Utah Voter Turnout One Of Lowest In Country [Utah in bottom 10 of eligible voters staying home]

MidUtahRadio.com ^ | Nov. 27, 2012 | Duke Dance

[Colofornian]

The number of Utah citizens going to the polls continues to drop. The “Salt Lake Tribune” reports that while election officials point to 80 percent voter turnout across the state, that number only reflects registered voters, and doesn’t include more than half-a-million Utahns who are eligible to vote but not registered. Overall, the number of people in the state who cast ballots in the presidential election was 57 percent. That’s basically the same number as the 2008 election, when Utah placed 9th lowest in the country in voter turnout.

[nutmeg]

Mia Love ran against incumbent Matheson, but she lost mainly because of a third-party challenger - some Libertarian that siphoned off some votes for her.

I'm certain that if the effin' third party guy wasn't in the race, Mia would have won. Shame... Mia would've become an instant GOP star. Hope she runs again...

[Colofornian]

But don't take my word for it, moonbat, cause here's the details. Looks to me like Mitt outdid McCrisis handily, with Utah's total vote up about 6% in an otherwise national contraction election. If anything, Mitt adding on 20% to McCrisis shows Mormon motivation prima facie.

Per your stats 75,857 Utahns who voted for Obama converted to Romney this go-round (something the article didn't even address...it focused only on overall turnout...not the ratio of the vote) ... plus when you crunch those #s, your source says another 67,843 additional voters came on board in the GoP column compared to 2008 vote totals.

But in 2008, Utah had less than 1.88 million voting-age adults (1 million, 877,000 per this Census source: http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0398.pdf); the source I cited on another post earlier in the thread says Utah now has 1.94 million voting-age...being a younger state, it grew by about 63,000.

Given that per your source, 72.62% of Utahns voted for Romney, 72.62% of the additional 63,000 new Utah voters = 45,751. IOW, of the 67,843 additional Romney voters (vs. McCain), 45,751 of them can simply be explained by new Utah adult-age voters coming of age...simple growth of the state itself. It says NOTHING of Romney's voter-capturing prowess. (McCain did NOT have access to those 63,000 in 2008...as they were popping pimples then!)

So TURNOUT wise -- not RATIO wise...out of 1.94 million, how many additional voters (voters who were already adults in 2008 + didn't vote in 2008) does your stats say "flocked" to Romney?

Answer: 22,092...

19,400 is 1% of the voting age Utah populace; so the answer is really a whopping 1%...even using your stat source!!!!

Thanks for making the point of the article!!!

What else does your stat source prove?

Your stats say that 1 million 20 thousand Utah voters turned out in 2012. How does that even compare to 2004 in Utah, when Utah had over 260,000 less voting-age adults in that state (1.679 million per this source: Resident Population of Voting Age and Percent Casting Votes: States 2000 to 2010)?

Answer: Less Utahns voted in 2012 than when Utah was almost 16% smaller!!!! Romney couldn't even draw the number of voters who turned out in the 2004 Utah elections!!!!!!!

Per this source: Voting and Registration in the Election of November 2008 (see page 8) -- 1 million 22 thousand Utahns turned out for the 2004 election. So about 2,000 less Utahns turned out in 2012 -- vs. 2004 -- despite almost 16% growth of voting-age adults!!!

Amazing!

And, if you look at pages 8 and 11 of this last link it's not as if Utah 2008 voting totals were "brag-able"...This govt source says 'twas even worse than what the Trib reported it as...saying only 53.1% (not even the 57% figure the Trib used) of voting-age adults voted in the 2008 Utah election...page 11 says that was second from the bottom among all states!

More egg on your face...next time take a look at the entire package of voter stats 2004-2012 vs. your rambling ad hominem attacks...

[Elsie]

Conservatives gave it to Obama instead.

Sorry; but the gop-e 'gave it' to Conservatives: again!

[Elsie]

Shame... Mia would've become an instant GOP star. Hope she runs again...

A hundred years ago she would NEVER have gotten ANYWHERE!

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"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.

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Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.

2 Nephi 5: 21 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

Alma 3: 6 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'

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August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."

"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."

"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)

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1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,

"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."

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We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.

According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.

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Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:

"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.

The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."

(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).

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When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:

"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."

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When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."

(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)

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Yeah; Native Americans are althroughout the Book of MORMON; too.

 

“I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.

At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents—on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.... These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.

One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.

 

(Improvement Era, December 1960, pp.922-23). (p. 209)

 

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[Colofornian]

If anything, Mitt adding on 20% to McCrisis shows Mormon motivation prima facie.

ALL: So, let's "recap" my last post:

Whatever Romney added vs. McCain in Utah, 1/3rd of that was simply attributable to the 45,000 + new Romney 18-21 yo voters...as Utah grew 63,000...and the 45,000 figure I used in the last post is 72.62% -- the ratio Romney got from the rest of Utah voters in 2012.

Over half of that 144,570 new GoP total (compared to McCain's 2008 #s) was due to Obama converts to Romney...but these were NOT new voters...which is what this article was about -- overall voter TURNOUT...So already the above two components explains almost 90% of the above figure that StAnDeliver touts.

Apparehtly Romney DID draw less than 23,000 new adult voters (voters who were already adults in 2008)...but that's only 1% of the entire voting-age populace in Utah!

And when you THEN compare all this to 2008 at a national state-by-state level, where Utah ALREADY was 2nd from the bottom in voter turnout among voting-age adults (53.1% per the US Census Dept)...Utah only beat out Hawaii as the most apathetic state in 2008!!!...It's all REALLY appalling!!!

Not exactly "bragging" #s...to say that Romney "inspired" Utah adults to increase their already near totem-poll bottom #s by only 1%!

I want to thank StAnDeliver for her post...'cause it caused me to sift out the REAL #s...

And if I am all those things she labels me, and yet she couldn't figure out the above, what does that then say about her????

[Colofornian]

Addendum to the 22,092 new 22 & up voters that Romney attracted in Utah...among people who did not vote in the 2008 election...

Remember that Utah is only 60% Lds; so even if we are generous and say that 75% of these 22,092 are Lds, that means that the "Mormon motivation" in Utah attracted less than 17,000 newby Lds 22 & up voters!

That is about .85% of the entire voting-age populace of Utah!!!!!

So here we have a state in which anywhere from...
...42% [Trib said 43%...but I can give Romney the benefit of the doubt and even increase this by a tick]...
...to 47% [2008 Utah voter turnout]...
...which doesn't bother to either register or, if registered, to vote...
...--And translates into at almost half a million Mormons in that state--
...And Mitt can only draw less than 17,000 22 & up Mormon newby voters??? Which is a little above 3% of Utah's non-voting Mormons!!!????

Where is the MSM on this story???

All the finger-pointing by Mormons -- and many FREEPER non-Mormons -- that went on for YEARS aimed at Christians about NOT voting for a Mormon!!!

And here we have almost half-a-million unregistered or registered-but didn't vote adult UTAH Mormons who opted out of these elections!!!!

[StAnDeliver]

"Per your stats 75,857 Utahns who voted for Obama converted to Romney this go-round"

The table says nothing of the kind. Yours is a a patently absurd conjecture without any cite to exit polling.

"Given that per your source, 72.62% of Utahns voted for Romney, 72.62% of the additional 63,000 new Utah voters = 45,751. IOW, of the 67,843 additional Romney voters (vs. McCain), 45,751 of them can simply be explained by new Utah adult-age voters coming of age...simple growth of the state itself. It says NOTHING of Romney's voter-capturing prowess. (McCain did NOT have access to those 63,000 in 2008...as they were popping pimples then!)"

Your paralogism doesn't stand up to scrutiny. One, Utah voter turnout percentage by both registered voter and by voting age is on a steady, precipitous long-term decline in Utah.

This is confirmed by Adam Brown's study of Michael McDonald's Voting Elegible Population (VEP) data points as well.

Year	Utah’s VEP	Votes cast for president	Turnout as % of VEP
2012	1,835,666	1,019,810	55.5%
2008	1,746,298	952,370	54.5%
2004	1,574,463	927,844	58.9%
2000	1,431,668	770,754	53.8%
1996	1,326,919	665,629	50.2%
1992	1,162,363	743,999	64.0%
1988	1,043,170	647,008	62.0%
1984	998,820	629,656	63.0%
1980	915,484	604,222	66.0%

In fact, Brown refutes your assertions directly.

"Reporting turnout as a percentage of registered voters can also produce misleading trends. In 2010, Utah’s election officials claimed that turnout was the best for a midterm election in Utah in 16 years. With a little research, however, one learns the reason for this “improvement”: Fewer Utahns were registered to vote in 2010 than in previous years, inflating the turnout percentage when measured as a percentage of registered voters. When measured correctly (as a percentage of VEP), Utah’s turnout in 2010 was actually worse than every midterm election since 1994 except (barely) 2006."

There go your random numbers picked out of thin air.

Two, and more importantly, "pimple poppers" went nationwide for Obama over 60%. No evidence presented to suggest it was any less in Utah (and Mia Love's loss insinuates as much).

Therefore, Romney's huge leap forward in vote total over McCrisis could not possibly have come from 'pimple poppers'; far more likely it came from motivated Mormons.

Face it, you're one of those people who likes to say ridiculous sh!t in hopes that someone will school you and you learn what the actual answer is.

I've seen your kind all my life and I find it a detestable display of bad manners. But you have to live with yourself, Freetard, not me.

[nutmeg]

Geesh... WHY did you have to post that HUGE post to me? I didn't need all that crap staring me in the face. A simple link would have sufficed.

Now it's taking me forever to get through my pings...

Don't post to me again.

[Colofornian]

Me: "Per your stats 75,857 Utahns who voted for Obama converted to Romney this go-round"

You: The table says nothing of the kind. Yours is a a patently absurd conjecture without any cite to exit polling.

Sure it does. Ya don't need to cite exit polling when the voting stats that YOU provided are right there...go back to the table you sourced...

In 2008, how many voted for Obama? Answer: 327,670
In 2012, how many voted for Obama? Answer: 251,813

It is simple subtraction...You subtract those #s and 75,857 Utahns withdrew their Obama support ('12 vs. '08)

Since Romney had about 144,000+ more votes than McCain in 2012, it's obvious just about all those voters went to Romney...they didn't simply evaporate into thin air!

Why do you complicate such a simple math issue?

[Colofornian]

...more importantly, "pimple poppers" went nationwide for Obama over 60%. No evidence presented to suggest it was any less in Utah (and Mia Love's loss insinuates as much).

#1...I oversimplified those 63,000 newby voters...[that reflected Utah's growth of Voting-Age population].

Not all of them are 18-21 yo...some, for example, could be older voters who moved there from another state. How many? Who knows...safe to say not a lot...

#2 In conservative Utah, the Pimple Poppers surely at least split 50-50...So even then about 30,000 would still be an adjustable #...And if another 500 were older than 21...then that leaves you gaining at best only 15,000 more...not even another 1%...

[StAnDeliver]

"It is simple subtraction...You subtract those #s and 75,857 Utahns withdrew their Obama support ('12 vs. '08) Since Romney had about 144,000+ more votes than McCain in 2012, it's obvious just about all those voters went to Romney...they didn't simply evaporate into thin air! Why do you complicate such a simple math issue?"

Are you really that 'simple'-minded? Seriously?

Without any data from exit polling, there is literally no way to draw any corollary as to '08 populations. None. Zero.

Any number of '08 Obama voters did not vote in '12; any number of '08 McCain voters did not vote in '12; and any number of voters who 'simply' did not vote in '08 voted for Romney in '12.

But hey, your derangement is some seriously easy Schadenfreude, so keep on Freetarding...

[Colofornian]

...more importantly, "pimple poppers" went nationwide for Obama over 60%. No evidence presented to suggest it was any less in Utah (and Mia Love's loss insinuates as much).

Btw...there's yet one more reason to leave the # at 45,000 Romney voters (or so) -- among the new voting-age population of 63,000 in Utah: The Lds church has -- right now -- 55,000 missionaries out there...

They each do 2-year stints...most starting at age 19...some age 20, 21 or even older.

That means they flip 27,500 (or so) every single year. That's how many are "returning home."

So where is "home" for most of them?

Well, 34% of all American Mormons live in Utah. So, we can safely conclude that over 9,000 returned home to Utah in 2012. And another 9,000 -- most of whom probably didn't vote in 2008 -- also returned home in 2011...And we could surmise that another 7,000+ newby missionary returnees returned to Utah in 2010...and thousands more newbies returned in 2009...

All total...you probably have conservatively over 30,000 returned Lds missionaries to Utah alone from 2009-2012...most of whom...if they registered... did so for the very first time...

Obviously, at least a small portion of these headed out of state to attend a university...but even then, some retain their home voting status.

So, if 55% of them registered, that's over 15,000 newbies...many of whom are 22 & up...[meaning thousands of these don't fit the "pimple popping" category]

And I say "conservatively" because actually the pressure for high school grads and college students to serve as missionaries is extremely higher in utah than other states. So, if anything, that 30,000 figure needs to be bumped up.

And of ALL Mormons, these would be your very most conservative Mormons...perhaps even 80%+ conservative in their socio-political worldviews. So, with over 15,000 of these returned missionaries registering to vote, most for the first time, we can safely conclude that Romney easily could have gotten almost 12,000 votes just from missionary returnees who came home to Utah 2009-2012. We already know that males nationwide -- non-Mormon & Mormon -- supported Romney more than Obama...

These returned missionaries would just about offset any "50-50" split among 18-21 yo Utah Mormon voters that you pointed out...with btw, your anecdotal extrapolations that assumed Utah 18-21 yo would vote the same as urban & suburban college students.

[Colofornian]

In fact, Brown refutes your assertions directly. "...When measured correctly (as a percentage of VEP), Utah’s turnout in 2010 was actually worse than every midterm election since 1994 except (barely) 2006."

Well, thanks for reinforcing the very point of this article!!!

The article doesn't focus on registered voters...but on the Voting eligible population in utah (now about 1.94 million).

Brown doesn't refute anything I've been saying; in fact, he reinforces it!

The very point of the article was saying that 2008-2012, apathy among Utah voters has taken over.

Now the Trib said that the 2008 turnout % among all eligible voters was 57%; the census division link I cited only 53.1%...2nd worst among all states; now you come along & cite Brown to reinforce the 2008 figures with a 54.5% figure...

No matter how you slice, it 47%...43%...or as Brown said, 45.5%...of 2008 Utah voters staying home...pathetic.

Then you cite Brown's table as saying the 2012 uptick among Utah voters was only 1% -- to 55.5%...meaning 44.5% didn't register...or registered and didn't vote.

What's more...in all the #s crunching in my earlier post, what did I conclude? That yup, romney attracted 1% more Mormon voters than McCain did in 2008.

And here, you cite a Brown table that seems to yet confirm that 1% figure!!!

When you're talking about 1% in a state that's as bulky Mormon-wise as Utah, really doesn't matter if we know or don't know the exact % of Mormon vs. non-Mormon actual voters.

The boottom line is that you have managed to reinforce that 1% figure...

By your own sourcing, your "Mormon motivation" was placed on a weak limb that's cracked all the way thru!

[Elsie]

Don't post to me again.

Why not?

You expect to have YOUR say and then deny me MINE?

Good luck getting THAT enforced!

[nutmeg]

You expect to have YOUR say and then deny me MINE?

Good luck getting THAT enforced!

WHAT are you talking about? I made a very short comment about Mia Love in #41 on this thread to Graybeard58 and cicero2k... NOT to you. I don't even know who you are.

Out of the blue, you post to me (in #44) a bunch of crazy anti-Mormon SPAM - about 2ft in length - which is screwing up all my other pings, which I'm now having difficulty finding.

I do not participate in religious discussions on FR (learned that lesson long ago), and I'm not a Mormon, for your information.

Stop spamming me with a bunch of garbage that had nothing to do with my comment - directed to other FReepers - in #41.

[Elsie]

Stop spamming me with a bunch of garbage that had nothing to do with my comment

You made a comment about Mia Love - a BLACK woman who has chosen to align herself with the MORMON heresy.

I used your 'nothing to do with' remark to show some of the HISTORY of the MORMON movement.

Pointing out False Teachings is a command given to Christians.

If this dismays you; then perhaps you should follow your own advice and "...do not participate in religious discussions on FR"...

[Elsie]

I made a very short comment about Mia Love in #41 on this thread to Graybeard58 and cicero2k... NOT to you. I don't even know who you are.

And now you are learning more about me. Isn't that a good thing?

Perhaps using the Private Reply tab instead of the Post Reply tab would keep evesdroppers like myself from butting in to a very public discussion.

[beandog]

If you don’t know who it is, then you are lucky. Believe me, you’d be better off just ignoring its posts. Nasty is the best word to describe it.

[Elsie]

Nasty is the best word to describe it.

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THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 132

51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to ^aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.

52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, ^areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been ^afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.

54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and ^acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be ^bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ^ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of ^beternal lives in the eternal worlds.

56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid ^aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to ^brejoice.

 

 

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Whatever HAPPENED to Emma???

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Eliza was a devout Mormon.

 

At age 38, she became Joseph Smith's 14th plural wife (in addition to Smith's lawful wife, Emma).

 

In 1842, after learning Eliza was pregnant, Emma Smith beat Eliza with a broomstick and

knocked her down a flight of stairs, causing Eliza to miscarry Smith's baby.

Wow!!

 

I guess ol' Emma got VAPORIZED by GOD!!!

 

We know that multiply him thing sure didn't work out!          

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Joseph_Smith,_Jr.

[nutmeg]

You made a comment about Mia Love - a BLACK woman who has chosen to align herself with the MORMON heresy.

I made a harmless comment - not to YOU, by the way - in #41 bemoaning the fact that Mia Love - regardless of religion, cult or whatever - was our preferred conservative candidate in that race, and she lost.

Again - I made no comment about Mia Love's religion.

If this dismays you; then perhaps you should follow your own advice and "...do not participate in religious discussions on FR"...

I don't need your scolding tone, Elsie. Who the heck do you think you are?

Again, I did NOT participate in any religious discussion about Mia Love nor anyone else in my post #41. It was YOU who chose to spam me with that long, long post in #44 for whatever crazy reason.