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An Evangelical Pope?
Townhall.com ^ | February 17, 2012 | Michael Youssef

Posted on 02/17/2013 1:03:50 PM PST by Kaslin

The media, including some in the Christian media, throw around the word evangelical with little understanding of its proper definition. Most recently, the media has done this in referring to Pope Benedict XVI as the “Evangelical Pope.”

In an attempt to say he’s a missionary-minded Pope, or a proselytizing Pope, they impart a title that would probably make him most uncomfortable.

I have a deep respect for Pope Benedict. Respect for his impressive intellect. Respect for his strong stand on moral issues. Respect for his belief in the uniqueness of Jesus Christ for salvation. Respect for his levelheadedness in understanding other religions. The list could go on and on.

But to label the Roman Catholic Pontiff as evangelical is an attempt to mix oil and water. About the only thing those two elements have in common is they are both liquids.

Evangelical is a word that was invented to define protestant believers who attest to the fact that salvation is only through faith in Jesus Christ alone.

The evangelium, or the gospel, is the good news that any sinner can come to Jesus in repentance and faith, believing that His death and resurrection as a substitute for their own deserved punishment. That is the only way that sinners (which includes all of humanity by birth) can be eternally saved.

The Roman Catholic Church cannot be called evangelical. For, although they would agree with the good news of the gospel, they would deem it not quite sufficient for salvation.

They would say that you must also:

• Come to Jesus through the mother church • Believe in the Seven Sacraments • Believe in intercession by the blessed virgin • Believe in the intercession of the saints • Be baptized in the Catholic Church • Attend mass and confession • Believe that during mass, the bread and wine are transformed into the literal body and blood of Jesus • Believe in the ex cathedra infallibility of the Pope

And that’s just to mention a few. But any one of those, by definition, conflicts with the core of evangelical belief: that salvation equals Jesus plus nothing more.

True evangelicals view baptism and the Lord’s Table as important symbolic reminders, but they don’t view them as necessary for salvation. Nor do they believe that priests, bishops, or popes have any authority other than the authority of God’s own Word in the Bible.

In an age that is so enthralled with muddle thinking and ambiguity, it is critically important that people, especially members of the media, use words properly and with clarity. The serious differences between evangelical and Catholic beliefs should not be ignored nor minimized.

Nonetheless, evangelicals need to be in deep prayer that we may one day have an “evangelical Pope.” After all, the Roman Pope claims to be the successor of the Apostle Peter.

For when Jesus asked the disciples if they knew who He was, it was Peter who declared this truth: “You are the Son of the living God.”

Peter never viewed himself as the embodiment of Christ on earth. In fact, he called himself a “servant of Jesus.”

Thus we need to pray in our hearts and on our lips that our Roman Catholic friends would call a pope who truly sees himself like Peter—as a servant of Jesus, and as a proclaimer of salvation through Jesus and nothing else.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: christianity; evangelical; faithandfamily; popebenedictxvi

1 posted on 02/17/2013 1:03:57 PM PST by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

It doesn’t matter who the Pope is. He could be Jesus Christ come back to Earth and the Catholic haters would go insane.


2 posted on 02/17/2013 1:09:52 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum ("Somebody has to be courageous enough to stand up to the bullies." --Dr. Ben Carson)
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To: Kaslin

“Evangelical is a word that was invented to define protestant believers who attest to the fact that salvation is only through faith in Jesus Christ alone.”

So, the author is claiming ‘evangelical’ has only one use? I wonder how the Evangelists (the ones in the Bible not the ones on TV) would feel about that?


3 posted on 02/17/2013 1:17:39 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: Kaslin
But any one of those, by definition, conflicts with the core of evangelical belief: that salvation equals Jesus plus nothing more.

So much for the Trinity...but since that word isn't in scripture either, no surprise there.

4 posted on 02/17/2013 1:19:38 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Kaslin
• Come to Jesus through the mother church • Believe in the Seven Sacraments • Believe in intercession by the blessed virgin • Believe in the intercession of the saints • Be baptized in the Catholic Church • Attend mass and confession • Believe that during mass, the bread and wine are transformed into the literal body and blood of Jesus • Believe in the ex cathedra infallibility of the Pope

These are the prescriptions to be a member of the church community, not salvation. Catechism CCC 847 says clearly that salvation can be outside the church. It is considered 'normal' to be saved in the church (as most churches teach in one way or another) but possible to be saved outside the church and are not Catholics. The Catholic Church views three separate possible baptisms info faith. Baptism by the church- being saved in the church. Baptism by blood- martyrdom or deathbed conversion outside the church. And Baptism by Desire- salvation by those outside the church but still seeking and believing in God.

5 posted on 02/17/2013 1:23:27 PM PST by mnehring
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To: Kaslin

From Todays Readings

For the Scripture says,
No one who believes in him will be put to shame.
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek;
the same Lord is Lord of all,
enriching all who call upon him.
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”


6 posted on 02/17/2013 2:19:15 PM PST by reefdiver (Be the Best you can be Whatever you Dream to be)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

The poster is incorrect when he writes Catholics believe that to be saved a person must: “ Come to Jesus through the mother church • Believe in the Seven Sacraments • Believe in intercession by the blessed virgin • Believe in the intercession of the saints • Be baptized in the Catholic Church • Attend mass and confession • Believe that during mass, the bread and wine are transformed into the literal body and blood of Jesus” While Catholics by and large believe those, they don’t believe that a person must believe them to be saved. For instance, Catholics believe people in other denominations may be saved. Those separated bretheran obviously do not go to mass, believe in the bread and wine being transformed, don’t go to confession, believe in the intercession of the virgin Mary, etc.

Sheesh, a little research in the Catechism of the Catholic Church would have answered the posters questions.


7 posted on 02/17/2013 2:27:12 PM PST by rcofdayton (.)
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To: Kaslin
The Roman Catholic Church cannot be called evangelical. For, although they would agree with the good news of the gospel, they would deem it not quite sufficient for salvation.

They would say that you must also:

• Come to Jesus through the mother church • Believe in the Seven Sacraments • Believe in intercession by the blessed virgin • Believe in the intercession of the saints • Be baptized in the Catholic Church • Attend mass and confession • Believe that during mass, the bread and wine are transformed into the literal body and blood of Jesus • Believe in the ex cathedra infallibility of the Pope

And that’s just to mention a few. But any one of those, by definition, conflicts with the core of evangelical belief: that salvation equals Jesus plus nothing more.

If I was as ignorant of Catholic teaching as is the writer of this scree, I would be an anti-Catholic.

“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.” ― Fulton J. Sheen

8 posted on 02/17/2013 3:26:07 PM PST by fidelis (Zonie and USAF Cold Warrior)
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To: mnehring
Oh really? So the Catholic Church really doesn’t believe what it said?

Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam:
“We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

The mass is declared by Trent to be a propitiatory sacrifice and necessary for salvation:

In this divine sacrifice...that same Christ is contained and immolated in an unbloody manner who once offered himself in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross...This sacrifice is truly propitiatory...If any one saith, that the sacrifice of the mass is only a sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving; or that it is a bare commemoration of the sacrifice consummated on the cross, but not a propitiatory sacrifice...and that it ought not to be offered for the living and dead for sins, pains, satisfactions and other necessities: let him be anathema (The Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent. Found in Philip Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1910), Doctrine on the Sacrifice of the Mass, Chp. II, p. 180, Canon III).

9 posted on 02/17/2013 3:30:54 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2)
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To: Kaslin

Not sure what he means by “believe in.” I do know for example that Catholics believe that Sacraments are given to us by Jesus to help us find Grace. Just sitting on a bump in the road and saying “I believe in Jesus and that’s it, that’s all I need to do” is silly.


10 posted on 02/17/2013 4:05:18 PM PST by Mercat (Never laugh at live dragons)
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To: CynicalBear

Pope’s are human beings and sinners. I believe that only twice has a Pope spoken infallibly.... Immaculate Conception and the Assumption. To be Catholic, I must believe in those two tenants and no, they are not in the Bible but pretty much everything else that the Church teaches is. We’re not making this stuff up for crying out loud.


11 posted on 02/17/2013 4:08:53 PM PST by Mercat (Never laugh at live dragons)
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To: rcofdayton; mnehring; CynicalBear

If you are familiar with the many debates on the Religion forum here, you might have seen that some RCs interpret Lumen Gentium as meaning one must yet convert to Catholicism to be saved, as do some Traditional Catholic groups. And which has RC support from the past, http://peacebyjesuscom.blogspot.com/2011/09/contradictions-in-roman-catholicism.html, even if they are wrong.


12 posted on 02/17/2013 4:11:36 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Exactly


13 posted on 02/17/2013 4:17:05 PM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Kaslin

Oh, what a bunch of piffling and wittering. “Evangelical” means “delivering the Christian message.” (Some version of “evangelion” is the word for “Gospel” in most languages.)

If Pope Benedict has not been “evangelical,” both as Pope and earlier in his service, I don’t know who has!


14 posted on 02/17/2013 4:19:21 PM PST by Tax-chick (Oh, what's the point?)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Next thing we’ll hear about the Southern Baptists called “Catholic.”


15 posted on 02/17/2013 4:22:48 PM PST by cookcounty
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To: Tax-chick
"Oh, what a bunch of piffling and wittering. “Evangelical” means “delivering the Christian message.” (Some version of “evangelion” is the word for “Gospel” in most languages.)"

Pope Benedict also a believed in baptism, Pentecost Sunday and an episcopal form of church government, but that didn't make him a Baptist or a Pentacostal or an Episcopalian.

"Evangelical," as historically and widely used in North America, refers to a certain set of convictions which Pope Benedict only partly shares. The term is used to differentiate one form of Protestantism from the rest, AND from the Catholic Church

In Germany, "Evanglische" is what the Lutheran Church is called....so is the Pope also a Lutheran?

If I recite the Apostles creed, including the "holy catholic church" part, should I say I am Catholic, even though I do not accept the authority of the Pope, his idea of baptism or salvation??

16 posted on 02/17/2013 4:38:13 PM PST by cookcounty
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

The priests and the parsons would be waiting to burn him at the stake should Jesus come back to earth.


17 posted on 02/17/2013 5:36:25 PM PST by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: Kaslin

I had always thought Evangelical could be defined as someone who is first and foremost a Christian Saved by Christ and identifies with that more than with a specific doctrine of Christianity. And that Evangelicals and Baptists believe that being Catholic does not necessarily mean that you are or are not Saved - a Catholic, in their opinion, could be someone who truly accepts Christ as their savior or could be someone who does not accept Christ as their Savior. I could be entirely wrong of course but this is just my personal understanding of how Evangelicals and Baptists and perhaps other sects like Methodists view the Catholics.


18 posted on 02/17/2013 6:04:50 PM PST by pythonjavaawk
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To: Tax-chick; cookcounty; mnehring; Kaslin
>>> The media, including some in the Christian media, throw around the word evangelical with little understanding of its proper definition <<

No kidding. I think it really started getting ridiculous when the media started referring to Rick Santorum as the "Evangelical" candidate because he got a lot of votes from Evangelical Christians. By that logic, Obama is the "Jewish candidate"

>> The Roman Catholic Church cannot be called evangelical. For, although they would agree with the good news of the gospel, they would deem it not quite sufficient for salvation. They would say that you must also: • Come to Jesus through the mother church • Believe in the Seven Sacraments • Believe in intercession by the blessed virgin • Believe in the intercession of the saints • Be baptized in the Catholic Church • Attend mass and confession • Believe that during mass, the bread and wine are transformed into the literal body and blood of Jesus • Believe in the ex cathedra infallibility of the Pope <<

The author is flat out wrong here, as mnehring notes, this is what the Catholic Church prescribes in order to be a member in good standing of the Catholic Church, not for salvation. The Catholic Church has clearly stated one can be saved without being a member of the Catholic Church.

>> “Evangelical is a word that was invented to define protestant believers who attest to the fact that salvation is only through faith in Jesus Christ alone.” <<

I also think the author's definition is off here. "Salvation is only through faith in Jesus Christ alone" is one of the central tenants of the Protestant reformation ("Sola fide") and is accepted by virtually every major protestant denomination, so by the author's logic, any protestant would be "Evangelical", including the "mainline" protestants.

I really think the word "Evangelical" has been tossed around so much that it's become virtually meaningless, like how everyone from Paul Ryan to Arlen Specter has been called a "RINO" at some point.

>> sees himself like Peter—as a servant of Jesus, and as a proclaimer of salvation through Jesus. <<<

The Pope and the Catholic Church DOES see the Pope's role as this -- he is a human being, a successor to Peter, and like Peter, one given the task of proclaiming Christ's message on earth.

>> embodiment of Christ on earth <<

Here, the author gets it wrong yet again. "Vicar" means "substitute". He is simply filling in for Peter and Jesus, and is not a reincarnation of either of them. The Pope is fully capable of sin and many Popes have sinned greatly. The Pope is not seen as a "embodiment of Christ on earth" by Catholics, but a human tasked with carrying on Christ's message in the best way he can.

>> Oh, what a bunch of piffling and wittering. “Evangelical” means “delivering the Christian message.” (Some version of “evangelion” is the word for “Gospel” in most languages.) If Pope Benedict has not been “evangelical,” both as Pope and earlier in his service, I don’t know who has! <<

>> Pope Benedict also a believed in baptism, Pentecost Sunday and an episcopal form of church government, but that didn't make him a Baptist or a Pentacostal or an Episcopalian. "Evangelical," as historically and widely used in North America, refers to a certain set of convictions which Pope Benedict only partly shares. The term is used to differentiate one form of Protestantism from the rest, AND from the Catholic Church In Germany, "Evanglische" is what the Lutheran Church is called....so is the Pope also a Lutheran? If I recite the Apostles creed, including the "holy catholic church" part, should I say I am Catholic, even though I do not accept the authority of the Pope, his idea of baptism or salvation?? <<

Here's an example where capitalization really counts. It's similar to how calling someone a "libertarian" means they ascribe to a certain political ideology, but may be any political party, whereas calling someone a "Libertarian", implies they are a member of the Libertarian Party.

Pope Benedict XVI certainly does "evangelize", but he is not a "Evangelical" Baptists across the United States certainly promote catholic worship, but they are not members of the Catholic faith. And so on, and so on...

19 posted on 02/17/2013 6:45:06 PM PST by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: Mercat
>> We’re not making this stuff up for crying out loud.<<

LOL Just adopted most of it from the pagans. Most of what the Catholic Church does is of pagan origin and condemned by God.

20 posted on 02/17/2013 7:19:05 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2)
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To: CynicalBear
Most of what the Catholic Church does is of pagan origin and condemned by God.

With a little effort and integrity, you can cure your ignorance:

Is Catholicism Pagan?

Catholic "Inventions"

More Catholic "Inventions"

Anti-Catholic Whoppers

The Anti-Catholic Bible

21 posted on 02/17/2013 8:19:47 PM PST by fidelis (Zonie and USAF Cold Warrior)
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To: fidelis
>> With a little effort and integrity, you can cure your ignorance:<<

Been through all of those, thanks. I’ll give you one that’s older and has a lot more authority.

Deuteronomy 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.

31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods;

Do you think God was kidding when He said not to use idols in worship of Him and that He hated it and it was an abomination?

Here’s another one you may want to consider.

CCC841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day.

Do you serve the same God as the Muslims? The CCC says you do. I don’t.

With a little effort and integrity, you can cure your ignorance and get you information from scripture rather than the RCC.

22 posted on 02/17/2013 8:37:30 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2)
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To: Kaslin
Evangelical is a word that was invented to define protestant believers who attest to the fact that salvation is only through faith in Jesus Christ alone.

Err... no, evangelical wasn't "invented" for this it means pertaining to or in keeping with the gospel and its teachings derived from Latin evangelicus

23 posted on 02/17/2013 9:43:07 PM PST by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: CynicalBear; fidelis
CB, the believer in the GAP theory, again, yet again you are wrong.

. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator," --> God has a plan of salvation -- and that is Christ's sacrifice.

" in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; " --> NOTE: this is AFTER Christians and Jews who are referred to in earlier chapters, all Christians of various stripes and Jews are much closer to each other than we are to hindus or muslims etc. Among those who are not in the Judeo-Christian tradition, you have Moslems, avowed monotheists. hence by the virtue of them acknowledging a one god, they are closer to Judeo-Christian tradition than polytheists or athiests

"these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, " --> they "profess", that doesn't say anything if they do or don't.

"and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”" --> They adore the one, merciful God, but they are flawed in that their worship is directed to Satan, Allah. They may adore God, but they do not realize they are not worshipping Him.

You do realise there is a difference between “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator," and "Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:", right?

Or do you think God's plan does not "include" everyone -- whether they are saved or not? Or do you not believe that Christ did not die for all mankind?

24 posted on 02/17/2013 10:04:24 PM PST by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: CynicalBear; fidelis
CB, the believer in the GAP theory, again, yet again you are wrong.

. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator," --> God has a plan of salvation -- and that is Christ's sacrifice.

" in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; " --> NOTE: this is AFTER Christians and Jews who are referred to in earlier chapters, all Christians of various stripes and Jews are much closer to each other than we are to hindus or muslims etc. Among those who are not in the Judeo-Christian tradition, you have Moslems, avowed monotheists. hence by the virtue of them acknowledging a one god, they are closer to Judeo-Christian tradition than polytheists or athiests

"these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, " --> they "profess", that doesn't say anything if they do or don't.

"and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”" --> They adore the one, merciful God, but they are flawed in that their worship is directed to Satan, Allah. They may adore God, but they do not realize they are not worshipping Him.

You do realise there is a difference between “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator," and "Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:", right?

Or do you think God's plan does not "include" everyone -- whether they are saved or not? Or do you not believe that Christ did not die for all mankind?

25 posted on 02/17/2013 10:04:53 PM PST by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: CynicalBear; fidelis
The Conciliar statement also wisely adds the caveat, all too often ignored by the Church’s critics, that “Mohammedans” (Musulmanos) are “professing” to hold the faith of Abraham. Whether or not they actually hold it is arguable, but the Vatican Council is only noting that they claim for their faith that it is that of Abraham, without discussing whether or not Islam actually is an authentically Abrahamic faith.

Muslims figure in the “plan of salvation” just as other non-believers, Hindus, Moslems etc, just as you, Cynical Bear also, figure in this plan

26 posted on 02/17/2013 10:09:00 PM PST by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: CynicalBear; fidelis
Do you serve the same God as the Muslims? The CCC says you do. I don’t. --> stop putting your own, incorrect, interpretation each time

As far back as 1076, Pope St. Gregory VII wrote to Anzir, the king of Mauritania, that “we believe and confess one God, although in different ways.”

Pope Gregory doesn’t say that the one God that he and King Anzir both worship is the same God. All he says is that both he and Anzir worship one God; in other words, they’re both monotheists.

the Council speaks of “Muslims” (Musulmanos), not “Islam,” adoring with Catholics the one and merciful God. It is a manifest fact that Muslim people believe that their God and the Christians’ God is the same.

And the Second Vatican Council is not actually making a definitive statement on that issue. It is saying that both Catholics and Muslims adore the one and merciful God, and while that clearly does indicate a certain commonality, there can be no doubt about one thing it certainly doesn’t mean: that Muslims and Catholics adore the same God in every particular, for Catholics do not believe that Muhammad was a prophet or the Qur’an is God’s Word, and Muslims do not believe that Jesus is the Son of God or the Savior of the world, or that God is Triune.

That is all that Vatican II is really saying about Muslims: they’re monotheists, they say they belong to the religion of Abraham, and they revere Jesus, but not as the Son of God, and His Blessed Mother.

27 posted on 02/17/2013 10:11:59 PM PST by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: Cronos

Muslims do not accept Jesus as being of God and a spiritual Savior for Christians because Mohammed being from the root of Rachael ,not Sarah, left him out of the lineage David to Jesus. Mohammed needed his own lineage to God thus the establishment of his Allah.


28 posted on 02/17/2013 10:52:27 PM PST by noinfringers2
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“Evangelical” has become a term to describe a certain theology - the experiential “born again” brand of the wilderness, and later the cities of 19th Century America.

This is not the same as Catholic.


29 posted on 02/18/2013 1:35:12 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: fidelis

>>”With a little effort and integrity, you can cure your ignorance

Good luck with that! :)

Some would have to admit they are not the Church. Pride gets in the way.


30 posted on 02/18/2013 1:42:22 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: CynicalBear

Citing parts of the CC again, eh?

It’s a weak argument that has to distort it’s opponent’s.

If you wish to be honest, do the whole section - from the beginning. And argue against that.

What does the header say?


31 posted on 02/18/2013 1:45:17 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: CynicalBear

You’ve been called on this before. Can you be honest on it this time?


32 posted on 02/18/2013 1:46:31 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: fidelis

Sorry, should have pinged you on the previous two posts.


33 posted on 02/18/2013 1:48:06 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Cronos; CynicalBear

In UpsideDown Land we have those who think the Church, bulwark against Islam, is proIslam.

The Church that defended the Christianity against Islam, with a cost of much blood, is to them now a defender of Islam.

The Pope, severely critisised for his calling out of Islam, is now a defender of Islam - to these fools.

Anything and everything false is true, if need be to support their anti-Church rants.

Shameful to all those in Christ.

Thankfully, it is a tiny group, barely worth the time it takes to expose them.


34 posted on 02/18/2013 1:54:42 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr; Cronos; fidelis

So basically what you are all saying is that you do indeed worship the same God but just that you worship Him differently. Got it.


35 posted on 02/18/2013 5:16:01 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2)
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To: CynicalBear

No, basically I’m saying what I said:

Anything and everything false is true, if need be to support their anti-Church rants.


36 posted on 02/18/2013 9:03:28 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: daniel1212

There was a priest in the 1950s who had a radio show, I think his name was Father McGloughlin. He was excommunicated because he preached there was no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Sure there may be some idiot RCs who teach the same thing, but if they are public enough, they will be excommunicated too.


37 posted on 02/21/2013 2:21:07 PM PST by rcofdayton (.)
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To: rcofdayton

Perhaps you are thinking of the “Father Feeney,” who was famous for preaching there was no salvation outside the Roman Catholic ch., but even he “was not excommunicated for preaching that there was no salvation outside the Roman Catholic,” but due to repeatedly refusing several summons to Rome. http://alcazar.net/Feeney2.html
Church.”

And he was reconciled to the Roman Catholic Church in 1972, but was not required to retract or recant his interpretation of “Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus”, which is inscribed on his tombstone.

And considering some of the statements of the past, one can understand why Traditional RCs dissent from the affirmations of baptized Prot salvation, and deny that one may die as a Protestant and be saved. Or at the least this is inferred.

Others interpret Extra ecclesiam nulla salus as meaning only baptized Prots who are ignorant of Rome’s claims to be the OTC can be saved, while others includes those of honest faith who sincerely do not see Rome as being so.


38 posted on 02/21/2013 7:36:42 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: CynicalBear
Nope, basically what we are all saying is that you do indeed worship the same God as the unitarians

Catholics acknowledge that Moslems, and you are monotheists, and claim to worship the same God as Abraham, but nothing more.

39 posted on 02/23/2013 7:28:26 PM PST by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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