Posted on 01/05/2013 12:16:35 PM PST by middlegeorgian
There have been various stories about where she hit him, so I don’t know what the truth is. You’re quite right that placement is everything. But for home defense, I have a 12-gauge Mossberg. If an intruder comes into my house, I do not need to shoot five times to stop him.
Glaser safety slugs sound painful enough if you can find them.
Frangible round that is designed not to overpenetrate.
You are right. Shotguns trump handguns big time for home defense. I should have mentioned my personal favorite, although I rarely keep it loaded, is a 44 Magnum lever action rifle. Very maneuverable, 10 shots, firing a 240 grain bullet at well over 1800 fps. Light recoil...
But still, a shotgun trumps my carbine.
Some info on Glaser stuff:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=237381
http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-ammunition-ballistics/106990-glaser-safety-slugs.html
Yes, she probably had a .38 special. My granddad carried a Webley Scott Mk III in WW II, as an officer with the British-Indian Army in action against the Japanese, in Burma. It wasnt standard issue (Its really a pocket revolver), but he’d been gifted it by his own father, a civil servant in the British Indian government, and it held emotional value for him. It seems to have served him fine, though I shouldnt neglect to mention that he also had with him a .303 lee enfield rifle.
Read more carefully. I said: "Given the through-and-through wounding, she probably had roundball ammo in it. Would do better with JHP or safety slugs, if that's all the recoil she can stand."
Most people (there are always exceptions) can become accurate with more recoil than they think. Practice is the key.
But I always advise friends that if they (1) can't handle recoil; and (2) don't want to practice, get a .38 revolver.
I do think after this experience, this lady will probably decide to upgrade her sidearm, and at a bare minimum upgrade her ammo. .22s have killed more people than any other caliber, but when the chips are REALLY down and there are a couple of bad guys, or one high on PCP or bath salts, the odds are against .22 getting the job done.
Rifle is also a good thing. Shotgun is also a good thing, as General N.B. Forrest would testify.
On the local radio, the Loganville police spokesman was reporting (with ill-concealed glee) that Mr. Perp left a number of his teeth scattered on the floor.
I agree with you re the shotgun. When the panic was on here (two armed robbers escaped into the woods behind our house, and the police deployed on the opposite side of the woods . . . ) I put my kids into their beds and told them to stay there, and took up a position between our woodpile and the house wall with my grandfather's Light 12 Browning stuffed full of No. 2 buck. That shotgun is a punisher, but judging from my experience deer hunting, if I'd had to shoot I would never have felt the recoil. But since that time we sold the Browning and got a nice Rem 870 pump and an 1148 auto.
(Cobb's finest brought out the K-9s and nobbled the guys within ten minutes. Good on 'em.)
My dad was Officer of the Day one time in Italy during WWII. They had a GI confined who was accused of rape of an Italian civilian, and he made a run for it.
Dad yelled at him to halt, he didn't, so dad shot at him with his 1911A1. He aimed at his feet, but he pulled his shot and the bullet hit the guy right in the back of the head.
It did knock him off his feet and out cold - but when they turned him over they found that his skull was so hard that the bullet had traveled around the top of his skull under the skin, and had lodged right between his eyes like a plum in a pudding. Except for two small wounds and a nasty headache, he was in good shape to stand his trial.
Of course it was roundball ammo.
There's always an element of chance involved, and a hit with a .22 is better than a loud miss with a .44 (as Colonel Jeff Cooper said, may he rest in peace). And then you have the velocity versus bullet weight debate, which will never end. But all other things being equal, better to carry the most muzzle energy you can tolerate.
Police and "spray and pray" is another whole argument, but when I was 15 years old I was a lineboy for the Atlanta Police Helicopter Squad, back when they all carried the .38 revolvers loaded with "Reggie Pellets". I used to go shooting with them (with my mama's .32 S&W revolver). I could outshoot the whole lot of them except for the guy who was a gun collector and competitive shooter.
LOL,
Thanks for the reply. I really like the lamb part, my bros got a kick out of it.
Maybe you missed the parting line of my post. I was NOT taking issue with what you said. I just used your post as an avenue to blast the swinging... you know the types. Sorry if it seemed to be hitting you.
Training for recoil is fine for healthy, young people. Get over the hill where I live and bad things happen to bones.
I like your advice to friends about revolvers. I do the same, its sound advice.
But, osteo, rheumatoid, fibro arthritis are cripplers and even the mild recoil of a standard .38 can cause loss of control. First shot, hand caves, weapon drops on ground, bad,bad,bad. Seen it happen too often.
I hear what you are saying about the efficacy of .22s against a drugged out zombie. On the other hand, the chances of getting mugged around here by someone on bath salts or meth is kinda low.
The typical idiot around here is a lazy no good looking for fast food. An old lady blazing away with stingers looks mean and sounds meaner. All they see is that ripping long muzzle flash and the ear splitting noise of a .22 LR coming out a way too short barrel, and the average outcome is peed pants and a poo trail.
When its all said and done, .22 beats nothing at all.
Have a good one.
“But all other things being equal, better to carry the most muzzle energy you can tolerate.”
Agreed. I can get my wife to shoot 22s. She tried shooting a 38 special out of my Ruger Blackhawk...46 oz gun, and she stopped after 1 shot. Oh well. She doesn’t carry, but may start carrying a 22 as being just one step up from a can of mace. She enjoys shooting a 22, so that is a start.
My oldest daughter carries a J-frame using 38s. She shoots 38s well, but can’t hit a barn door with 357 ammo. It honestly doesn’t seem like that big of a difference to me.
Why don't you recommend that your bride get a nice short-barrel, lever-action rifle in one of the pistol calibers? It is almost as handy as a pistol and would be a lot easier to hang on to (and less stress on the wrists). It has zero recoil, up to ten rounds in the tubular magazine, and they're pretty cheap. You're a little limited in your bullet selection because they have to be flat nosed, but a FNHP would be very effective in .357 Mag or .45 Long Colt.
I had never shot a lever action until I took up Cowboy Action shooting. Got a little Winchester 92 (a Rossi copy, not the real thing) in .357 Magnum with the 20" barrel - it probably doesn't weigh 5 pounds unloaded. It shoots very easily, points quickly and naturally, and it has absolutely zero recoil. You can deal out quite a lot of lead very quickly. My husband has the larger and heavier Model 73 in .45 Long Colt, it doesn't have any recoil either. We are not gamers and we do not extensively download our cartridges.
My personal preference is against the magnum rounds for defense (I used to shoot a .41 S&W 8" barrel when I shot metallic silhouette). But for carry guns, I adhere to the old British Army dictum of "big and slow", the theory being that there is less over-penetration to the danger of objects/people behind the target, as well as better expansion. I've also found that the recoil on the larger standard calibers is less offensive - more of a push than a punch. One of my favorite sidearms to hate on is the Walther PPK/S in .380 -- nasty recoil. I think the pistol was really designed for the .32 auto.
So I tend to favor the .45 ACP and the .45 Long Colt as well as the old .44 Special for defense rounds. You could do a lot worse than a .44sp in a Bulldog type revolver. I believe several manufacturers have put that back in production.
You have no idea of the abuse I'm suffering.
God will get you.
Somehow, the old girl can't feature walking into the grocery store with a wild west lever action slung over her shoulder.
We here in western PA are wide open to lots of stuff, but there ARE limits.
She sports a little Beretta. It hides in the pocket or purse, weighs nothing at all, and she can put lots of holes all over someone's face with it, in no time at all.
It's a worrisome little thing that scares the s!!t out of people. It's almost funny.
Once upon a time, we did lots of "Run and Gun" shoots. Its a biker thing here in PA. It's like a poker run, but you select your cards by putting a hole in them at 15 yards, then on to the next location.
That girl put EVERYONE to shame. End of the day, using a Ruger MKII, she outshot everyone.
Times past, now, even the Ruger is too much to hold. And if you know the piece, you know how well it fits the hand.
Today, she has the Beretta, and my old Remington Nylon 66 (her downright favorite). I have scrounged up a 20 rnd clip for that 66. VERY POTENT. I've said too much, that little Ratz in WH basement is going wild right about now.
Ps. Nice horse.
I'm getting a hilarious mental picture of your lady strolling into the Pik'n'Pay with the '92 in a belt scabbard . . . good on her for outshooting the boys. We used to do poker runs on horseback, which was fun. Never did a "run and gun", although Gracie was broke to gunfire and I could shoot a rifle from her back.
When I'm not wearing a jacket I have to carry a .380, because the .45 sticks out of the top of my pocket . . . :-(
He was not just doing a "smash and grab", he was hunting.
LOL, I grew up on a hog farm. Just a pig farmer from the backwash of PA.
We had 3 mustangs. The most EVIL horses on the face of God's earth. Each month, had to ride the fence line. Pulled out the tack, 3 horses run off in 3 different directions.
Sooo, round up one, get the tack on, a$$wipe horse tries to scrape you off by rubbing up against the barn, running at the apple tree, and on and on. I HATE mustangs. When they figured out that it was really going to happen, the buggers tried to run the fence at full speed.
Oh Well
I have this visual picture of your .45 sticking out the top of your waist band. Like that young kid on Criminal Minds, who's .45 looks like its going to pull his pants down.
BTW, I've put down 250lb hogs with just a .22 short. It aint how big it is, it's where you put it.
(oh jeez, I'll stop now.)
Yea,the magic words in this sentence are: "TO ME!"
This is the problem. A firearm is as unique as the person shooting it.
If your daughter can HIT what she is shooting at with a .38, that's what counts.
Watch the movie, PULP FICTION again. The young kid jumped out of the back room firing a hand cannon. HE HIT NOTHING! And then he got wasted.
Hit the Target. That's ALL that counts.
Shot placement is very important - .22 is apparently favored for assassinations but of course (like the hog) the guest of honor isn't expecting it. :-)
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