Posted on 12/22/2012 6:19:52 AM PST by wintertime
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBSgchJe2Z0
At about 2:20 in the video, Mr. Round begins listing what is occurring in his government school. He states that only 4 or 5 of the children in his class were able to consistently endure this treatment. Please think about this.
Question: What would happen if parents treated children this way in the home?
Question: What would OSHA officials have to say if employers treated their adult employees this way?
Answer: It would be called what it is: Abuse!
Where are all the "good" teachers standing up and protesting this? Where are the mass resignations? Where are these so-called "good" teachers that nearly everyone claims to know?
My conclusion: These children have been abandoned and left to endure abuse. Unlike an adult, children have no means to change their situation.
My conclusion: A" good" government teacher is about as rare as the Hope Diamond. The rest are enablers and some are outright evil.
(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...
Methinks that you and the up-down kid paint with far too broad a brush...
There was a huge difference between the secular government education that my grandmother, father, and my cousins received as compared to the Catholic education that was enjoyed by my mother, me, and my siblings.
For example, in Catholic school we said a prayer every hour as we changed subjects. If a police or fire alarm was heard, the class instruction stopped and we prayed for the safety of all involved. The feast days of saints were observed and an especially important one was the feast day of the saint for whom our school was named. An entire half hour every day was dedicated to learning the Baltimore Catechism which we memorized. We received instruction for our First Holy Communion and Confirmation. Of course, there was the yearly May Day celebration in honor of the Blessed Mary. During Lent, every Friday, there were the Stations of the Cross. Ash Wednesday was an important day with a special Mass. Christmas was entirely Christ-centered. In the upper left hand corner of every paper we wrote were the initials J.M.J. to remind us of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph.
As we grew older the teaching of the Saints and church leaders were incorporated into our history and literature classes. We were reminded during science and math classes that these subjects reflected the glory of God's creation. We were taught to pray for God's guidance in seeking the best use of our talents ( for His glory, of course.) In high school, every spring there was an entire week set aside for a retreat filled with prayer, daily Mass, and speakers from the Arch Diocease.
Do you get the idea? This is the difference between a truly Christ-centered education ( specifically Catholic) and the puny amount of lukewarm and generic Protestantism nodded to on occasion in the government schools my cousins, father and grandmother attended.
My last two years of high school were in government school. Yes, there was the Lord's Prayer and short scripture in the morning but from then on it was a non-stop secular and godless worldview. Wow! What a difference!
What is the risk to children who attend government schools that force upon the students a lukewarm and generic Protestantism? Answer: They risk learning to be lukewarm and generic about their faith.
What does Christ do with the lukewarm? Answer: He spits them out of His mouth!
I hope those who caused it and continue to destroy my nation, Burn in Hell.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well...The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Personally, I believe that most government teachers and administrators do have good intentions. There is a term for these people: Useful Idiots.
I feel bad for this teacher. His school system sounds horrible. Nothing at all like our school system.
I thought our kids had it bad until I listened to his resignation. I keep forgetting how remarkable my county is when it comes to public schools.
Your county's government schools are godlessly secular. The children who attend these godless government schools **must** think and reason godlessly just to cooperate in the classroom.
It is impossible to have a religiously neutral education and government schools across this nation have **never** been religiously neutral. Your county's government schools are force-feeding a non-neutral religious worldview on their children and the taxpayers are under a terrible threat of loss of their homes and businesses and prison if they refuse to pay for this anointed government school sponsored religious worldview.
Your county's government schools are just as much of a single-payer, monopolistic, price-fixed cartel, compulsory, and socialist entitlement as any other county's schools. Children who attend risk learning to be comfortable with taking money from their neighbor for tuition-free schooling. Gee! If the voting mob can give them “free” school, why not use that power to get lots of “free” stuff.
Government schools trash every First Amendment Right. They, like all schools, must to maintain order and safety. However...When government does this to children they risk learning to be comfortable with government compulsion and the trashing by government of their First Amendment and God-given human rights.
And...That's just for starters and your county's government indoctrination camps.
That's a real conversation stopper -- even if our public schools have prayers and our school board is 100% composed of Deacons...
Fin.
In its very best years, government schooling was never more than generically and lukewarmly Protestant. Forcing feeding children a lukewarm pap is not what the scriptures recommend. Today, government schooling is godless in its worldview.
Having no idea whether any of verga's claims about your posting history were true, I was confused at the animus displayed and how uncivil it seemed to be.
Now at least I understand.
Rather than try to discuss my children's religion, and since your claim encompasses the entire history of public schools in our country, I can answer your post with my own experience.
I should note that the concept of "free" schooling is almost as old as our country. Jefferson pushed it, and throughout our history our communities have included public education, from the one-room "schoolhouse" where you were as likely to hear a sermon as a math lesson, to the modern edifices where religion is more of an underground thing.
I made it through 12 years of public education without ever having to sacrifice or compromise my religious principles or liberty. We had a prayer club which met regularly. Our English class took a field trip to a Presbyterian church service (we also had a wiccan speak in our class). We sung christian songs in our christmas performance.
Yes, I had to provide the "correct" answers to questions about evolution. On the other hand, I was free to answer the way I wanted, so long as I also let the teacher know I knew what the "official" answer was. I even wrote papers about creation, about salvation, and about other religious topics.
I got to mock buddism in a poem about Sidhartha. I got to witness to teachers, to pass out leaflets.
We had Young Life. We had Youth for Christ.
I belonged to a church singing group that did folk-rock operas like "It's Getting Late for the Great Planet Earth". We were allowed to perform IN the schools.
Yes, it is clearly different now then when I was in school. But you insisted that it was the same when I was in school as today. You insisted I had no idea what I was talking about.
Anyway, if you bothered to watch the video that you posted for this article, you'd know it had nothing to do with religion. I commented on the things brought up by the video.
In my county's schools, teachers are encouraged to do things. The schools do multiple field trips -- my children have been to Washington DC, to the Holocaust Museum, a German Restaurant, the Space Museum, and the Federal Reserve in Philadelphia. Other classes went to a theme park to learn physics. Elementary schools did the Baltimore Aqaurium, and various art museums were involved. That contrasts with the video's complaint that no field trips were allowed.
In our county, they have specialty schools, and kids can choose what they want to focus on, and go to those schools -- art, language, math.. my kids did biotechnology, and my daughter got to do a field trip to an FBI office to learn about serial killers.
They encourage teachers to do special things; we fight against teaching to the test, our kids don't eat in class, they get reasonable recess, and are allowed to have fun in class.
So rant about the religious stuff, but realize that it is completely unrelated to the subject of the thread you posted. I guess you can hijack your own thread all you want, but don't attack me personally for a reasoned opinion relative to the actual thread content, simply because you have an agenda about religion in the public schools.
bfl
“Chief Academic Officer”.
Straight out of the communist handbook.
We are so socialist. My nation is doomed.
Government schools are not religiously, politically, or culturally neutral because no education can be. When government owns and runs schools, those schools will establish a non-neutral political, cultural, and religious worldview, and like it or not, the citizen is under considerable pressure to pay for it.
Fundamentally, every government K-12 school ( this includes your county) in this nation is, and always has been, a First Amendment and freedom of conscience abomination.
Modern compulsory government schooling since it beginnings in the mid-1800s has always been a progressive idea. Progressives have always controlled teacher training and curriculum development. Progressives have always been pushing the envelop of social mores and ethics.
And...It seems the government school defender trolls have been alerted.
True Christ-centered schools are not a monopoly of Catholicism -- or of "protestantism", for that matter.
And, away from the liberal hellhole cities, there are Christ-centered communities that manage to keep their public schools Christ-centered, as well. That was my original point I intended to post -- until you polarized things...
May His blessings be upon you and yours this CHRISTmas! :-)
Even in the best communities the religious worldview must be generically lukewarm. A school with a serious non-lukewarm commitment to its faith would resemble something similar to my education as a child that I described in a previous post.
And....What of the children whose families are not Christian? Why should the voting mob force a Christian worldview, that some families might find repugnant, onto the children of the unbelieving and use tax laws to support this? I don't recall anywhere in the scriptures that Christ suggested using the threat of government action to round up children of unbelievers so they could be forced into association with Christians and forced to pay for this abomination.
My conclusion: Government schooling is a First Amendment and freedom of conscience abomination.
Would the Catholic Church school system meet the criteria for being “imbued with a specific denomination’s religious worldview”? If so, is that where you would send your children, or were you opposed to a specific denomination’s worldview”?
I don’t believe there is a problem with an education that is beyond a specific denomination.
The only way to avoid any non-neutrality in the content of what children are taught is to have the children taught by robots. You probably support parents doing the teaching, but that is only acceptable if we assume that the parents have the perfect knowledge of true religion. Otherwise, you have muslim parents teaching their faith to children, which hardly seems superior to the agnostic teachings of a typical public school.
It is the religiously oriented education that is going "beyond" and the secular and godless education that is constricted and narrow.
The only way to avoid any non-neutrality in the content of what children are taught is to have the children taught by robots.
Exactly! It is impossible to have a politically, culturally, and religiously neutral education. The content of an education can NOT be neutral in content or consequences. It is for this reason that government should get out of the K-12 education business because by engaging in education government will establish the political, cultural, and religious worldview of the most political active and trash the freedom of conscience of the less powerful.
Since we now have plenty of experience with vouchers, tax credits, and privately owned charters there is no reason to delay beginning the process of complete privatization. ( Except to preserve the pay checks and pensions of the government school defenders who frequent these threads.)
ou probably support parents doing the teaching, but that is only acceptable if we assume that the parents have the perfect knowledge of true religion.
Show me the studies that institutional schools teach anything. Please do this. No educator, in the many years I have been posting on the Internet, has ever provided me with these studies. It is just **assumed** that institutional schools are effective and NO measure of the considerable pre-school work, home support of the parents, hard work of the child in the home, and private tutoring has ever been done. It is interesting that when a school proudly proclaims itself to be a "good" school, it never cites how many students are attending private tutoring.
My conclusion: If you know of an academically successful child, whether institutionalized or home educated, that child has had significant parental "homeschooling" ( sometimes called, "afterschooling"). It is my observation that there is absolutely NO difference in the home study habits, the amount of time spent studying in the home, and parental input between academically successful institutionalized children and successful homeschoolers. I doubt any educator will have the curiosity to look into it.
but that is only acceptable if we assume that the parents have the perfect knowledge of true religion
If you can find a perfect human with perfect knowledge either inside or outside institutionalized schooling please let us know. Take a video. Post it on Youtube. Personally, I only expect to see this happen in the Second Coming.
Otherwise, you have muslim parents teaching their faith to children, which hardly seems superior to the agnostic teachings of a typical public school.
Gee! It used to be witches that government school defenders used to uphold those freedom of conscience abominations that are misnamed "public" schools. Now, the scary bogeyman is.... (Ooh!) ...MUSLIMS!)
Islam is an immigration problem. Atheistic government schools are NOT the answer to Islam. The Germans, French, and English experience confirms this. Restrict the ingress of Muslims and there will be far less of a Muslim problem.
As for religion and Islam, the best defense against it is to have citizens who are firm in their faith and can solidly defend their faith intellectually and spiritually. They will never get this in an atheistic government school. On the contrary, they will be taught to think godlessly. They must do this just to cooperate in the classroom and with the godless curriculum.
What possible relevance does my specific faith have to do with our nation's abominable system of freedom of conscience trashing government schools? Gee! The **only** people I know that make political discussions personal are the Marxist/liberals. Government teachers are the worst offenders. No conservative that I have ever met does this.
I have no idea what your specific faith is. You mentioned earlier that you had attended a Catholic School, and you posted that secular schools were fundamentally different from religious schools.
SO I was asking whether you thought that was a good or bad thing, and whether you would consider sending your kids to such a school.
If you don’t want to discuss this, that’s fine, but why post stuff if you don’t want to discuss it?
No citizen should be forced to support atheistic or God-centered government schools. No child should be forced to attend one. No family should have to pay jizya ( oops! tuition or extra homeschooling expense) to ransom their children from the government's atheistic or God-centered schools.
All education should be privatized. Parents should have complete freedom to choose the school ( godless or God-centered) that best upholds their religious worldview. Just as the free market does not guarantee complete perfection in choice of supermarkets ( for instance matzo ball soup Prosciutto is not likely to be found in my county) the patron is complete free to find the best ( even if not perfect) fit.
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