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Serious budget discussion needed - SERIOUSLY. (vanity)
You Tube Video ^ | 8/27/12 (here) | unknown

Posted on 08/27/2012 9:59:24 AM PDT by Baynative

This video is specific about the crash we can all expect given the current ethical make up of our congress. I think it should be shared and I'd like to hear pro or con commentary from folks here who are more educated in economics than I.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2012; budget; election; vanity
See the video here and ping the folks you know or send it on through email to solicit comments.

What my wife and I are discussing is the likelihood that our congress will not do the right thing and a collapse is inevitable. This leaves us wondering what we may have to do or where we may have to go to weather out the storm.

1 posted on 08/27/2012 9:59:38 AM PDT by Baynative
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To: TomGuy; geezerwheezer; Supernatural; jpl; SueRae; FourtySeven; ovrtaxt; ScaniaBoy; Cooter; ...

Ping for discussion


2 posted on 08/27/2012 10:03:17 AM PDT by Baynative (A man's admiration for absolute government is proportionate to the contempt he feels for others)
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To: Baynative

Move to the country if you. Put in a garden.


3 posted on 08/27/2012 10:04:56 AM PDT by richardtavor
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To: Baynative

Move to the country if you (can.) Put in a garden.


4 posted on 08/27/2012 10:06:17 AM PDT by richardtavor
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To: richardtavor

Move to the country if you (can.) Put in a garden if you can can.


5 posted on 08/27/2012 10:07:53 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: richardtavor
We live in the country and are working on expanding our garden. We have a friend who has a "fortified" 15 acres full of gardens fruit trees and lots of weapons and ammo. But, we are thinking even further out about what will happen if Greek style inflation prevails and our money becomes almost worthless.

What if it gets to the point that the government gets even more involved in controlling things and they are there to require a questionnaire be filled out when we need to go to the dentist or doctor ...or just get necessary staples or dry goods?

If our money becomes close to worthless is it better in a bank or a coffee can?

6 posted on 08/27/2012 10:11:23 AM PDT by Baynative (A man's admiration for absolute government is proportionate to the contempt he feels for others)
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To: Baynative

I say this in all seriousness.

Get this book
http://www.amazon.com/The-Zombie-Survival-Guide-Protection/dp/1400049628

Remove the word Zombie and replace it with “Feral Human”.

Make a plan to survive 2 months hunkered down.

Get a gun and Plenty of ammo. Learn to use it.

Most people will die quickly from disease, injury and exposure without the modern system to support them. Have many medical supplies on hand.

A country boy CAN survive. Ask yourself why. Follow his example.

I am not remotely kidding about any of this.


7 posted on 08/27/2012 10:14:51 AM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: Norm Lenhart

I am expecting the hardship to last much more than two months. The winter will change the dynamic for those who don’t heat with firewood and must pay for inflated utilities with money that may be all but worthless. I think the urban dwellers are in for a real bad time.


8 posted on 08/27/2012 10:18:32 AM PDT by Baynative (A man's admiration for absolute government is proportionate to the contempt he feels for others)
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To: Baynative

After 2 months, most will be either dead or wishing they were. At that point, it’s Road Warrior. It sounds insane and overwrought hype. But seriously look at what happens in a collapse. The details. All the day to day things that suddenly no longer exist.

It will happen fast. I have had this discussion several times with people and after they really get into the details of what actually happens, they tend to agree.

Also remember this. When law of man breaks down, the law of the jungle rules. And be prepared to live in that kind of world or ...


9 posted on 08/27/2012 10:23:03 AM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: DuncanWaring

I think that’s quite wise.


10 posted on 08/27/2012 10:36:24 AM PDT by ryan71
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To: Baynative

Thanks for the ping!


11 posted on 08/27/2012 10:37:37 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Baynative

I don’t think there will be full out sudden collapse. What I think is that there will be gradual economic decline and people will adjust to living with less over time.

I believe this:

The Americans will always do the right thing… after they’ve exhausted all the alternatives.” — Winston Churchill

That’s my view - others disagree.

If you’re fearful of bad economic times, it’s a comfort to pay off debts and place most of your assets in cash.

I am optimistic that if Romney wins, we will have economic growth for a time. Who knows how long. But at some point, we have to come to grips with the unsustainable nature of the major entitlements.


12 posted on 08/27/2012 10:40:09 AM PDT by randita (Paul Ryan is "Mr. Smith goes to Washington.")
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To: randita

“I don’t think there will be full out sudden collapse. What I think is that there will be gradual economic decline and people will adjust to living with less over time.”

I agree with you, and believe we have been living this for the past 20 years or so. Ever since we began transferring our wealth, jobs and technology to China. What has happened in the past four years has simply been an acceleration of the process. We in a vicious cycle of government dependency leading to repressed initiative and productivity, leading to government dependency.

If there is an end-game, it will be a semi-feudal society with technological trappings. But the great masses of people will be little better than urban serfs, with an omnipotent government doling out the ration of daily necessities.


13 posted on 08/27/2012 10:51:00 AM PDT by henkster (We're the slaves of the phony leaders...)
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To: Baynative

Serious cuts to entitlements? First, I don’t think there’s a politician that would seriously try to sell it. Look at half the people in the country. There’s no way they can be convinced to make cuts that would “hurt”.

Nope, it’s going to take a full blown collapse to change things and during that recovery time, which I think will last a few years, it’s going to be every man, woman and child for themselves.


14 posted on 08/27/2012 10:54:25 AM PDT by ryan71
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To: randita; Baynative; blam; SunkenCiv; SierraWasp; NormsRevenge
Rick Santelli was doing one of his classic rage rants on CMBC this morning....

Couple of knowledgeable eco, financial ministers in Canada and Germany have pulled out the word "Counterfeit" in referring to Bonds and Money....

Didn't quite comprehend everything...but at one point he was throwing printed bills out of his hand onto the floor at the CME in Chicago.....

Sorry I have nothing more detailed than that....

It was in response...(I think) to Bernankes letter to Issa stating the Fed stands ready to add easing if needed!

I will be watching the Kudlow Show for more details late afternoon out here!

That is on CNBC cable channels.

15 posted on 08/27/2012 10:54:51 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach ((The Global Warming Hoax was a Criminal Act....where is Al Gore?))
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To: ryan71

Totally agree. Look at Bosnia for an example. Even the areas not directly ‘at war’ were feral.

It WILL happen here.


16 posted on 08/27/2012 11:04:52 AM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: ryan71
The Ryan plan has laid out a serious look at how we can protect people who have paid into the system through their retirement and start making adjustments for those still working under the age of 55 in time to restructure and address our climbing debt.

The leeches in congress and especially the democrats are against taking a realistic approach.

The media seems to object also. That is a big obstacle in the way they can influence uneducated TV watchers.

17 posted on 08/27/2012 11:04:56 AM PDT by Baynative (A man's admiration for absolute government is proportionate to the contempt he feels for others)
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To: Baynative
If our money becomes close to worthless is it better in a bank or a coffee can?

When money becomes worthless, it will be safe on the public sidewalk. Items of value, however, will need to be locked up and protected.

18 posted on 08/27/2012 11:09:15 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: henkster
If there is an end-game, it will be a semi-feudal society with technological trappings.

The Hollywood asinine meme of people dressed in medieval clothing and chasing each other on horses...armed with laser pistols.

19 posted on 08/27/2012 11:13:11 AM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Baynative

My (layman) understanding of the problem, its magnitude, and my conclusions mirror those of sever others here.

Our gubmint “leaders” are doing anything but. There doesn’t appear to be a single lefty who appreciates the severity or urgency of our fiscal problems and not nearly enough pubbies.

Here in Washington state we’ve enjoyed “head in the sand” dhimmicrat rule for generations now so I know that, unlike Arizona or Texas, we don’t stand a chance of mending our own fences. Our government can be likened to an out of control freight train hurtling down the track, rushing headlong towards a washed-out bridge. And most of the passengers are consumed with arguing about the dinner menu.

So, like many others I concentrate on solving the problems that I can solve. Spending the money NOW to make certain that everything I own and depend on is in good working order. Making sure that I haven’t neglected my health. Paying off debt. Prepping. Gardening. Practicing. Preparing.

I have no confidence in our leaders - national, state, or local. I believe that the system they’ve devised is idiotic, top-heavy, and doomed to failure (of the catastrophic and spectacular variety). As much as humanly possible I try to craft a set of operating procedures that minimize any reliance on any part of them.

I foresee a coming trial by fire. I don’t see any avoiding it (because there are so few who are willing to read the writing on the wall). Perhaps things will be better the next time around - they certainly will be different.


20 posted on 08/27/2012 11:18:20 AM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: richardtavor
I moved my family out of San Diego to a nice house in Pocatello. Less feral humans. The garden idea is iffy. Our plum and apple trees blossomed in the early Spring warmup, then a killing frost took all the blossoms. No apples this year. The raspberries are typically large and juicy the first week of August. They are puny this year. The grapes rarely do well, but we were blessed with one nice cluster this year. Gardening isn't a winning strategy here.
21 posted on 08/27/2012 11:21:06 AM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Baynative
Wouldn't it be nice if we could actually have a serious budget discussion in this country?

Sadly, I don't think that we can, mostly because over the last ten years or so the liberals have gone stark raving insane.

22 posted on 08/27/2012 12:06:11 PM PDT by jpl (The government spent another half a million bucks in the time it just took you to read this tagline.)
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To: henkster; randita; rockrr; Kartographer

“I don’t think there will be full out sudden collapse. What I think is that there will be gradual economic decline and people will adjust to living with less over time.”

I too agree with you. Our lying bankers and politicians wouldn’t allow an overnight scene to happen. They are professionals not amateurs at lying to crowds.

A sudden collapse would be the result of a nuclear strike or a catastrophic earthquake, flooding or a series of tornadoes.

Even then I have a hard time seeing where it would engulf the entire nation. It would affect the entire nation, some areas much more seriously than others. I pray that if such an event were to occur that it would happen at night when the majority of families are together.

America is connected by millions of miles of pipeline that carry our water, aviation fuels, natural gas, sewage, electricity, telecommunications, etc. If the transfer centers were to have multiple ruptures then there wouldn’t be enough technicians and trained welders in the world to repair them in a year.

The large cities would be in serious trouble overnight if all of their highways became impassable. If you’ve got it, a truck brought it.

Imagine the railroads being shutdown because they can’t refuel the locomotives or the tracks are separated. The loss of receivables would crush one industry after another until they all close the doors.

Hospitals without running water or electricity and empty freight docks become warehouses for corpses rather quickly.

As rockrr said, “I have no confidence in our leaders - national, state, or local. I believe that the system they’ve devised is idiotic, top-heavy, and doomed to failure (of the catastrophic and spectacular variety).”

Having a bucket full of gold coins or hard cash isn’t going to be worth spit if there is no food available to buy. If you don’t have a good shotgun then you will be sitting there waiting for the looters to come to your door.

Keep in mind that when the police car drives down your street telling you to evacuate that the men inside it may be looters, not cops. When THE SHTF, that will be the time to think for yourself not follow orders like sheep.


23 posted on 08/27/2012 12:30:49 PM PDT by B4Ranch (There's Two Choices... Stand Up and Be Counted ... Or Line Up and Be Numbered .)
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To: Baynative

One of my biggest fears.


24 posted on 08/27/2012 12:46:19 PM PDT by richardtavor
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To: randita
What I think is that there will be gradual economic decline and people will adjust to living with less over time.

they already are:

Americans saw wealth plummet 40 percent from 2007 to 2010

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/fed-americans-wealth-dropped-40-percent/2012/06/11/gJQAlIsCVV_story.html

frogs in the boiling pot

25 posted on 08/27/2012 12:56:44 PM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: B4Ranch
Just this morning someone posted to a thread on the convention a sidebar article about comparisons to Katrina and posted a link to a u-toob of the New Orleans looters cops.
26 posted on 08/27/2012 1:21:02 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: Baynative
A longer video (43 min) and/or pdf-file with similar analysis, but longer on potential solutions. Well worth your time.

USA Inc

27 posted on 08/27/2012 1:23:44 PM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: B4Ranch
A sudden collapse would be the result of a nuclear strike or a catastrophic earthquake, flooding or a series of tornadoes.

Don't forget an Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) which I feel is entirely within the realm of possibility.

Consider an "innocent" cargo ship off the east or west coast hiding missile launch tubes. Pop up a couple of missiles with a nuke warhead or radio frequency weapon. Detonate it 100-200 miles up.

The majority of the USA will be completely disabled in a nanosecond. THAT is a sudden collapse. Everything digital no longer works. Cars, trucks, buses, cell phones, smart phones, land line phones, computers, Internet, radios, video games, book readers (Kindle), walkie talkies, even your stove and fridge if they are digital. If you're 15 miles from home when it happens, how will you get home? How will you communicate with your loved ones? Not a shot was fired and yet the US is down for the count. And it will be at least 6 months to a year before meaningful help arrives.

Think I'm nuts? Go read One Second After by William-Forstchen with a forward by Newt Gringrich. You're eyes will be opened.

28 posted on 08/27/2012 2:06:52 PM PDT by upchuck ("Definition of 'racist:' someone that is winning an argument with a liberal." ~ Peter Brimelow)
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To: B4Ranch; henkster; randita; rockrr

We are on the Razor’s edge with our economics, government and our society and it won’t take much to pull things over the edge like a row of dominoes.

Personally I expect something much like the well I think that we are in for something like the collapse of Argentina ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yerKMQc7-w&feature=grec_index )but on a global scale.

Additionally I think we will see a much more violent version. As recent events show (Flash Mobs, OWS, etc) we have a larger entitlement minded population and violent prone and armed population than Argentina. I see many many small business wiped out by flash mob looting, and see rape, robbery and murder for murder sake.

Many of these ‘yutes’ will think no more about killing you than most people think about stepping on a roach. That will be the test of many. Most preppers I know are Christian people and they will hesitate to do what they might have to do to stop the ‘yutes’. On the other hand the ‘yutes’ won’t think twice nor lose a minute of sleep, in fact they will smile and laugh about it.

I can’t help, but think of this quote which is one of my favorites:

“Star Trek: Deep Space Nine: The Siege of AR-558 (#7.8)” (1998)

Quark: “Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They’re a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don’t believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes.”

Clearly there’s a storm coming, as great as a hurricane and like you do when a hurricane comes your way you either prepare to weather it or you become a victim of it.

For those who are just starting or are old hands at prepping you may find my Preparedness Manual helpfull. You can download it at:

http://tomeaker.com/kart/Preparedness1j.pdf

NOTE! THIS IS A FREE DOWNLOAD. I DO NOT MAKE ONE CENT OFF MY PREPAREDNESS MANUAL!

For those of you who haven’t started already it’s time to prepare almost past time maybe. You needed to be stocking up on food guns, ammo, basic household supplies like soap, papergoods, cleaning supplies, good sturdy clothes including extra socks, underwear and extra shoes and boots, a extra couple changes of oil and filters for your car, tools, things you buy everyday start buying two and put one up.

As the LDS say “When the emergency is upon us the time for preparedness has past.”

Or as the bible says: A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.
NIV Proverbs 22:3

“There is no greater disaster than to underestimate danger.
Underestimation can be fatal.”


29 posted on 08/27/2012 2:26:30 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: upchuck

I agree with everything you say but that falls under “nuclear strike” IMO. If someone is foolish enuf to try it then hopefully our subs would clear their decks.

Thirty years ago I helped wire a LE man’s whole office as a Farraday cage so don’t think the entire system would go down. I keep a laptop pc with my radios and walkie talkies in a cage. A lot of people are prepped for that issue.

I keep wondering what is going to cause the collapse of the markets that Jim Rogers, Jr. is talking about.


30 posted on 08/27/2012 3:20:47 PM PDT by B4Ranch (There's Two Choices... Stand Up and Be Counted ... Or Line Up and Be Numbered .)
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To: B4Ranch
I agree with everything you say but that falls under “nuclear strike” IMO.

That is why I included the possibility of a radio wave weapon which is not nuclear. Not as powerful either, but still capable of creating tremendous, instantaneous damage and chaos.

If someone is foolish enuf to try it then hopefully our subs would clear their decks.

First ya gotta figure out "who" it was. With badly damaged operational capabilities, that may be initially impossible.

31 posted on 08/27/2012 4:51:48 PM PDT by upchuck ("Definition of 'racist:' someone that is winning an argument with a liberal." ~ Peter Brimelow)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

What did Kudlow have to say - I missed it.

Kudlow is one of my favorite economists. He’s pragmatic and he is also prescient.


32 posted on 08/27/2012 5:04:49 PM PDT by randita (Paul Ryan is "Mr. Smith goes to Washington.")
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To: randita
He is down in Tampa,....and he had nothing to say about Santelli or Bernake.....

He was totally on the Convention, Romney, Obama....etc.

No help on the morning topics.

33 posted on 08/27/2012 5:45:48 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach ((The Global Warming Hoax was a Criminal Act....where is Al Gore?))
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To: randita
He is down in Tampa,....and he had nothing to say about Santelli or Bernake.....

He was totally on the Convention, Romney, Obama....etc.

No help on the morning topics.

34 posted on 08/27/2012 5:46:22 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach ((The Global Warming Hoax was a Criminal Act....where is Al Gore?))
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To: henkster

“If there is an end-game, it will be a semi-feudal society with technological trappings. But the great masses of people will be little better than urban serfs, with an omnipotent government doling out the ration of daily necessities.”

Sounds a lot like the Hunger Games, which strangely enough was written by a Leftist.


35 posted on 08/27/2012 6:21:16 PM PDT by ConjunctionJunction
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To: Baynative; All

Good video, very good thread.

DEFUND socialist collectives, foreign and domestic. DISMANTLE domestic socialist programs. DEPOPULATE socialists from the body politic.

It’s easy to...

live - free - republic...

It’s the socialism, stupid (not directed at anyone on this forum).

BIG GOVERNMENT IS CRONY SOCIALISM (watch the link, again)

See some of the damage socialists have done to this great nation.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/ (watch the link, again)

BE PREPARED (read comments, again)

More crony socialism revealed...

http://dailybail.com/home/cronyism-revealed-goldman-ceo-lloyd-blankfeins-criminal-defe.html

(hat tip for the above link to Daily Bail...poster at zerohedge...Monday August 27, 2012 20.55),,,here...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/flashing-warning-unintended-consequences-ultra-easy-monetary-policy-fed#comments

BE PREPARED (read comments, again)

BE PREPARED (read comments, again)

BE PREPARED (read comments, again)


36 posted on 08/27/2012 9:16:48 PM PDT by PGalt
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To: Baynative

Ferfal’s blog on surviving Argentina’s collapse is an excellent resource. They’re years into a national collapse.


37 posted on 09/08/2012 1:51:34 PM PDT by tbw2
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