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The Great Ammunition Myth - The government is not planning a violent putdown of civil unrest.
National Review Online ^ | March 5, 2013 | Charles C. W. Cooke

Posted on 03/05/2013 4:31:55 PM PST by neverdem

Last year, the Social Security Administration put out a procurement request for 174,000 rounds of “.357 Sig 125 grain bonded jacketed hollow point pistol ammunition,” prompting a few on the Internet to work themselves up into something of a frenzy. “It’s not outlandish,” claimed Paul Joseph Wilson, one of a team of professional paranoiacs on the Infowars website, “to suggest that the Social Security Administration is purchasing the bullets as part of preparations for civil unrest.” “Something strange is going on,” harmonized Breitbart’s William Bigelow. Even Mark Levin was concerned. “I know why the government’s arming up,” he deduced. “It’s not because there’s going to be an insurrection; it’s because our society is unraveling.”

The Social Security Administration’s purchase was by no means an anomaly. A year earlier, the unlikely pair of the Department of Agriculture (320,000 rounds) and the National Weather Service (46,000 rounds) had both put out tenders for ammunition. And slightly less odd, but still staggering, were the FBI’s professed intention to purchase up to 100 million “hollow point” rounds and the Department of Homeland Security’s concurrent request for 450 million rounds. The Department of Education got in on the weapons-supplying spree, too, purchasing “27 Remington Brand Model 870 police 12-gauge shotguns.”

The first question: “Why?” The second: “Should we be worried?”

The appeal of this story is obvious, and that some citizens keep track of such things shows an admirable vigilance. But while a healthy suspicion of government serves these United States better than critics presume, facts remain the stubborn things that they always have been, and skepticism is no virtue at all when it proves impervious to reason. Those who are vexed that the state is stocking up on ammunition — and troubled by fears that this might be a step toward D.C.’s assault on the citizens for whom it works — can relax for now. Whatever the federal government has become, it is not yet plotting violence against the people.

Nonetheless, one could reasonably ask why the Social Security Administration would need any ammunition at all. Are the elderly especially unruly these days? Jonathan L. Lasher, in the SSA’s external-relations department, explained to the Huffington Post that the ammunition is “for the 295 agents” in the outfit’s office of inspector general “who investigate Social Security fraud and other crimes.” Divide the rounds by the number of agents, and you get about 590 per agent; in a given year, that’s about ten rounds a week. “Most will be expended on the firing range,” Lasher continued.

Okay. And why does the USDA need 320,000 rounds? Because it runs the Forest Service, which covers “155 national forests” and “20 national grasslands” on a total of “193 million acres of land.” As well as agents in the field, the outfit has a law-enforcement unit based in Washington, D.C., whose responsibility it is to enforce federal laws and regulations. In context, those 320,000 rounds look a lot less threatening: If the U.S. Forest Service were to distribute ammunition at the same rate as the Social Security Administration, they would have enough for just 542 agents — not bad for an organization that covers an area the size of Pakistan (or twice the size of Japan or Germany).

It’s all about scale. Forty-six thousand rounds also sound like a lot for the National Weather Service. (Actually, the ammo was requested by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement, which is overseen by the same department.) In reality, it’s not that much. The service has only 63 armed personnel, which brings the purchase out at around 730 rounds per officer. This, suffice it to say, does not present a great threat to the Republic. As the NRA has noted, “more than a few NRA members would use that much ammunition in a weekend shooting class or plinking session.” There are enough risks to the right to bear arms and to American liberty in general, the NRA continued, without “inventing threats.”

The FBI and DHS’s apparently vast orders are deceptively presented by the conspiracy theorists. It is true that in 2011, the FBI ordered up to 100 million bullets for its 13,913 special agents (which works out to 7,187 per agent). And, yes, the Department of Homeland Security — a composite department that oversees USCIS, Customs and Border Protection, FEMA, ICE, the TSA, the Coast Guard, the Secret Service, and the National Protection Directorate — placed a request for up to 450 million rounds for its 65,000 armed personnel (which works out to 6,923 per agent).

But in the real world, ammunition is not divided up and handed out on such a basis. What is bought is stockpiled and then allocated on the basis of need. The DHS’s order is expected to last for at least five years, and it was placed up front primarily as a cost-saving measure. Moreover, as the chief of staff to Congressman Lynn Westmoreland (R., Georgia) revealed in a press release in May 2012 that was designed to calm the fears of his constituents:

DHS entered into a contract that allows them to purchase up to 450 million rounds of 40 caliber ammunition over the next five years. They cannot exceed 450 million rounds and are not required to purchase 450 million rounds. Basically, they have a tab with a manufacturer to order more rounds as they are needed over the next five years — not a one-time ammunition order.

Think of it like “that monthly trip to Sam’s Club or Costco,” he added.

The popular claim that one in five IRS agents is armed is false, too. Only 3 percent of IRS agents — 2,725 people, to be precise — are “special agents” who work on criminal cases. Also untrue, but a popular talking point: The legions of new IRS agents expected to be hired to enforce Obamacare will be armed. I am second to none in wishing that the IRS did not exist, and that, if it must, it did not have Obamacare to enforce. But that is no excuse for fearmongering, and Ron Paul’s infamous claim that the IRS was set to hire 16,500 “armed bureaucrats” in order to enforce the new health-care law, not backed up in fact, has launched a thousand deranged e-mail chains.

And the Department of Education? The Washington Post’s Valerie Strauss looked into the question of those shotguns in 2010 and received the following response from the Education Department’s Office of Inspector General:

The Office of Inspector General is the law enforcement arm of the U.S. Department of Education and is responsible for the detection of waste, fraud, abuse, and other criminal activity involving Federal education funds, programs, and operations. As such, OIG operates with full statutory law-enforcement authority, which includes conducting search warrants, making arrests, and carrying firearms. The acquisition of these firearms is necessary to replace older and mechanically malfunctioning firearms, and in compliance with Federal procurement requirements.

Fair enough. But here one starts to sympathize with the malcontents. There is a world of difference between the FBI, Department of Homeland Security, or Forest Service and the Department of Education, and that there is no grand clandestine plan for the subjugation of America should by no means be taken to imply that every government action is acceptable. Questions do still abound: Whether it is in possession of one bullet or 1 million bullets, should the federal Department of Education be armed in the first place? If so, why? Should its OIG be investigating external fraud rather than handing it over to the police or the DOJ or the FBI? For those federal departments that play no role in combating domestic and foreign threats — such as the DoE — what would constitute a threat requiring armed confrontation with malefactors?

In 2011, a story about a Department of Education raid went the rounds. Initial versions suggested that the department had commissioned a SWAT team to break into a California home and arrest the estranged husband of a woman who had defaulted on her student loan. Mercifully, this was incorrect. There was no SWAT team involved, nor was the target being investigated for unpaid loans. But the reality was not necessarily much better. Instead, the DoE announced that it had conducted the raid itself, in pursuit of an American citizen that it suspected of “bribery, fraud, and embezzlement of federal student aid funds.” It was a disaster; the suspect no longer lived in the house, a fact that special agents eventually discovered after they had smashed in the doors at dawn, thrown the occupant’s children into a police car, and kept the suspect’s (innocent) husband in handcuffs in a hot squad car for six hours.

As the local ABC affiliate reported, in an attempt to clear up the confusion, “police officers did not participate in breaking [the target’s] door, handcuffing him, or searching his home.” Instead, the Department of Education did. Judging by their ammunition purchases, the Social Security Administration and the IRS could have done so, too. That, and not fantasies about a plan to counter phantom civil unrest, is what should concern Americans.

— Charles C. W. Cooke is an editorial associate at National Review.



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government; US: District of Columbia
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; itcanthappenhere; secondamendment
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To: neverdem

Another post to give the FR church ladies and their mice an excuse to start a gloom and doom parade and shiver their timbers.


81 posted on 03/05/2013 6:44:05 PM PST by sergeantdave
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To: FewsOrange; neverdem; onyx

Re Governor Sarah Palin and “conspiracy theories” -

Stellar record governing, sticking her neck out confronting Obama, 2 books ˜fact-checked” to the hilt, 26,000 emails forced open, and an independently made movie - all show that Gov. Sarah Palin is a hard working, capable, incorruptible, servant of the people.

Gov. Palin has the truth on her side. The more that comes to light, the better for her. The exact opposite of the vast majority of politicians.

I hope she/we are not right about why the government is stockpiling weaponry and ammunition - but I’m afraid she/we are. God help us.


82 posted on 03/05/2013 6:44:32 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (I'll raise $2million for Sarah Palin's presidential run. What'll you do?)
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To: Uncle Miltie

Was not my intention to appear anti-Semitic.

I used the phrase to depict what the RINO Ruling Class are in my opinion. Meaning specifically, one’s own people/party/countrymen joining forces with an enemy in order to assist them with destroying their political targets due hoped-for gains.

In some cases, political survival or to have a seat at the table to divide the spoils.

That is why I used the term. I thought it politically attributable to the Ruling Class oligarchy in the GOP to illustrate their capitulation to the Obama regime.

No offense intended.


83 posted on 03/05/2013 6:48:14 PM PST by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: skeeter; Strategerist
People should just assume that uncle sam knows what he's doing and get on with their lives.

That's what Strategerist/John HK does.

That's all he's ever done.

If you want to know exactly what the state wants you to believe, just read his posts.

84 posted on 03/05/2013 6:52:20 PM PST by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard (Some men just want to watch the world burn.)
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To: neverdem

Well, consider this: Americans have enough ammo to shoot every federal employee 45,879 tines.


85 posted on 03/05/2013 6:53:10 PM PST by sergeantdave
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To: FewsOrange

You forgot about Cher.


86 posted on 03/05/2013 6:54:23 PM PST by deputytess (Men of the West .....stand and FIGHT!)
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To: sergeantdave
Damned sure hope we're better shots than that !


87 posted on 03/05/2013 6:56:15 PM PST by tomkat
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To: FewsOrange
The author is trying to use rational arguments against a conspiracy theory.

I am not sure that "conspiracy" is the correct term to be used here. For argument's sake, suppose the feds do have options planned in the event of civil disorder, which they actually do. Having those plans is not a conspiracy. How can it be a conspiracy? It's not even a secret. However, that there is no conspiracy certainly doesn't mean that the intentions toward us are not malevolent. Again, it's no secret, DHS has made it fairly obvious that it considers patriotic Constitutionalists to be a (the) threat to domestic peace.

That, and not fantasies about a plan to counter phantom civil unrest, is what should concern Americans.

I suggest that statement is correct and not correct at the same time. Sure the feds have plans for dealing with civil unrest, they have plans for all sorts of scenarios, including visits by aliens. The wonks hypothesize about anything that is within the realm of possibility and then plan on how it would be dealt with. However, there are a number of reasons to think that civil unrest in the US is a more real possibility than just "phantom civil unrest". There are a lot of variables in play that could easily fall into place and spark a load of "civil unrest".

But...the other things to which he refers are here and now real and they are very threatening to Americans.

Again, I don't think there is a "conspiracy" in the government to get us. IMO conspiracy implies that they are trying to hide their goals. They aren't. The feds have made it damn clear who they consider a threat in this country. The expansion of the use of surveillance drones on civilians on home soils is not a fantasy. The level of surveillance of all types is a pretty good indication of their attitude towards us. The obvious desire to disarm [law abiding] citizens real and not clandestine. They have also made it clear they consider the 2nd amendment to be an obstacle to federal power and the 4th amendment as another impediment. They are coming after the Bill of Rights, and that means in a very real sense they are coming after us. That is their intent.

Being cognizant of the nasty slippery slope presented by the federales words and actions is not paranoia. It is more of an understanding of the nature of statists.

88 posted on 03/05/2013 7:10:10 PM PST by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s.....you weren't really there)
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To: neverdem

Impeachment File for Benghazi-Coward B. Hussein Obama.


89 posted on 03/05/2013 7:17:44 PM PST by Graewoulf ((Traitor John Roberts' Commune Obama"care" violates Anti-Trust Laws, AND the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: skeeter
Its good to ridicule the skeptical for being suspicious of government's motives.

I ridicule the stupid, the incompentent, and the liars.

And I'M the skeptic. I lifted a finger to research the false assertions about the 2,700 MRAPs, while everyone else just eagerly lapped up Drudge and the original nutter report.

90 posted on 03/05/2013 7:24:10 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: ctdonath2

“Update: An earlier version of this post included a figure of over 2,700 vehicles, as cited from the original RT link. This figure likely comes from a press release from Navistar Defense, mentioning delivery of 2,717 to the U.S. Marine Corps. A DHS Spokesman confirmed with Business Insider that they have only 16 nationwide.”

http://www.businessinsider.com/homeland-security-serving-warrants-mrap-2013-3


91 posted on 03/05/2013 7:25:43 PM PST by rumandmonkey
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To: Strategerist

While you’re working your fingers to the bone doing all that research, why don’t you post the year-over-year ammo sales for the last decade and put this thing to bed once and for all.

You have good sources. You should be able to knock that one right out of Camden Yards.


92 posted on 03/05/2013 7:39:11 PM PST by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard (Some men just want to watch the world burn.)
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To: ConjunctionJunction
Do they really use hollow point rounds for target practice? Somehow I doubt it.

I practice with what I intend to use. Two reasons; 1) to ensure it works properly in my firearm (when the bad guys come knocking is too late), and 2) to learn how different the self-defense stuff is from the plinkin' stuff.

93 posted on 03/05/2013 7:47:43 PM PST by IYAS9YAS (Rose, there's a Messerschmitt in the kitchen. Clean it up, will ya?)
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To: ctdonath2

“Until you get to the 2,700 armored personnel carriers.”
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Oh, be reasonable please, they need SOMETHING to protect them from double amputees with mental problems who go around in wheelchairs forcing law officers into corners and threatening them with ballpoint pens.


94 posted on 03/05/2013 7:50:11 PM PST by RipSawyer (I was born on Earth, what planet is this?)
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To: brent13a
Because, when you divvy up the yearly amount of allotted ammo per agent 500-1000 rounds is much much more than any TEA partier or lifelong hunter will have stockpiled.

Ha. I'm a piker compared to most, and even I have the jack-boots beat by a couple of rounds or so... ;-)

95 posted on 03/05/2013 7:52:21 PM PST by IYAS9YAS (Rose, there's a Messerschmitt in the kitchen. Clean it up, will ya?)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks neverdem. Completely unrelated story:

FBI Performs 2 Million Background Checks Four Months in a Row
Guns.Com | Mar. 5, 2013 | Daniel Terrill
Posted on 03/05/2013 5:02:06 PM PST by EXCH54FE
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2993846/posts


96 posted on 03/05/2013 7:58:52 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: brent13a
That's why my counter-arguments have included that it would 500-1,000 rounds allotted per agent, per year.

DHS has a total of 240,000 employees. If you have a source for how many of those 240,000 are armed agents, I'd love to see it.

Otherwise, what you offer isn't logical deduction. It's a guess.

97 posted on 03/05/2013 8:22:09 PM PST by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard (Some men just want to watch the world burn.)
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To: Strategerist
Well, you could educate the 'incompetent' and 'stupid' by directing them to your sources.

Or you could sit back and continue to throw dung.

98 posted on 03/05/2013 8:22:24 PM PST by skeeter
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To: neverdem

Why can the military standardize on 9mm but the agencies get deliveries of:

.357Sig
.380
.38
.40S&W
9mm

Did I leave anything out?


99 posted on 03/05/2013 8:33:15 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (Obama's vision - No Job is a Good Job)
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To: Strategerist

I disagree. It’s the government, it’s use it or lose it by the end of each fiscal year. I bet they spend it each year.


100 posted on 03/05/2013 8:49:43 PM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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