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Obama Lawn Sign Battle Rips Apart Community, Bankrupts Homeowner's Association
Christian Post ^ | 2/11/13 | Myles Collier

Posted on 02/11/2013 12:50:46 PM PST by OKRA2012

A confrontation over a political sign and a community's Home Owners Association has occupied four years and nearly half a million dollars in legal fees.

(Excerpt) Read more at global.christianpost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
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1 posted on 02/11/2013 12:50:51 PM PST by OKRA2012
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To: OKRA2012

HOAs AND 0bama supporters are overly emotional.


2 posted on 02/11/2013 12:54:47 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: OKRA2012

Don’t follow the link. It brings up an ad.


3 posted on 02/11/2013 1:03:22 PM PST by I want the USA back
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To: OKRA2012

They posted a sign that was too big.
They were notified of the violation.

They reduced the size of the sign.

The HOA still levied a fine. The owners fought back and won.

The other owners should be very angry at the Board members who approved the fine against the compliant sign.

HOAs are great, as long as everyone follows the rules they agreed to when they bought.


4 posted on 02/11/2013 1:06:25 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Universal Background Check -> Registration -> Confiscation -> Oppression -> Externination)
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To: OKRA2012

Pretty crazy. The HOA said that the sign was 4” too big, so the homeowners cut the sign in half.

End of story, you’d think. But no, they had to continue the lawsuit right into bankruptcy. What else did they expect?


5 posted on 02/11/2013 1:06:53 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: OKRA2012

“... Bankrupts Homeowner’s Association...”

precisely what should happen to these silly little fiefdoms!


6 posted on 02/11/2013 1:07:20 PM PST by petro45acp (No good endeavour survives an excess of adult supervision)
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To: OKRA2012

Lest anyone doubt the natural inclination of mankind to petty tyranny, we have HOAs to disabuse us of such notions.


7 posted on 02/11/2013 1:09:16 PM PST by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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To: Owl558

And those who shouldnt be in charge always work their way in.


8 posted on 02/11/2013 1:13:48 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: petro45acp

Some Mexican families bought a new home in my neighborhood. I use the plural because the restrictions are one family per home. They sheetrocked the walk 2 feet behind the garage door. Many time they leave the garage door open and you can see studs and insulation. The HOA is getting the problem fixed. So, I can’t complain too much about the HOA.


9 posted on 02/11/2013 1:15:05 PM PST by Terry Mross (How long before America is no more?)
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To: Beelzebubba
"HOAs are great, as long as everyone follows the rules they agreed to when they bought."

While that's generally correct, there are always people who can become obsessed with even a small amount of power over their fellow beings.

10 posted on 02/11/2013 1:16:56 PM PST by Baynative (I'm reading a book about anti-gravity. I can't put it down.)
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To: petro45acp

I find it refreshing and telling that conservatives can apply their values even when they support someone we disagree with politically.

If only the other side were as intellectually honest.


11 posted on 02/11/2013 1:17:26 PM PST by Heavyrunner (Socialize this.)
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To: Beelzebubba
HOAs are great, as long as everyone follows the rules they agreed to when they bought.

Yeah, but what happens when the day comes you cannot but into anything that isn't HOA?

Ever read Agenda 21?

Who, grants HOA's their power?

12 posted on 02/11/2013 1:19:06 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
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To: Terry Mross

See your point, but that will only be good until the hoa determines there is a problem with your own property. Then it will be (should be) “what business is it of yours if I want to paint my door red or plant a certain variety of bush...”

Thought this whole thing was about building/making a home, and not about the property values.

.02

YMMV


13 posted on 02/11/2013 1:21:18 PM PST by petro45acp (No good endeavour survives an excess of adult supervision)
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To: Owl558

Lest anyone doubt the natural inclination of mankind to petty tyranny, we have HOAs to disabuse us of such notions.


Actually, it’s a conservative principle that private owners can put their own rules on their own property (the developer, hoping to attract buyers who value the rules). Moreover, we also agree that governance should be at the most local level possible.


14 posted on 02/11/2013 1:23:25 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Universal Background Check -> Registration -> Confiscation -> Oppression -> Externination)
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To: OKRA2012

$400,000 in legal fees for the HOA. I bet their counsel put a ring through their noses and led them down a path of daisies while uttering assurances of success all the way to bank.


15 posted on 02/11/2013 1:24:03 PM PST by Rebelbase ( .223, .224, whatever it takes....)
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To: OKRA2012
So in order to comply with regulations, the Farrans simply cut the sign in half. Unfortunately, the HOA did not find the action to be appropriate and decided to levy a $900 for the yard sign, setting off an epic legal battle.

Not enough info. Did they put the two halves next to each other? Is there a restriction to the number of signs?

16 posted on 02/11/2013 1:24:03 PM PST by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: Owl558
Lest anyone doubt the natural inclination of mankind to petty tyranny, we have HOAs to disabuse us of such notions.

And also a great reminder of mankinds great willingness to surrender freedom in exchange for placing heavy restrictions on others.

17 posted on 02/11/2013 1:24:45 PM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: Las Vegas Ron

>>Yeah, but what happens when the day comes you cannot but into anything that isn’t HOA?

Absurd premise leads to absurd results. HOAs exist only as much as there is perceived free-market demand for what they offer. Most HOA rules even provide a process for their own dissolution. The vast majority of residences and residential lots are not in HOAs.

>>Ever read Agenda 21?

Make your point, instead of trying to disqualify me.

>>Who, grants HOA’s their power?

The private property owner who owned the land that was subdivided into the lots. Anyone opposed to HOAs is basically opposed to private property rights.


18 posted on 02/11/2013 1:28:33 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Universal Background Check -> Registration -> Confiscation -> Oppression -> Externination)
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To: Beelzebubba

“Actually, it’s a conservative principle that private owners can put their own rules on their own property (the developer, hoping to attract buyers who value the rules). Moreover, we also agree that governance should be at the most local level possible.”

Actually so its he builder can control the homeowners they’ve screwed until they sell the remaining homes.

HOAs are the pipe dream of the petty dictator. Most people dont understand them or even know about them before signing the contract.


19 posted on 02/11/2013 1:31:00 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: OKRA2012
Home Owners Association, worst approval than congress!

I'm torn, they are Obama supporters, but they did take down their HOA !!

20 posted on 02/11/2013 1:32:57 PM PST by TexasCajun
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To: OKRA2012
Just in case anybody here ever gets elected to Congress or gets appointed to a federal job ~ you need to know about Northern Virginia.

First off none of you can afford to live in Arlington or Alexandria so get that out of your head. On the other hand you probably can afford to live in much of Fairfax County, particularly the part with the Alexandria mailing addresses

if you end up in Fairfax you have two choices ~ 10 acre minimum lots on 1.5 lane roads, littered with broken tree branches, up and down rugged hills ~ that's our primary watershed area with low density zoning to protect the water. There are no gas stations within that area so you'll always need to go somewhere else to get anything.

Then there's the rest of the county and that's almost always going to be condo or HOA ~

You want to check out the bylaws to see if the HOA did what ours did which was to abjure the extension of association bylaws into areas already governed by county ordinance or state law.

If so, you are OK, else go somewhere else.

This case is one where the association's bylaws AND covenants covered the same event as a county ordinance and state law ~ to wit, the placement or positioning of a political campaign sign on, around, near, upon, behind, over or inside or outside of the dimensions provided in the state law.

Campaign signs are always defined according to the tastes of the observer. However, if you tear one down before election day they can prosecute you and possibly imprison you for it. If you tear one down AFTER election day the judges won't touch it on a dare! Nothing more unloved than an overage political campaign sign.

The HOA appears to have deviated from common sense.

21 posted on 02/11/2013 1:33:20 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: petro45acp

See your point, but that will only be good until the hoa determines there is a problem with your own property. Then it will be (should be) “what business is it of yours if I want to paint my door red or plant a certain variety of bush...”

Thought this whole thing was about building/making a home, and not about the property values.


Simple. Just don’t buy a home where the rules limit your door color or landscaping options. Some of us don’t want neighbors with bright colored doors, or bizarre alien topiary. We’re happy all enjoying the enhanced value of living by the same rules.


22 posted on 02/11/2013 1:33:44 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Universal Background Check -> Registration -> Confiscation -> Oppression -> Externination)
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To: Las Vegas Ron
Who, grants HOA's their power?

In Virginia POAs have limited power by law. Not all POA's follow the law and there are still ways to abuse power, but the law (about 5 or 10 years old) has shifted some power back to homeowners.

23 posted on 02/11/2013 1:34:15 PM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: SampleMan

In Florida its nearly impossible to buy a new home that is not in an HOA. The developers like it that way.


24 posted on 02/11/2013 1:34:24 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Beelzebubba
In Virginia the boilerplate in your Covenants and a state law provide that the HOA can dissolve if and only it hands over its property, cash reservers and authority over covenants to a new organization devoted entirely to the same purposes as the original HOA.

Here, they are permanent!

25 posted on 02/11/2013 1:35:57 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Beelzebubba

HOA’s are evil, we know all know it


26 posted on 02/11/2013 1:39:14 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: palmer

The latest changes clearly differentiated between condos and HOAs with SFD. There’s no reason whatsoever for SFD to have architectural rules. With condos, there really does have to be a single pre-set standard.


27 posted on 02/11/2013 1:40:25 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Beelzebubba
And voluntary.

No "conservative" should have a problem with people who associate freely and CHOOSE to follow an agreed-upon set of rules.

But hey, it's FR and the internet.

28 posted on 02/11/2013 1:40:27 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass (So?)
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To: Beelzebubba

“HOAs are great, as long as everyone follows the rules they agreed to when they bought.”

Unfortunately, those rules always allow for MORE rules to be created. In the HOA where I live (with 1 acre lots), they tried to pass rules like, “No yardwork except from 8AM-4PM on weekdays”, and to ban horses, and to require permission before you stained your wood door. The CC&R had almost NO rules in them, but the HOA BOD couldn’t resist the desire to add more rules, and more, and more...

We had so many recall elections that the HOA voted to dissolve by an 85:15 margin...

Feels good to live in a no-HOA area.


29 posted on 02/11/2013 1:42:45 PM PST by Mr Rogers (America is becoming California, and California is becoming Detroit. Detroit is already hell.)
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To: muawiyah
You want to check out the bylaws to see if the HOA did what ours did which was to abjure the extension of association bylaws into areas already governed by county ordinance or state law.

My POA has tried to fool with enforcing certain association by-laws and has gotten ignored or slapped down. Sheriffs most don't care what happens on private property unless it reaches felony status. The county doesn't take sides if anyone from the POA stands up against a POA decision; they ask for the POA to sort it out amongst themselves. The board has gradually come to realize that the owners are not going to tolerate partial enforcement and full enforcement is impossible, therefore there is no enforcement (of controversial covenants).

30 posted on 02/11/2013 1:42:55 PM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: driftdiver
Most people dont understand them or even know about them before signing the contract.

Grown adult people we're talking about here?

Really?

31 posted on 02/11/2013 1:43:15 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass (So?)
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To: OKRA2012

HOA rules should be very basic only. No trash in the yards, no unchained wild dogs, no loud music during sleeping hours etc...otherwise homeowners (as taxpayers) can decorate as they wish unless a few neighbors complain about something then it can be addressed individually. Glad my home isnt in an HOA district. We do just fine without the lil dictators.


32 posted on 02/11/2013 1:43:59 PM PST by tflabo (Truth or Tyranny)
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To: driftdiver
Most people dont understand them or even know about them before signing the contract.

Then "most people" are idiots, and shouldn't even own a home in the first place.

33 posted on 02/11/2013 1:44:52 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: muawiyah

SFD?


34 posted on 02/11/2013 1:45:31 PM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: driftdiver

And those who shouldnt be in charge always work their way in
= = = = = = = = = = =
AMEN!... I should be the Treasurer because my father was a CPA. And the ‘idjits’ that go the meetings say FINE.
What about G for being in charge of Streets, Snow Plowing and patching, he owns a Paving Company.
NO! He isn’t quite qualified and doesn’t come to meetings (maybe because he is working 15 hrs a day in season).
J would be a good choice because his 2 sons and daughter work for G so from talking to his kids he should know the business.

Also, when doing work for these groups or even ‘clubs’, it is best to get a GOOD down payment, insist on ONE spokesperson - if a least not a down payment put money in a joint escrow account.
You are ALWAYS going to get at least one person who thinks you and someone in the organization are in cahoots and going to split the money...etc...
I was contracted to do a job for a KofC (which I was a member of Org, not this particular unit) and one evening I went in and told the bartender to set the bar up (8 people).
One of my contacts called me aside and said I shouldn’t be throwing money around like that as it didn’t look right.
BTW....at the time -during Happy Hour etc the set up cost me about 4 bucks.... maybe 2 bottles of beer (without tip) at the local watering hole....


35 posted on 02/11/2013 1:45:54 PM PST by xrmusn (6/98 "It is virtually impossible to clean the pond as long as the pigs are still crapping in it")
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To: Beelzebubba
The private property owner who owned the land that was subdivided into the lots. Anyone opposed to HOAs is basically opposed to private property rights.

You are kidding right?

Your premise is completely false.

A property owner who sells land to be divided up, then subsequently be purchased by those who now become property owners them selves has dictatorial power over new said land owners?

Please tell me you left off the sarc tag.

HOA"s are Agenda 21, read it.

36 posted on 02/11/2013 1:46:07 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
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To: Beelzebubba

“Simple. Just don’t buy a home where the rules limit your door color or landscaping options. Some of us don’t want neighbors with bright colored doors, or bizarre alien topiary. We’re happy all enjoying the enhanced value of living by the same rules.”

Absolutely correct!


37 posted on 02/11/2013 1:48:00 PM PST by petro45acp (No good endeavour survives an excess of adult supervision)
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To: petro45acp

HOAs...

for people who think the Federal, State, County, and Municipal governments don’t have enough layers of control over their lives.


38 posted on 02/11/2013 1:48:11 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: OKRA2012

The previous house I owned was part of an HOA. Neighbors down the street decided they wanted to build a garage with an upstairs rec room and a utility room connecting it to the house proper.

They jumped through all the required hoops, getting the ok from the surrounding neighbors and the HOA architectural committee. But when the addition was almost complete the neighbors decided they didn’t like it afterall and tried to get it all torn down over it allegedly having a roofline 18 inches above the contractors concept drawing ...


39 posted on 02/11/2013 1:48:28 PM PST by tanknetter
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To: MrB

HOAs - For the little “Hitler” that lives in all of us.


40 posted on 02/11/2013 1:50:00 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: palmer
The easiest thing to do in Fairfax is adhere to the sign ordinance and the grass ordinance ~ we also have a pigeon ordinance (bet you weren't aware of that one). Persian fellow in the neighborhood bought in before he realized he couldn't keep a flock of pigeons in R8/R5 zoning ~ after we took him to court with a civil suit he bought somewhere else!

Last place to go to on a covenant violation is the cops ~ you really need to go to court first ~ after consulting with the miscreant.

The pigeon guy actually went to the cops about neighbors killing his birds ~ which is how we found out about the flock.

41 posted on 02/11/2013 1:50:25 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: palmer
In Virginia POAs have limited power by law. Not all POA's follow the law and there are still ways to abuse power, but the law (about 5 or 10 years old) has shifted some power back to homeowners.

I'm not sure what a POA is, but in any event, I'm glad to hear that rights are going back to the property owners.

42 posted on 02/11/2013 1:51:04 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
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To: Las Vegas Ron

The private property owner who owned the land that was subdivided into the lots. Anyone opposed to HOAs is basically opposed to private property rights.

You are kidding right?

Your premise is completely false.


I didn’t make a premise. I stated a fact.

The developer applies rules to all the lots, each both burdened and benefited. He selects the rules based on what will enhance the value the most for the buyers (maximizing his profits. It might be limitations on outdoor pets, or basketball hoops, or setbacks, or color schemes. Or an agreement to pay to maintain a pool or clubhouse, or airstrip, or gun range. That is all his right as a private property owner.

Then, he sells to willing buyers, who agree to abide by the rules, while benefiting from neighbors’ following the rules.

It is the sovereign power of a person over his own property. Anyone who thinks that they’d be enslaved by such dictatorial tyranny is free to buy elsewhere.


43 posted on 02/11/2013 1:53:50 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Universal Background Check -> Registration -> Confiscation -> Oppression -> Externination)
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To: tanknetter
That's one of the most grievous violations of zoning ~ not just HOA rules ~ there's a thing called "height of bulk" ~ usually measured from the curbline, sometimes from the middle of the street right of way.

Whatever you do don't do that one ~ BTW, the proponents of those standards will whip fire safety, snow accumulation, and a couple of dozen other things on you so you can't win!

Surprised the architect didn't check his clearances!

44 posted on 02/11/2013 1:54:04 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: dfwgator; MrB; Beelzebubba
HOAs - For the little “Hitler” that lives in all of us.

I just had a poster here tell me if I didn't support HOA's I wasn't for property rights.

See post #18

45 posted on 02/11/2013 1:54:15 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
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To: Beelzebubba

“...The private property owner who owned the land that was subdivided into the lots. Anyone opposed to HOAs is basically opposed to private property rights.”

Anyone who is opposed to hoa, should simply exercise private property rights elsewhere.

“...Ya pays yer money and ye takes yer choice...” (unknown carnival barker?)

.02


46 posted on 02/11/2013 1:54:45 PM PST by petro45acp (No good endeavour survives an excess of adult supervision)
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To: tflabo

HOA rules should be very basic only. No trash in the yards, no unchained wild dogs, no loud music during sleeping hours etc...otherwise homeowners (as taxpayers) can decorate as they wish unless a few neighbors complain about something then it can be addressed individually. Glad my home isnt in an HOA district. We do just fine without the lil dictators.


No kids in a retirement development?
Earth tone exterior colors in a forested upscale mountain resort?
Limiting plants to those not requiring substantial watering?
No less than a certain square footage to ensure comparable property values?
No vacation rentals?
Saving up for eventually repaving the roads?

Funny things is, when some outsider (like you, or the government) tries to tell an owner what’s best for the property they intend to sell, they inevitably end up screwing it up. Just like the Soviet Union.

And if the eventual owners decide they don’t like the rules, they can change them, or disband the HOA.


47 posted on 02/11/2013 1:58:34 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Universal Background Check -> Registration -> Confiscation -> Oppression -> Externination)
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To: Beelzebubba

Absolutely correct ~ you don’t like rules, go somewhere else. BTW, about 99% of the condos and HOAs around here involve clustering of the dwelling units on the buildable property and the consolidation of the less buildable property into a common property owned by the HOA, That way, theoretically, you get a woodland/park situation, with just a bit tighter residential section. The result is that just about everywhere you go in Fairfax County you have forests and clustered housing.


48 posted on 02/11/2013 1:59:06 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Can’t afford a lawyer and the covenant violation was firearms. The deputy who we consulted said they can go after reckless discharge but not any old discharge.


49 posted on 02/11/2013 1:59:17 PM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: petro45acp
See your point, but that will only be good until the hoa determines there is a problem with your own property. Then it will be (should be) “what business is it of yours if I want to paint my door red or plant a certain variety of bush...”

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't most of these covered in the Doctrines and Covenants that people sign when they purchase condos or homes in gated communities?

I could see if they change something with out telling you after you sign but if you have given your consent to abide by the rules the only recourse would be to sell and move.

50 posted on 02/11/2013 2:00:20 PM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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