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Veterans are receiving letters from VA prohibiting the ownership or purchase of firearms
RedFlagNews.com ^ | Feb 21, 2013 | Michael Connelly, J.D.

Posted on 02/21/2013 8:00:07 PM PST by wesagain

How would you feel if you received a letter from the U.S. Government informing you that because of a physical or mental condition that the government says you have it is proposing to rule that you are incompetent to handle your own financial affairs?

What if that letter also stated: “A determination of incompetency will prohibit you from purchasing, possessing, receiving, or transporting a firearm or ammunition. If you knowingly violate any of these prohibitions, you may be fined, imprisoned, or both pursuant to the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, Pub.L.No. 103-159, as implemented at 18, United States Code 924(a)(2).”?

That makes is sound like something right from a documentary on a tyrannical dictatorship somewhere in the world. Yet, as I write this I have a copy of such a letter right in front of me. It is being sent by the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs to hundreds, perhaps thousands, of America’s heroes. In my capacity as Executive Director of the United States Justice Foundation (USJF) I have been contacted by some of these veterans and the stories I am getting are appalling.

The letter provides no specifics on the reasons for the proposed finding of incompetency; just that is based on a determination by someone in the VA. In every state in the United States no one can be declared incompetent to administer their own affairs without due process of law and that usually requires a judicial hearing with evidence being offered to prove to a judge that the person is indeed incompetent. This is a requirement of the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that states that no person shall “… be deprived of life, .............

(Excerpt) Read more at redflagnews.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: banglist; firearms; guncontrol; homoelectus2; military; ptsd; secondamendment; va; veterans; vets; vetsadministration; vetsguncontrol; vetsguns
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1 posted on 02/21/2013 8:00:16 PM PST by wesagain
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To: wesagain

It looks like the folks who have filed for disability for PTSD (etc) may be losing their gun rights, eh?


2 posted on 02/21/2013 8:04:01 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Kinda crazy. This will lead to the civilian population too. PTSD is pretty ugly so hopefully once they are “cured” they will get the privilege back. I think this is a slippery slope but I would imagine that if the Vet gave up the 100 percent disability money they could rescind the letter.
3 posted on 02/21/2013 8:15:48 PM PST by napscoordinator
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To: wesagain
When there is no justice there is no law. Anarchy reigns.
4 posted on 02/21/2013 8:18:10 PM PST by W. W. SMITH ((Yuri Bezmenov (KGB Defector) - "Kick The Communists Out of Your Govt. & Don't Accept Their Goodies.)
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To: wesagain

Patently unconstitutional (regardless if good idea or bad).


5 posted on 02/21/2013 8:22:30 PM PST by faithhopecharity
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To: napscoordinator
they will get the privilege back

What privilege are you talking about?

6 posted on 02/21/2013 8:23:20 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: napscoordinator
Kinda crazy. This will lead to the civilian population too. PTSD is pretty ugly so hopefully once they are “cured” they will get the privilege back. I think this is a slippery slope but I would imagine that if the Vet gave up the 100 percent disability money they could rescind the letter.

Are you a complete idiot?

8 posted on 02/21/2013 8:26:08 PM PST by DBeers (†)
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To: DBeers

I do not think a letter overrides the second amendment


9 posted on 02/21/2013 8:28:32 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: blam
This is ominous. He goes on to suggest those on social security could get a letter preventing them from buying or owning a firearm because they are OLD.

So, how do they get the guns from the old people? If they knew the old people had them, then they could withhold their social security check until they turned in their guns. Some states now that require a gun to be registered, would provide the data base for that state and the feds would stop those SS checks until the guns were turned in.

In states where guns are not registered, how would they know which old people had them and how many they had?

Never register a gun. When you pass 65, if that is the age limit, you could lose your guns or your check.

Hussein wants our guns and he will make “rules” to get them.

10 posted on 02/21/2013 8:30:46 PM PST by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: DBeers

No but it sure sounds like the VA has the control right now. I guess you think your little statement is going to change what is going on.....maybe you are the complete idiot. I see you are really changing things....ROTFLMAO.


11 posted on 02/21/2013 8:30:52 PM PST by napscoordinator
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To: napscoordinator

There’s a difference between a privilege and a right.


12 posted on 02/21/2013 8:34:24 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Fine. Right then. I still think it is a slippery slope. I guess you guys think this is just grand. I find it rather a bad thing.


13 posted on 02/21/2013 8:35:48 PM PST by napscoordinator
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To: wesagain
Sic semper tyrannis
14 posted on 02/21/2013 8:36:28 PM PST by MrBambaLaMamba (This Message Contains Privileged Attorney-Client Communications)
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To: napscoordinator
OK so just how many persons do you actually know with PTSD? I've sat in therapy sessions with a couple of combat Vets with it and I would trust them fully. I'd hunt with or target practice any time with them. PTSD doesn't mean a person is a risk to others or even self in most cases.

I've had it myself from some events in my life that weren't pleasant ones in a fairly short time. I got help. This policy will do nothing but discourage persons from getting help. Furthermore without substancial evidence they violate the VETS Constitutional Rights and due process.

15 posted on 02/21/2013 8:36:38 PM PST by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: wesagain

Well, here it is.

I believe the FFL forms one fills out during gun purchases asks if one has ever been “adjudicated” mentally ill - that is, found mentally ill by the preponderance of evidence in a judicial detention or commitment hearing. Such hearings are only held, as far as I know from having testified in them in a number of states, when the person is suspected - because of a mental illness - of presenting an immanent and substantial danger to self or others, or to be “gravely disabled,” i.e. unable to meet basic needs for food, clothing and shelter.

That a Federal bureaucracy such as the VA, based on mere review of records, presumes to bypass this whole judicial process, and thus deprive due process rights to the very vets who have come to them for help, is, if true, extremely disturbing.


16 posted on 02/21/2013 8:38:57 PM PST by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: napscoordinator

Oh, Coordinator of Naps...the 2nd amendment is an unalienable right and NOT a privledge.

But I get your drift.

Looks like no one who values the Bill of Rights should expect fair treatment from the government, especially if expecting an entitlement.


17 posted on 02/21/2013 8:40:14 PM PST by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: cva66snipe

I know a few who have PTSD (no I did not sit in therapy sessions). I do know that they are receiving monthly payments for PTSD. This is how the VA is getting around this....they are giving money and OF COURSE they are attaching conditions on continuing the money. Oh they won’t come out and say that but I guarantee that this is their goal or desires.


18 posted on 02/21/2013 8:46:02 PM PST by napscoordinator
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To: SatinDoll

That was when we were under the Constitution, my FRiend. That was before the majority of those that vote decided they would rather live as slaves dependent upo the Government to wipe their collective asses than to live as free responsible citizens.


19 posted on 02/21/2013 8:47:49 PM PST by sport
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To: SatinDoll

You are 1 MILLION percent correct!!!!! You are the ONLY one who gets it!!!!!!


20 posted on 02/21/2013 8:49:21 PM PST by napscoordinator
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To: wesagain
End result of this stupidity:
No vets ever go to V.A. because they fear being disarmed....

Just....f'ing...great!
21 posted on 02/21/2013 8:52:33 PM PST by 45semi (A police state is always preceded by a nanny state...)
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To: wesagain

Someone looking to feed the bottom feeders? Maybe angling for money from causing lawsuits and seeking kickbacks?


22 posted on 02/21/2013 8:53:28 PM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: jongaltsr

Smiles

Well said brother


23 posted on 02/21/2013 9:03:43 PM PST by Steve Newton (And the Wolves will learn what we have shown before-We love our sheep we dogs of war. Vaughn)
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To: jongaltsr

“I was blown up three times.”

Sir,

On behalf of everyone on FR and on this thread, I thank you for your service to our nation and our Constitution.

God bless you.

PastorBooks


24 posted on 02/21/2013 9:07:30 PM PST by PastorBooks
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To: jongaltsr
I earned that right and so did thousands of others.

At the risk of seeming nit-picky, I must respectfully disagree. You did not earn that right. You always had that right as it was a God-given right. You served to protect the God-given rights of American citizens to keep and bear arms. And thank you for doing so, sir!

25 posted on 02/21/2013 9:11:05 PM PST by 17th Miss Regt
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To: 17th Miss Regt

Guess it depends upon your point of view.
You are absolutely correct - however - I ALWAYS pay for what I get if I am required to or not.


26 posted on 02/21/2013 9:14:21 PM PST by jongaltsr
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To: napscoordinator

PTSD has many faces.
PTSD does not “necessarily” mean you have gone over the deep end.
It could just be that you loose some of your memory, or just become depressed but being depressed doesn’t mean that you are unable or unstable.

Unless you have PTSD you don’t understand PTSD.


27 posted on 02/21/2013 9:18:18 PM PST by jongaltsr
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To: sport

Most folks do not take the time to research candidates for President. I do.

The weird thing about Obama was when I began looking into his background, information began to be scrubbed off the internet. This was in March 2008.

I brought some information to Free Republic at that time and in April 2008 my computer was hacked and files stolen. My nephew tracked the hack to a Senate office building in Washington, D.C.

Over the next 10 - 11 months my computer was hacked three more times. The last time was right after the inauguration and originated in Washington, again. (The two inbetween hacks occurred during the campaign and originated from Chicago.)

I had found evidence that Obama wasn’t born in the U.S.A. and that he was a communist.

People didn’t want to believe, instead relying upon the MSM. Those media folks have been threatened; I’ve even persuaded a couple of them to admit to me that’s the case.

The odd thing about this situation is how many people are still expecting to be saved by someone else. It doesn’t work that way.

“To live as free responsible citizens”, as you so aptly put it, means we do it ourselves.

Oh, and I’ve been answering my front door with a loaded shotgun nearby since 2008, just to be careful.


28 posted on 02/21/2013 9:18:31 PM PST by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: W. W. SMITH

>>When there is no justice there is no law. Anarchy reigns.

Anarch-tyranny is the term and concept you are looking for. Everyone here should be familiar with it, we are living it in many ways.


29 posted on 02/21/2013 9:19:21 PM PST by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: SatinDoll

Thanks for your response.


30 posted on 02/21/2013 9:28:12 PM PST by sport
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To: SatinDoll

Thanks for your response. Continue to be very,very careful.


31 posted on 02/21/2013 9:28:46 PM PST by sport
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To: jongaltsr
I ALWAYS pay for what I get if I am required to or not.

...one way or another

32 posted on 02/21/2013 9:29:20 PM PST by Doogle (USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: wesagain

One of the things that pisses me off about this is that the army has made a BIG point about convincing suicidal soldiers that there is no stigma for seeking mental health treatment. And now this?


33 posted on 02/21/2013 9:34:10 PM PST by GodfearingTexan
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To: napscoordinator

It is already occurring in civilian arena. Friends father was dying from cancer, father was notified by state of Illinois that his FOID had been cancelled.
He was informed that weapons and ammunition needed to be disposed of in approved manner, never was able to determine who,what or why he was determined to be a risk.

Only explanation I could think of was that Illinois cross referenced his HIPPA records with gun DB. Supposed to be Illegal for either DB, but it is Illinois.


34 posted on 02/21/2013 9:35:34 PM PST by Nailbiter
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To: SatinDoll
Wise choice, Satin. I pack because there was once a time I did not do such in going to my door. Call it a lesson learned. Today is much different from yesterday, and my pocket always has protection inside for what is outside.
35 posted on 02/21/2013 9:36:07 PM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: wesagain
How would you feel if you received a letter...that you are incompetent to handle your own financial affairs?

What if that letter also stated: “A determination of incompetency will prohibit you from purchasing, possessing, receiving, or transporting a firearm or ammunition. If you knowingly violate any of these prohibitions, you may be fined, imprisoned, or both pursuant to the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, Pub.L.No. 103-159, as implemented at 18, United States Code 924(a)(2).”?

So they are saying you can be incompetent to run your own finances and incompetent to have a gun and so forth, but still competent to stand trial for violating the Brady Law (assuming they intend to try you before fining or imprisoning you). Wonderful.

36 posted on 02/21/2013 9:39:46 PM PST by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: napscoordinator

If, by the grace of God, we somehow survive this second Obama term, we will all have PTSD.


37 posted on 02/21/2013 9:45:49 PM PST by kevao (.)
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To: napscoordinator
No but it sure sounds like the VA has the control right now. I guess you think your little statement is going to change what is going on.....maybe you are the complete idiot. I see you are really changing things....ROTFLMAO.

Here are a few clues -the VA is under the federal Executive; The right to bear arms e.g. the right to defend your life and property is a God given right NOT a government granted privilege; rights can not be taken away without due process.

38 posted on 02/21/2013 9:47:48 PM PST by DBeers (†)
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To: Doogle

That Murphy fellow shows up a lot these day. If only his first name was Audie.


39 posted on 02/21/2013 9:54:18 PM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: wesagain
I've been saying that Obamacare will lead to gun control.
It WILL lead to gun control. The people who are really mental will not be the target.
40 posted on 02/21/2013 9:56:35 PM PST by MaxMax
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To: Olog-hai

a privilege requires a permit from the provider of the privilege in order to exercise the privilege. the privilege provider can, at any time, withdraw the priviledge at their whim

please explain to me the first step in obtaining a firearm in the US

then explain to me what a right is and how that relates to the second amendment


41 posted on 02/21/2013 10:09:18 PM PST by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: wesagain

“How would you feel if you received a letter from the U.S. Government informing you that because of a physical or mental condition that the government says you have it is proposing to rule that you are incompetent to handle your own financial affairs? “

Sounds like what we believe is the coming Extortion-Care, 2014.


42 posted on 02/21/2013 10:16:11 PM PST by Varsity Flight (Extortion-Care is the Government Work-Camp: Arbeitsziehungslager)
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To: wesagain
A wise freeper in my past saw this coming. It will be anyone on any meds at all or who has ever seen a counselor of any kind, AND anyone with any physical disability, AND the elderly.

The rest will get nailed by super high insurance premiums/riders.

43 posted on 02/21/2013 10:21:14 PM PST by MarMema
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To: wesagain

they will determine your compentcy without your input... then remove your rights... all by mail

mind boggling

of course, what’s the penalty for violating Constitutional rights? nothing. and therefore, they willingly violate without fear.

there really needs to be penalties


44 posted on 02/21/2013 10:25:18 PM PST by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: dragnet2
What privilege are you talking about?

Thanks! That was close. My head almost exploded.

45 posted on 02/21/2013 10:25:28 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (To cut down on needless laws and regulations, engaging in junk science should be a felony.)
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To: cva66snipe

“This policy will do nothing but discourage persons from getting help.”

You said it.......

The freakin gubermint does this stuff all the time....You know the quote......(Hi! I’m from the government and I’m here to help!)

Just sign here and initial these 16 boxes......

LOL!

I fired the VA when Obummer was elected and they started using the VA as a Obama Care experiment. It took them 3 weeks to screw up what it took years to fix under previous admins.. and the VA was no longer a viable option for me. Gave them the Heave Ho.....


46 posted on 02/21/2013 10:26:57 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: I want the USA back

ping


47 posted on 02/21/2013 10:29:31 PM PST by MarMema
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To: sten
they will determine your compentcy without your input... then remove your rights... all by mail

Then send the sheriff over to kill your dogs and search your home to make sure you have complied.

48 posted on 02/21/2013 10:30:53 PM PST by MarMema
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To: Pride in the USA; Stillwaters

Here’s a giant WTF!


49 posted on 02/21/2013 10:33:32 PM PST by lonevoice (Today I broke my personal record for most consecutive days lived)
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To: SatinDoll

He is a Kenyan, a Muslim, and a Communist. PERIOD. I am totally beyond “re-education”, so Feds don’t even BOTHER trying;) By the way, has even ONE of his former teachers come forward to say “I taught the FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT of the United States”??? What bragging rights would such a teacher have!! Well, WHERE ARE THEY???? This guy has NO BACKGROUND, other than what “he” wrote in “his” book...Stay safe, SatinDoll!!!


50 posted on 02/21/2013 10:35:00 PM PST by Frank_2001
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