More Democrats Willing to Go Over 'Fiscal Cliff'

newsmax ^ | 11/27/12 | j feller

[DoughtyOne]

I think he has a point there... ;^)

Of course that ignores the possibility that they know exactly what they are doing.

Has anyone noticed there’s almost no push-back on any Leftist efforts these days?

Everything from active divisions on our soil to flyovers by drones, the Left gets a complete pass.

Now we’re going to cave on higher taxation and amnesty.

Our side is basically ‘all in’ with the Democrats.

[bestintxas]

“Curiously, there are only 12 million of us left in the country who actually make something. We’ll be fine. We’ll re-form as necessary to be in small enough groups to avoid the Obamakrap.”

Ever seen leeches sucking on a host? They pile on for the free food they have access to. They keep on coming and can weigh down the host body. Bloody mess that eventually can cause real harm to the host.

You are envisioning being a host to leeches.

Don’t think what you are advocating(let them be) will work.
They need to be burned off your body and you move that body to some other place.

Once a leech, always a leech. It’s a learned trait.

[sickoflibs]

RE :”Of course that ignores the possibility that they know exactly what they are doing.
.......Our side is basically ‘all in’ with the Democrats.”

I see little evidence that Republicans know what they are doing.

In fact its not obvious to me that Republicans are even ‘all in’ with each other. Instead they act like a disorganized mess and they usually give in to Dems when public opinion scares the crap them after they screw up. And they are really good at that too.
Exhibit A : They opposed O lots in 2009 and 2010 when it was easy and safe for them, even the NE RINOs joined in most of the time then.

Those in power esp in leadership want continued spending and power, but the type of spending is sometimes different.

[stephenjohnbanker]

” Instead they act like a disorganized mess and they usually give in to Dems when public opinion scares the crap them after they screw up.”

Every time.

[Graewoulf]

Obamanation Communism File.

[DoughtyOne]

And can they please quit talking about revenue enhancers, and just call it what it is, increased taxation.

They can call it an IUD, but it will still be a tax!

Who the heck are they kidding?

[Jack Black]

Medicaid and Social Security - for everyone under, say 55, Medicaid begins at 68; Social Security begins at 68 (early SS at 65 with reduced benefits).

Why everyone under 55? Why not everyone? Including current retirees under 65 - make em go back to work. Why is it fair to change the program on some people but not others?

"Means Test Social Security"? Really?? OK, so the government was lying this whole time about what the program was. Punish success. Doesn't sound very conservative.

How about this: pay back 100% of social security contributions, with compound interest, less payouts to all plan participants and close it.

Retired people who can't pay their bills can go on Federal "Eldercare". Ditto for disability, but it should be re-written to remove most psychological illness and other fraud magnets.

What's "Easy" about Free Health Care? How is "Free Health Care" conservative? You sure seem willing to give away other peoples money, Dan. Are you sure you are "on the right". Looks like you are leaning left to me.

[stephenjohnbanker]

” revenue enhancers”

Shades of Bush 1

Makes me sick!

[DoughtyOne]

Yes, me too.

[annieokie]

Oh OK! now I get it. rofl

[JediJones]

[JediJones]

The outmaneuvering was in voting for a TEMPORARY tax cut back under Bush in the first place. Voting for a TEMPORARY tax cut IS a vote to raise taxes. It says I will lower taxes on date A and raise taxes on date B. Republicans would not be in this position if they had never voted to raise taxes in the first place.

Tax policy is not something that should be scheduled on a temporary basis at all. That’s not good for individuals or businesses. Not to mention it undermines the whole argument for having tax cuts in the first place. If it’s good for everyone to lower taxes, why in the heck would it ever be good to schedule them to go back up again later? I hope if anything comes of this it’s that we never get a “temporary” tax cut again.

[Varsity Flight]

“They wont LET you get ahead ...”

Well said. And the real freeloaders, are the ones pushing for the “deal.” The bailout babies of 2008. Would the “banks” actually want a loan shackle free population.

And this legislation has already been written up. Along with their failed Massachusetts “Replace”-Care candidate.

Their Massachusetts candidate of tax and theft of paid social security, is ironically being held up by the election result.

[cdpap]

After going over the cliff you tell the dems that you would be happy to lower taxes on the middle class but the dems own paygo rules state they need to be offset with spending cuts of same amount.

[steve86]

Medicaid and Social Security - for everyone under, say 55, Medicaid begins at 68;

No one at that age is on Medicaid.

Disability for SS needs to be recertified every 5 years.

Where are you going to find the hundreds of millions to do that, including re-doing all the challenges? Useless anyway in many cases. Permanent disability is defined that way for a reason -- like my relative who can't grow a new heart chamber now or 20 years from now.

[sickoflibs]

RE :”After going over the cliff you tell the dems that you would be happy to lower taxes on the middle class but the dems own paygo rules state they need to be offset with spending cuts of same amount.”

Dems are way ahead of you.
They will just say its payed for with those tax increases on the rich, and Republicans will still end up in the same corner faced with a vote on those tax cuts, looking like they ‘are against the middle class to protect the rich’ (just as they used against Romney) if they try what many here say they should.
That is why they will cave, they are playing a losing game,.

I laid out an idea here that is devious enough to turn Dems trap back on them:
on thread 'Racing to Beat the Clock on the Dividend Cliff' (how to beat Dems at their own game at comment #3)

[sickoflibs]

RE :”And can they please quit talking about revenue enhancers, and just call it what it is, increased taxation.”

Rs have been calling it ‘more revenues‘ in the plural since last year. ‘ I am for more revenues but against tax increases’ they been saying since last year's deal failed.

As you couldn't have missed, Republicans and their flipping positions of the automatic (delayed really) spending cuts urks me to no end.
They are claiming that they included cuts to their own Golden Calf Pork (defense) to that bill in an attempt to create a bargaining chip to use to to force Dems to go along with ‘entitlement reform’. That means they are either idiots or dishonest or more likely both.
Hell, I bet at least half of freepers wouldn't mind those Defense spending cuts going through, and Rs demands to Dems (newsflash: that gun is empty) is now that they help repeal those same cuts that they (Rs) voted for.
That is like holding up a bank with the gun pointed at your own head.

Love Rand Paul today. He was on Cavuto and said "Whats up with some of these Rs on those sequester spending cuts? I thought (they said) that government spending is bad"

[DoughtyOne]

And can they please quit talking about revenue enhancers, and just call it what it is, increased taxation.

Rs have been calling it ‘more revenues‘ in the plural since last year. ‘I am for more revenues but against tax increases’ they been saying since last year's deal failed.  Along these lines, I'm sick and tired of them talking down tax increases for the wealthy, and in the same breath saying they can get better results by eliminating various deductions.  Earth to Republicans in Congress, it's the same thing you idiots.  Now the mortgage interest tax deduction is on the table.  Good grief!  Many folks couldn't afford their house payments without this deduction.  After the first of the year, millions of families will begin to lose the fruits of their loved ones savings and assetts too.

As you couldn't have missed, Republicans and their flipping positions of the automatic (delayed really) spending cuts urks me to no end.  It should. That means they are either idiots or dishonest or more likely both.  Both is looking like a safe bet.  Romney and Ryan were hawking trillions of cuts, but they were over a period of time, and didn't really address the deficit in the way most folks thought they were.

They are claiming that they included cuts to their own Golden Calf Pork (defense) to that bill in an attempt to create a bargaining chip to use to to force Dems to go along with ‘entitlement reform'.  Whatever the reason, I'm not on board.  This isn't the way to cut defense spending.  You and I have discussed this matter before, at least I believe we did.   My take is that our armed services are much more lean that they should be.  We've got a one theater level of preparedness.  We have a Navy that is about 45% of what it was under Reagan.  Less than Reagan is understandable, but 45%?  Our aircraft are aging, and the replacements are not coming forward in a timely manner.  We slashed our most advanced aircraft order by about 75%.

During this same period our welfare skyrocketed to nearly $1 trillion dollars per year.  We're paying out unemployment benefits for up to two years now.  We've blown out food stamps or whatevery the name is these days, by about 50% in four years.  We're freaking giving away the store, burning off cash here by the football stadium full.

At least our defense spending buys us something.  And yet, it's the first thing they talk about cutting every time.  I haven't heard one mention of cutting welfare, unemployment benies, or food stamps.

Hell, I bet at least half of freepers wouldn't mind those Defense spending cuts going through, and Rs demands to Dems (newsflash: that gun is empty) is now that they help repeal those same cuts that they (Rs) voted for.
That is like holding up a bank with the gun pointed at your own head.  I agree with your final take.  I also agree that some FReepers would support more Defense cuts.

Russia is rearming.  China is arming.  India is arming.  Iran is arming.  A number of little bergs that never thought of arming, are now drawing up plans to arm.  Europe has been discussing a European Union level defense effort similar to our own.  The U. S. is disarming.  It is in decline.  The world sees it.  I tried to explain to folks what our withdrawel from the world stage would usher in, in short order.  We are seeing it.

Ignoring certain aspect of this is very short-sighted.  I don't believe Russia would have been rearming right now if the U. S. hadn't blinked.  China is basically doing the same thing.  By cutting back on defense to the degree we already have, we have enticed our biggest enemies into the honey-trap.

I've said it a number of times before, but those who say they lament the relatively small loss of lives in Afghanistan and advocate for our withdrawel from the global stage, are ensuring that massive losses of life will occur instead.  And this time it will take place on U. S. soil.  Now that's productive long term strategic planning.  /s

Love Rand Paul today. He was on Cavuto and said "Whats up with some of these Rs on those sequester spenskding cuts? I thought (they said) that government spending is bad" \\

Rand is good on some subjects.  He's a blithering idiot on others.  Looks like the isolationists are going to win this one.  To the extent they do, WWIII will come sooner rather than later.

Some folks seem to think that if the United States would only withdraw from the world stage, there would be "peace in our time".  It's exactly the opposite.

We've learned nothing from the past.

Including the military in these sequester settlements, was a massive blunder.  What else is new.

[sickoflibs]

Whatever the reason, I’m not on board. This isn’t the way to cut defense spending. You and I have discussed this matter before, at least I believe we did. My take is that our armed services are much more lean that they should be. We’ve got a one theater level of preparedness.
.....
Including the military in these sequester settlements, was a massive blunder. What else is new?”

They may not be prepared but they still are wasting 10s or more likely 100s of billions of dollars.
Look, I live in rich Maryland and I know that how the Feds are wasting our big money on useless crap and calling it defense and it is a crime. How can someone be for cutting food stamps (you know food ?) when such arrogant squander of our future children’s money is being wasted? Should Republicans motto really be "Let them eat cake" ??

You know why super liberal Maryland is the richest state in the country?? Federal spending, and NO its not food stamps and welfare as the hypocrite party claims. We got all the Defense contractors here making big $$$$.

As far as the automatic spending cuts being ‘not the best way to do it’ : That is the best Republicans would do and it’s their pork. They had MORE THAN PLENTY of time to come up with sensible Defense cuts of the waste but they wont. It is their pork. So then came up with this instead thinking it get us to rebel against what they passed.

It is stuff like this that makes the R party look like total opportunistic 'let them eat cake' hypocrites, to claim gubt spending kills jobs, while defending such arrogant waste. You can call Obama Marxist as many times are you want but until the R party looks serious they have no future.

[sickoflibs]

Correction,

How can someone be for cutting food stamps (you know food ?) WHILE SUPPORTING such AN arrogant squander of our future children’s money being wasted? Should Republicans motto really be “Let them eat cake” ??”

that is a key correction.