu for years.
We thought we’d see how the relationship went, and we were actually very pleased for the first three years. We felt like valued customers.
Our credit scores, for the person who asked, fluctuate a bit around the 800 level. Like the ER doc here, I’m in private practice, but I have been so for over three years, with a history of solid profit/loss statements comparable to the salaried income I had when we last refinanced. Wife’s an ER nurse working two jobs. Our income and credit ratings are rock solid. Heck, my wife’s even a minority! We simply don’t see the grounds for this treatment, unless they simply want to deny us the loan in order to make a buck on our non-refundable application fee, or unless they’re simply edging “The Rich” like us out of the picture in favor of more “valued” citizens.
Quicken Loans was a joke I quit. US Bank was simple and easy.
Other than an appraisal down 35% from one eight years ago that stopped the whole thing dead in it’s tracks, nah.
” I have other creative advice on dealing with banks, especially w/r/t mortgages, but I dont think youre THAT upset yet :) “
Try me! :)
To everyone who has replied so far - Thank You! Some very helpful advice and insight here. Please keep it coming.
I’ve got one more updated profit/loss statement almost completed (no small task), and if submitting it tomorrow doesn’t end this charade quickly we will be taking the advice offered here. Much appreciated.
I’ll vote for the credit union route. A friend (Army Colonel) was getting jerked around by the BoA at the Pentagon and I convinced him to walk over to Navy FCU. He did, and closed on the refi three weeks later. PFCU is also good (I belong to both, and have two mortgages with NFCU).
You’re in good company. Just google “chase bank mortgage complaints” and start reading. Here’s one link:
If you’ve already paid fees, maybe you should get a lawyer to send them a letter to help hurry things along or to ask for your money back? And of course, complain to the BBB and anyone else who will listen. I don’t trust the TBTF banks, and if I get another mortgage, I’ll look for a small local one or a credit union or somesuch.
I had just relocated to Orlando to take a software development job at Disney, and I was in the process of buying a house. I just assumed that the Disney credit union would be better than any bank, so I went there and started the application process.
While looking over the paperwork, I discovered that they has a "demand feature", which I had never heard of (this is my 3rd house, and my 5th or 6th mortgage). It turned out that they could call in the entire mortgage at any time for any reason, or no reason at all. In practice, they could "cancel" the mortgage if interest rates went up, thus eliminating the advantage of a fixed-rate mortgage, which this was.
I later discovered that they also tied any other loans into the mortgage, so that if you were late with a car payment (for example) they could use that to change the terms of the mortgage or even cancel it.
I have no idea how common this is, but watch out for it.
For background; I do this for a living for one of the biggest lenders.
You are suddenly self employed; guidelines generally want a 2 year history.
Our banks private banking area might be able to do it depending on your asset base.
Your situation is one that drives us crazy as loan officers. You would be considered a a top flight borrower by us; but the guidelines don't have the flexibility they used to.
Underwriters are all running scared. Every file is audited after closing to make sure every letter of every bank statement is documented correctly.
The investors (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac who everyones loans go to); look for any loophole if a loan goes bad in the future. They will make the lender buy the loan back if any small piece of info is missing from application.
It kind of stinks to be doing my job at times right now!
Suggestion: Either they don’t want to lend to you at a low interest rate knowing of the impending round of foreclosures currently accelerating across the country, or,they have bungled your paperwork. Go to the county recorder in your county and get all of the filings recorded for your property since you last re-financed. Ask yourself this question: “Who really has clear title to my property.” You may need an experienced lawyer to help you answer that question. Check livingies dot wordpress dot com may help you as well. Good luck.
I just closed a refi deal last Thursday. Smooth as silk.
High credit rating greases the path.
Take it to another bank.
That is simply eye-opening. Although many of those complaints are from people with upside down or distressed situations, many are not, and even the ones that are sound like the same sort of tactics are becoming institutionalized as policy. Thanks for the link.
We ARE going from 30 to 15. :(
Yes, we are in the middle of a re-finance. They keep asking for more info. First, they wanted the tax forms, now they want all the attachments. Then they wanted to know why we had so many addresses in the past 5 years. (a work related move, then temporarily stayed with my mother during the move). Now, the representative is going on vacation! It is with CITI.
Credit ratings approx 800 for both of us has NOT greased the path. :(
Refied our place on Cape Cod (MA) through the CC5 Cents Bank and start to finish was under 3 weeks.
Banks used to hired high school graduates and then educate their own. The result was a personality type that loved numbers, perfection, and dual-control while handling other people’s money.
In the 80’s, banks started hiring MBAs. MBA’s invented of the problems we have now.
Sorry to hear.
Pick another bank. Bankers want to refi.
BOA along with CITI were forced by the DOJ into an agreement to make all the loans they illegally foreclosed on using a robo-signer affordable by their borrowers.
This refinancing was to include reductions of interest rate, forgiveness of some debt, writing off certain additional fees of the foreclosure and extending the length of the loans.
I have gone through the endless requests for new docs, the lost docs and all the other hoops that Countrywide and BOA forced us to jump through.
One must remember that Countrywide was given over $45,000,000,000.00 to rewrite these loans and then BOA was given several billion more to make these loans affordable.
As part of the recent DOJ action, BOA has now been given several Billion again to refinance these loans.
It is because you are an independant contractor. My husband was making nice six figures in the early eighties when credit was tight and he couldnt buy or finance eaither because of IC status. in the 90’s banks loved our IC status because we had many streams of income.
I have a credit rating that makes me a minor goddess in banking circles.
I had a heck of a time getting a TD BANK loan to close last year. They just kept balling it up.
However, they kept my loan, as well as processing it. It was in the contract.
Many other friends closed and their loans are immediately freddicmacked or fanniemayed.
If God is good to me, I will be paid off in a year.
I’m sure God will be good to you.
A high credit rating indicates a good character.
What’s worse is that B of A quickly sold my loan to the Feds. I pay B of A but the govt owns it. At least I went from a 30 year to a 15 year, to pay it off very fast.
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