Posted on 01/07/2013 3:33:09 PM PST by DManA
So this is based on remembering a scene from some movie? Have you never heard of Russian pogroms, for instance, or the Dreyfus affair? What about Germans themselves? They voted for Nazis.
“Do you really believe a Treblinka could have operated outside Paris, Antwerp, or Rome?”
Of course I do, though there were reasons Poland was better. Not your reason, but ones I’ve mentioned. If death camps couldn’t work there it’s certainly not because the populace wasn’t sufficiently racist.
I think it had a lot less to to with antisemitism in Poland than it had to do with hiding it from western Europe. After all, convincing the French to put them on a train for “relocation” is one thing convincing them to put them on a train headed for extermination is a whole different ball game.
Of all the combatants in that war, Russia would have had the least problem with the death camps.
As a nation and a people, Poland probably got the worst of that war from both the Nazis and the Russians. Both sides were conscripting their children as soldiers and slaves.Something like 17% of the civilian population of Poland was killed in WWII (5,620,000 to 5,820,000 people)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties
Hitler was his own god.
OTOH, Hitler’s regard for both Islam & the god worshipped by Muslims is also noteworthy.
I hate to say this but Happy Rain is right to some degree.
Anti-semitism in Poland and Ukraine was and still widespread.
As for Russian pogroms Tublecane talking about, check timeline and location of these events. Both Poland and Ukraine were parts of Russia at the time of pogroms. 90% of pogroms occured in either current Poland or Ukraine. 100% of other Russian pogroms occured in a places dominated by Ukrainian immigrants.
Despite many others their faults Russians are known for being race and gender blind. There might be some kitchen anti-semitism but it is a Ukrainian cultural input as well (all Russian anti-semitic N-words are of Ukrainian and Polish origin).
I don’t think Germans could run death camps in Russia, too. Being there was never comfortable for Germans to support military operations, let alone logistics for an enterprise like a death camp. Their lines on occupied territory were sabotaged on a daily basis by both leftover Soviet military and civilians.
Now, now. I have a perfectly rational explanation for Hitler `praying.’
In the book `Steel Boats, Iron Hearts’ U-boat 505 crew member Hans Goebeler explained that a U-boat hit a mine while leaving the harbor at Lorient harbor, France as the boat attempted to enter the Bay of Biscayne.
Many of the crewmen were paralyzed, their backs broken because their legs were driven up into their spines by the force of the explosion.
Consequently all the crewmen were not only ordered to wear life jackets while still in the harbor, but to also kneel until they were `safely’ in the bay.
As can be seen, it appears that Herr Hitler was afraid of being blown up.
So the next question, the statue figure of `Schickelgruber’: Is he wearing a life jacket?
Oh, I see, if it's in a Hollywood entertainment vehicle then it must be true. Thank you for repeating word for word Soviet Communist propaganda. It's a thankless job, but somebody has to do it.
Himmler flirted with the idea of converting to Islam. He considered Christianity a religion for cowards, and that Islam was a religion that soldiers could understand.
Ever hear of Drancy?
There are those who spread the Soviet propaganda out of conviction in the ideals of Communism or simply for remuneration. And then, there are others, Lenin’s “useful idiots”, who do it out of pure naivete and ignorance.
Do I even have to explain that the Soviet agents in the West presented the Politburo’s version of events and attitudes in Eastern Europe in order to affect the public opinion here in their favor and against those restless Poles and Ukrainians and the Baltics? I could go on and list all the lies of the Soviets that have become accepted in the U.S. as God’s facts, thanks to such sources as the New York Times and Communist historians at universities writing falsified history. Just look at the use of the word “Nazi” in our vernacular and avoidance of the word “Germans” when describing events of WWII, when a small segment of German population belonged to the National Socialist Party.
He who controls the language, controls the reality, my gay friends!
There are those who spread the Soviet propaganda out of conviction in the ideals of Communism or simply for remuneration. And then, there are others, Lenin’s “useful idiots”, who do it out of pure naivete and ignorance.
Do I even have to explain that the Soviet agents in the West presented the Politburo’s version of events and attitudes in Eastern Europe in order to affect the public opinion here in their favor and against those restless Poles and Ukrainians and the Baltics? I could go on and list all the lies of the Soviets that have become accepted in the U.S. as God’s facts, thanks to such sources as the New York Times and Communist historians at universities writing falsified history. Just look at the use of the word “Nazi” in our vernacular and avoidance of the word “Germans” when describing events of WWII, when a small segment of German population belonged to the National Socialist Party.
He who controls the language, controls the reality, my gay friends!
>>>>
Despite many other their faults Russians are known for being race and gender blind.
LOL
<<<<
Well, it might be an opinion, but it doesn’t change other facts I mentioned.
As we always been told due to his current location he’s most likely praying for ice water.
In any case, Auschwitz was in the General Gouvernment, territory under direct German rule that had virtually been annexed by Germany and only a short distance from what had been Germany proper.
The prewar Jewish population of Europe was overwhelmingly East of Germany. It was not hard for the Germany to kill off much of the Western European Jewish population without establishing death camps in the West.
Also, the Germans may have shared the common idea that the East was already savage and that mass murder wouldn't have aroused any protest there, and would have in the West. As it was, aside from Denmark, mass deportations and imprisonment didn't arouse protests in the Wests.
When peoples live separately but side by side for centuries, relations can be complicated and difficult. Your oversimplifications, though, don't help untangle things.
Not actually true. First of all, you have to specify when. Jews were living in Poland and the Ukraine (formerly part of one state with Poland) for centuries before they lived in Russia (which excluded them from residence in most of the country) so whatever happened to Jews wouldn't take place in Russia "outside the pale."
Most of the Khmelnytsky pogroms took place in what's now the Ukraine. Most of the 19th and early 20th century pogroms also took place outside of what is now Poland. That's not to say that there wasn't violence or repression in what's now or what was Poland. There was. Just as there was in Germany or France or Britain or Spain.
Despite many others their faults Russians are known for being race and gender blind.
Would that that were true. It certainly wasn't true of the Romanovs. And weren't we all trying to "Save Soviet Jewry" just a little while ago?
I don’t think Germans could run death camps in Russia, too. Being there was never comfortable for Germans to support military operations, let alone logistics for an enterprise like a death camp.
Clearly. That was too close to the front lines and too disorganized. Most of those partisans, though, were in Belarus and Ukraine. You might give the Ukrainians and Belorussians some credit for that along with all the blame you cast around. As it was though, thousands -- hundreds of thousands -- of Jews were killed by the German Army and its auxiliaries on Soviet territory without ever seeing a death camp.
Also my first emotional reaction... and second... and third.
Though Drancy was the largest camp in France it was a transit camp and many thousands more perished in the DEATH camps they were sent to FROM Drancy so comparing the camp or France itself to the murder mills and Poland doesn’t wash.
—”The Holocaust” by Leni Yahil 1987 pages 189-190
The 1930s fascist oppression of the Jews in Poland was a one step behind copy of Nazi Germany. The SS Realtors looking for friendly country to construct mass murder industrial complexes knew where to look because even though anti-Semitism was common in 1930s Europe, Poland was enabler perfect.
Poland is a great country and Poles are a great people—what they did to help Reagan bring down the Evil Empire can never be over appreciated. BUT as far as the Holocaust is concerned, they sucked big time...no spin just fact.
Given the Jews weren't allowed to live in most of Russia proper, it's not surprising that most of the pogroms occurred elsewhere where they did live. What you leave out, though, are the edicts of expulsion and the involvement of Tsarist authorities in instigating riots and pogroms. Take that into account and it adds up to a picture different from the one you paint.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.