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Long past time to repeal the 17th Amendment
REPEAL THE 17TH NOW! ^

Posted on 11/21/2012 6:14:03 PM PST by ReaganÜberAlles

"What's wrong with the people choosing their own Senators?

For starters, this amendment strips power from the states, which ultimately strengthens the federal government. This Amendment removes an important check and balance between the federal government and the states."


TOPICS: Government; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: 17thamendment; repeal
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1 posted on 11/21/2012 6:14:07 PM PST by ReaganÜberAlles
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To: ReaganÜberAlles

Too many of the rank and file citizen are too uneducated to realize that the states themselves as an entity need representation too...


2 posted on 11/21/2012 6:18:06 PM PST by GraceG
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To: ReaganÜberAlles

...as if an Amendment to the Constitution (or the repeal thereof) would mean any more than the Constitution itself, which, of course, is no longer a “controlling legal authority”..


3 posted on 11/21/2012 6:18:22 PM PST by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: ReaganÜberAlles

Too many of the rank and file citizen are too uneducated to realize that the states themselves as an entity need representation too...


4 posted on 11/21/2012 6:18:26 PM PST by GraceG
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To: ReaganÜberAlles
Yes, Repeal It!

There is a sizable bloc of Tea Party supporters calling for repeal of the 17th Amendment to the United States Constitution. The 17th Amendment establishes direct, popular election of U.S. Senators, superseding Article 1, Section 3, Clauses 1 and 2 which empowered state legislatures to elect senators.

Here are some supporting articles:

17th Amendment Mudslinging

Tea Party Wants to Dump 17th Amendment?

Should We Repeal the 17th Amendment?

Repeal Direct Election of Senators?
5 posted on 11/21/2012 6:22:30 PM PST by VitacoreVision
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To: ReaganÜberAlles

Correct! Ironically, this amendment allowing people to vote for senators took power away from the people in each state. The state lost the power of having senators fight for what the states needed, and senators from various states joined together against what their individual states deemed necessary. Do away with this ASAP.


6 posted on 11/21/2012 6:22:46 PM PST by roadcat
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To: ReaganÜberAlles

Agree Heartily!


7 posted on 11/21/2012 6:24:27 PM PST by albionin
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To: cripplecreek

Ping.


8 posted on 11/21/2012 6:25:43 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: GraceG

Absolutely true! Undermines the Federal System. The House to represent the people, based on population, the Senate to represent the States, with two representatives per, so that the states may maintain what sovreignty they had via the Constitution. That’s exactly how I teach it to my High School senior Government class.


9 posted on 11/21/2012 6:26:05 PM PST by cumbo78
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To: ReaganÜberAlles
I agree that we need to repeal the 17th. along with the 16th, the 19th and anyone named Woodrow or Roosevelt
10 posted on 11/21/2012 6:29:04 PM PST by Cowman (How can the IRS seize property without a warrant if the 4th amendment still stands?)
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To: ReaganÜberAlles

I think we should just redo the whole thing and have the President chosen by the House from amongst the Senators (chosen by state legislatures) and Governors.

But if we could do that, can’t we just abolish the income tax amendment??


11 posted on 11/21/2012 6:29:46 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: cripplecreek

For your consideration Cripple.


12 posted on 11/21/2012 6:35:26 PM PST by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.-Sarah Palin)
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To: cumbo78
This issue has confused me for some time even though I've been through lengthy explanations form both points of view. If a state such as California elects its Senators in a general election of populist votes, they would (and have) end up with the two senators they currently have. If their legislature which is dominated in both houses by a democrat super majority were to pick the senators the outcome would not be changed.

How might the idea of repeal, as unlikely as it is, alter the outcome of what we do now?

13 posted on 11/21/2012 6:37:58 PM PST by Baynative
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To: ReaganÜberAlles

I would say that you would need a state to disobey the 17th amendment and elect senators via the state legislature. This would set up a supreme court case which could negate the 17th amendment. Or since the constitution allows the states to choose senators maybe nothing will happen other than congress not allowing them to be seated. It would be interesting if a state had the cajones to do it.


14 posted on 11/21/2012 6:38:28 PM PST by PJammers (I can't help it... It's my idiom!)
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To: KC_Lion

I’m fer it.


15 posted on 11/21/2012 6:40:43 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: PJammers
This would set up a supreme court case which could negate the 17th amendment.

The Supreme Court can't overturn amendments, by definition.

This is yet another stupid waste of time and energy that has zero chance of ever happening.

16 posted on 11/21/2012 6:43:00 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: Baynative
How might the idea of repeal, as unlikely as it is, alter the outcome of what we do now?

There are already 24 states with the GOP in control of both houses of the state legislature and governorships. That's 48 GOP senators right off the top. The democrats have 12 or 3 states giving them 24 to 26 democrat senators. The remaining states would likely split their senators between the parties giving the GOP a large majority.
17 posted on 11/21/2012 6:46:17 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: ReaganÜberAlles

No. I don’t trust the legislature.


18 posted on 11/21/2012 6:46:29 PM PST by RichInOC (Palin 2016: The Perfect Storm.)
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To: PJammers

I like your style. I just hope that there is one state that has the nerve to stand up and elect their own senators, and see what happens. Since the 17th was passed in 1913, I would love to see it happen on it’s 100th year anniversary ! !


19 posted on 11/21/2012 6:48:48 PM PST by aloppoct (stucnsf)
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To: ReaganÜberAlles

The 17TH removed a major check of Washington’s power in some very insidious ways. Our supreme Court rules at the pleasure of the Senate. Have you wondered why it seems that even conservative justices trivialize States rights? Our Supreme Court is no longer beholden to the individual states power to appoint the people who can deny their tenure.


20 posted on 11/21/2012 6:52:22 PM PST by rsobin
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To: cripplecreek

Which is why the idea that 2/3rds of the current senators and 75% of state legislatures would approve a repeal of the 17th Amendment is crack-smoking lunacy.


21 posted on 11/21/2012 6:52:50 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: aloppoct
I just hope that there is one state that has the nerve to stand up and elect their own senators, and see what happens.

I can tell you precisely what would happen; the Supreme Court would take about 5 minutes to vote 9-0 to send those Senators home.

22 posted on 11/21/2012 6:54:52 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: ReaganÜberAlles

Under Woodrow Wilson we got the 16th, 17th, 18th, and 19th Amendments as well as the War on Drugs, the Federal Reserve, and segregation of the military (he was a racist, too). And we thought Obama was bad.


23 posted on 11/21/2012 6:56:38 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Why is the government more concerned about protecting a microbe on Mars than an unborn baby here?)
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To: Strategerist

Crack smoking lunacy is clowns who desperately cling to progressive ideas like the 17th amendment snake oil.


24 posted on 11/21/2012 6:57:43 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: PJammers; fieldmarshaldj; Impy; Clintonfatigued; sickoflibs; AuH2ORepublican
>>> I would say that you would need a state to disobey the 17th amendment and elect senators via the state legislature. <<



Raw, Unlimited POWER!!! Myyyyyyyy preciousssss....

25 posted on 11/21/2012 6:58:18 PM PST by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: ReaganÜberAlles

The 17th amendment killed the Senate and created two Houses. The Senate was designed to be a direct check on Federal power by making the States part of the Federal government. The first batch of Progressives identified the Senate as the key element of the Republic and they destroyed it.


26 posted on 11/21/2012 6:59:32 PM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: ReaganÜberAlles

Utterly and completely idiotic. Why don’t we just have a King??

People should vote for their Representatives ... good or bad. Don’t like it? Then stop pretending you want to live in a democracy.


27 posted on 11/21/2012 7:03:09 PM PST by RIghtwardHo
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To: RIghtwardHo

He genius. You do realize that the constitutional method of choosing senators prior to the progressive 17th amendment was for the state legislatures to choose them?


28 posted on 11/21/2012 7:09:47 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

I’m not “clinging” to the 17th Amendment, I’m just pointing out that it’s politically impossible now, and politically impossible forever, to repeal it.

Here’s a helpful list of everything proposed to help a Republican win the Presidency in 2016 that is impossible, a waste of time, and so stupid because of the impossibility of accomplishing them, it actually is an embarassment to the Right:

1) Trying to get the Electoral College to change their votes
2) Trying to get states like California to change to picking electors by Congressional District.
3) Trying to repeal the 17th Amendment (though amusingly there are people on this thread that somehow it could somehow simply be overturned by the Supreme Court, which is even dumber.)
4) Trying to get “millions” of non-existent Republicans that didn’t vote in 2012 because Romney was a RINO to turn out in 2016.

And here’s a helpful list of things that might actually work:

1) Persuading about 2 million people that voted for Obama in 2012 to vote for the Republican candidate in 2016.


29 posted on 11/21/2012 7:10:14 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: RIghtwardHo
Then stop pretending you want to live in a democracy.

The United States is a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. The Framers of that Constitution created a Federal government, not a central government.

30 posted on 11/21/2012 7:11:17 PM PST by Sirius Lee (RE SP - Republicans, from Mitt Romney ..to Karl Rove... are said to be concerned she will win.")
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To: cripplecreek; fieldmarshaldj; Clintonfatigued; Impy
>> Crack smoking lunacy is clowns who desperately cling to progressive ideas like the 17th amendment snake oil. <<

Crack smoking lunacy is the idea that professional career politicians know what's best for us and that state legislatures will select far better Senators than we the people because they're so much wiser and smarter than us, and somehow magically less corrupt and statist than their federal counterparts.

It is the very antithesis of conservatism. Conservatism basically boils down to the concept that we individuals can make the best decisions for what's best for us, NOT the government. To quote Ronald Reagan: Government is the NOT solution to our problems, government IS the problem. It will be a cold day in hell before I give the crooks in my state legislature MORE power over my life.

31 posted on 11/21/2012 7:11:36 PM PST by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: cripplecreek

Thanks. I’ve never heard that explanation. The idea of state legislatures having to work for agreement by maybe sending a senator from each party hadn’t crept into my thick skull.


32 posted on 11/21/2012 7:13:24 PM PST by Baynative
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To: BillyBoy

So the founders were wrong and the progressives got it right?


33 posted on 11/21/2012 7:14:31 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: ReaganÜberAlles

Great idea. It would mean that people would need to pay attention to who they elect as state representatives.

It is highly reasonable.

Of course we can’t even get rid of Obama — as clear as a case for tossing out a bozo that there ever was — so what are the chances something like this would pass with an electorate of dunderheads?


34 posted on 11/21/2012 7:18:16 PM PST by garjog (Heroes Died. Obama Lied.)
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To: cripplecreek
>> He genius. You do realize that the constitutional method of choosing senators prior to the progressive 17th amendment was for the state legislatures to choose them? <<

Hey genius, you do realize that the "constitutional method" of choosing Vice Presidents prior to the 11th amendment was for the runner up in the electoral college to become Vice President?

Should Mitt Romney become Obama's veep because "the founders" set it up that way? Should Al Gore have been Bush's veep? How about putting Walter Mondale a heartbeat away from the Presidency in 1985?

No? So I guess in that case it was OKAY to change what "the founders" set up.

You do realize how idiotic it is to throw a temper tantrum about crooked politicians not being allowed to pick your Senators, by using the argument that it changed what the "founders" set up? Unless you'd like to ALSO repeal the 2nd amendment, 10th amendment, every amendment passed since 1791, etc., your argument is invalid.

Indeed, the founders themselves disagreed with you that their document was perfect as-is, that's why they put a clause in the constitution that allowed it to be amended in the first place.

35 posted on 11/21/2012 7:23:13 PM PST by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: Baynative
I live in a state with a GOP governor and a GOP majority in both houses of the legislature. Unfortunately Detroit, Ann Arbor, and Flint continue to elect Levin and Stabenow who consistently override the wishes of the state from the federal level at every opportunity.

The legislature that we elected is making a lot of regulatory cuts and limiting the power of the state regulators. Unfortunately Levin and Stabenow are happily voting for more federal regulations.

Prior to the 17th amendment, the state could have recalled them almost immediately for such behavior. Unfortunately the progs who wrote the 17th were smart enough to know that people would be unhappy so they made it impossible to recall them.
36 posted on 11/21/2012 7:24:02 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: ReaganÜberAlles

Stupid idea.
Most states have one party rule guaranteeing that the party in power would only appoint one of their own.

The only cure to our current problem of corrupt senators and representatives is term limits. As of now most of these guys get lifetime jobs once eleceted and are no longer responsible to the people.

Corrupt morons like Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Tom Daschle with a few thousand votes become co-presidents for life.


37 posted on 11/21/2012 7:25:06 PM PST by oldbill
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To: Strategerist

I agree with all your points except the last one. It’s over, we are past the point of no return. Why? Am I a quitter? No.

The communist plan since the 30’s was to take over first our educational system, and slowly brainwash generations of dumbed-down idiots who have a Marxist/atheist world view. Then take over the media to keep them totally brainwashed and away from all truth.

While we slept and had fun, totally blind to what they were doing - they took over.

Now we are being overwhelmed by the third generation of brainwashed kids now getting old enough to vote. From this point, there numbers will only increase. The gov. schools are pumping them out by the millions. As Rush said on Nov. 7th, “We’re outnumbered and losing ground.” From this point, we are simply outnumbered, and their advantage will only increase.

It’s likely that only a total collapse of our system and perhaps our nation will get us back to where there can be a reset.

I wish I were wrong, but no one has yet shown me a plan to overcome this situation. No one. And even if we did have a plan, it would take generations. We don’t have that time.


38 posted on 11/21/2012 7:31:17 PM PST by Arlis (.)
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To: Arlis

Bookmark


39 posted on 11/21/2012 7:34:08 PM PST by southland (TEA party will lead us)
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To: garjog

The 17th amendment was popular vote snake oil and as you can see, the rubes still buy it.


40 posted on 11/21/2012 7:36:40 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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Donate here!

FR is busting out everywhere!! Be a part of it.
Donate today!
HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE!



41 posted on 11/21/2012 7:45:10 PM PST by RedMDer (May we always be happy and may our enemies always know it. - Sarah Palin, 10-18-2010)
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To: RIghtwardHo
People should vote for their Representatives ... good or bad. Don’t like it? Then stop pretending you want to live in a democracy.

A textbook example of a result of progressive indoctrination masquerading as public education. A major (if not the primary) reason why we will never get out of the hole without a massive upheaval....

42 posted on 11/21/2012 8:02:11 PM PST by LaRueLaDue
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To: oldbill

There is one party rule now so you opposing this idea is stupid.


43 posted on 11/21/2012 8:05:48 PM PST by ReaganÜberAlles
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To: Arlis
I wish I were wrong, but no one has yet shown me a plan to overcome this situation. No one. And even if we did have a plan, it would take generations. We don’t have that time.

I totally agree, you hit the nail on the head. It will only be remedied with total collapse and reset, like you said. (Wish there was a "like" button...)

44 posted on 11/21/2012 8:06:00 PM PST by LaRueLaDue
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To: Baynative

The Senators, being appointed by the Governors, act as ambassadors for the state. They can’t be voted out, until there is a new governor, but they are sent to represent the interests of the governor’s office. Today, they are influenced SOLELY by special interests on both sides of the aisle.

The Senators, originally, in not having to campaign, could spend their time actually legislating. They could also afford to do unpopular but necessary things. More than that, they could be COMPETENT, rather than telegenic.

The 17th has been a killer, fiscally speaking.


45 posted on 11/21/2012 8:07:20 PM PST by RinaseaofDs
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To: RIghtwardHo

I live in a Republic. You don’t live in a Democracy


46 posted on 11/21/2012 8:08:45 PM PST by ReaganÜberAlles
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To: RinaseaofDs

While the calls for slant drilling under the great lakes grows louder in Michigan, Debbie Stabenow grows more strident in her opposition to it at the federal level.

I want my local control back.


47 posted on 11/21/2012 8:11:24 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Arlis

I agree with you, sir. Adams did too. He said that once you lose freedom, you can’t get it back - you have to start over. It’s just the way it works. It has to fall apart.

It has been ever thus.


48 posted on 11/21/2012 8:12:10 PM PST by RinaseaofDs
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To: ReaganÜberAlles

Absolutely. All for it!!!


49 posted on 11/21/2012 9:01:23 PM PST by RatRipper (Self-centeredness, greed, envy, deceit and lawless corruption has killed this once great nation.)
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To: LaRueLaDue

Progressive education is, first of all, an oxymoron. Rather, a great deal of education nowadays doesn’t encourage enough critical thinking. What’s interesting is that the so-called fascists are identical to the communists in 6 out of 10 of the Communist objectives also being true for the fascists, and the remainder only occurring at a milder pace for the fascists. In the sense, fascism is economically speaking, “Soft Communism” however, since an ever-decreasing amount of history nowadays is about critical thinking as opposed to regurgitating facts, we’re in deep trouble.

At this point, it’s pretty much about saving souls far more than saving America.


50 posted on 11/21/2012 9:19:08 PM PST by Morpheus2009
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