Skip to comments.Cypriot youth protest as banks stay shut
Posted on 03/26/2013 12:14:48 PM PDT by Kartographer
Cypriots vented anger in the streets on Tuesday and were desperate to learn what would happen to their savings, with the government yet to reveal details of controls it will impose to prevent a run when banks reopen after a painful bailout.
A special administrator was appointed to run the country's biggest bank, which will take over accounts from the second biggest bank as part of the restructuring package designed to bail out and rein in the oversized financial sector.
Cyprus's banks were ordered to remain closed until Thursday, and even then will operate under as-yet-undisclosed capital controls imposed to prevent depositors from emptying the vaults.
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...
Talk about asymmetrical warfare. The European Empire conquers by wrecking economies of its member states and making them dependent on central economic government.
Empty vaults are the foundation of fractional reserve banking.
The people of Cyprus deserve exactly what they are getting. They’ve been voting for these big spending, bloated governments and the banks have acted as their enablers. Now the shareholders in at least one of these banks will be completely wiped out and uninsured deposits (over 100K Euro) will take a massive haircut across the board. This type of bailout actually avoids going directly after the tax payer as others have done. A lot of money streaming into Cyprus banks have been dirty anyway - and everyone knows it.
BS. The people in these nations are electing their own governments. It is their own fault their governments are going broke and their banks are failing. The bankers are just a symptom of the problem, the seedy enablers of massive, unaffordable social welfare states.
These countries could leave the Eurozone if they wanted, but they don't. Greece, for example, could simply default and go it's own way - but it won't because the majority of the people STILL want to hang on to their massive public sector and welfare state.
We are headed in the same direction right here in the US, and it won't be the fault of some "European Empire" conspiracy.
To be somewhat fair, I’m sure there are many decent people there who didn’t vote for Socialists.
Same as here. Do we all deserve shit because 53% of our citizens are stupid or lazy?
In the end, people are collectively responsible for their own government.
to be somewhat fair, Im sure there are many decent people there who didnt vote for Socialists.
Certainly we can feel sorry for the good ones individually. But the population as a whole deserves exactly what they are getting. And yeah, as a nation, we're going to deserve it too when our economy implodes due to out of control spending and debt.
Wait until it comes out for sure that the banks vaults have been emptied!
Yes, all the poor schlubs who didn’t have jet handy (cause unless you had cash, you couldn’t use credit cards to buy airfare) didn’t make it to London to suck it dry.
Yup. Obummer and his goons are surely watching this Cyprus situation with very sharp interest. As are we all, for varying reasons.
Anybody know how many armored personnel carriers the Cypriot police own?
Will we deserve it when it happens here?
There’s very little cash to pass out unless the branch orders it in advance.
I know, I was confused by his statement. Didn’t he watch It’s a wonderful life?
The European Commissions top economists warned the politicians in the 1990s that the euro might not survive a crisis, at least in its current form. There is no EU treasury or debt union to back it up. The one-size-fits-all regime of interest rates caters badly to the different needs of Club Med and the German bloc.There are too many countries affected by this to claim they did it to themselves at this point.
The euro fathers did not dispute this. But they saw EMU as an instrument to force the pace of political union. They welcomed the idea of a beneficial crisis. As ex-Commission chief Romano Prodi remarked, it would allow Brussels to break taboos and accelerate the move to a full-fledged EU economic government.
I understand your point, but I must disagree with you.
I laugh at those who have been mocking all the entities screaming for bailouts, yet now berate the EU for finally demanding some real conditions.
The EU knows what it's doing here IMO...in future the number of people asking for bailouts is going to be seriously curtailed...finally!
Oh I hate the EU, make no mistake about it. I believe its primary objective has always been to further the goal of socialism. European leftists have always known the great danger to their social welfare states would be other European countries that adopted much freer markets and less regulation. The socialists have always known they couldn’t compete. There is no doubt the EU acts as a big bully too.
Still, I’m sorry, but Europeans are not forced to vote irresponsibly. In fact, even the EU busy bodies of all people, have been chiding some of these countries again and again to spend less and get their debt under control. But the people won’t do it. Good grief man, look at Greece right now. The people there STILL don’t really want to cut anything. Slashing some public service jobs is like pulling teeth with the deepest roots ever. The Greeks want to blame everyone but themselves - and the same thing is playing out in the rest of the debt crushed European countries. No one has to take a bailout. They can default and leave the Eurozone, but they won’t do it because it would require too much cutting that they don’t want to do.
We are doing the same thing here in the US. We are not that far behind Europe - maybe a generation or less. People are voting for big, bloated government because they believe politicians that tell them we can live far beyond our means. People have bought the drug of socialism and, just like Europe, it won’t end well - and it will be our own fault.
I detest the EU, but you are correct. For once they mostly went after the bank shareholders and uninsured accounts rather than the taxpayer.
If they just levied a tax there would be endless hemming and hawing about how much and it would likely take months. And then the next legislature could rescind it.
This way, they get some recompense immediately for money doled out to Cyprus...AND there's the added benefit that in future people will be much more careful about asking for money. (Also keep in mind that upwards of 50% of the depositors are Russian...the Cypriots seem to have no qualms about the Russians taking over which gives you some idea of the mindset of the people.)
I agree with your point. I think the EU was doomed to fail from the beginning. (I guess it depends on what is considered failure)
They're trying to copy our system of having a Federal Gov't along with a system of states. But because they lean socialist they are having a heck of a time getting it done.
It seems like they will fail, probably followed by us.
> banks would be opened and peoples money passed out by force.
At that point money would not mean very much. Ammo, fighting skills, shelter and food would be all you need. There would be a lot of rotting corpses in the streets .
The vast majority of member states of the EU do not get a vote, either way. The only country that ratified the Treaty of Lisbon by referendum was Ireland, due to a requirement in their constitution for a popular referendum on such matters. And they were forced to revote due to the first vote being “no”. In the European Parliament, nobody has the power to write any lawsthat power is held by the European Commission, which is also the executive body (i.e. no separation of powers; Montesquieu would have a fit).
Yes, nobody has to take a bailout (which are loans and not grants); but look at the record. Ireland’s government was highly resistant to any loans to bail them out, and that resulted in the government falling and being replaced with a government that was willing to take the loans. Same thing happened with Portugal and Spain. Both Greece and Italy were worse off; they have had their prime ministers appointed for them by the EU in order to artificially create governments that were receptive to bailout loans. Definitely a power play from the top, FWICS.
The USA isn’t a member of any imperial-like socialistic body with the cohesion of the EU, but we do have our own socialists that are bent on wrecking our economy (via borrowing, spending, taxation, welfare giveaways, illegal immigrant amnesty ad nauseam), mainly because the USA is still seen as the last major opponent to world socialism.
No, the EU has modeled their government after the USSR. The structure is very similar to the USSR (appointed Commission acting as Politburo, elected unicameral Parliament acting as rubber stamp); and like the USSR, the central government is about micromanaging its member states and destroying their individual identities (note the similarity between “European Demos” and “Soviet People” for example).
Have a good day.
You as well.
That is the people in those countries fault. If a government falls it means it lacks popular support in said nation. The bailout position became more popular among the people, and the result was a pro-bailout government.
No one is forced to stay in the EU. No one has to take bailouts. A country like Greece could pass on the bailout and leave, instead they chose to take bailouts and stay. It is what it is. The people are responsible for their own government.
The USA isnt a member of any imperial-like socialistic body with the cohesion of the EU
The individual American states are - it's called the US federal government. Wherever possible the Democrat party prefers taxation done on a federal level to prevent some states with low taxes from being more competitive than the more socialist states. They do the same thing with regulation. The left much prefers that the US federal government mandate environmental rules through the EPA, for example, than fight for them on a state level. This is because they know those rules cost money and would make the states that don't enact them even competitive. The goal of the EU is essentially the same thing.
have small businesses started shutting down and letting go the younger workers?
I bet none of them are putting their cash into banks either.
This is the kind of thing you have warning people about
These countries joined the euro thinking they could all spend like madmen and the “others” would pay for it. The problem is that all of them thought the same way and there are no “others”.
Not bilateral by any stretch, and highly complicated. A member state can declare clausula rebus sic stantibus as a last resort, but with the USA basically out of the picture, who will support their contention?
- Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.
- A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention.
In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
- The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
- For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
I have a feeling that finding cash in Cyprus will be like finding ammo here.
The bankers and the regulatory agencies are first in line for being responsible for what is happening here. They are allowed leverage to the gills with crap debt that was always bound to fail. Same thing that has and is happening here.
There were always rules in fractional reserve banking that pretty much made sure that they would stay solvent. Those rules are gone in the interest of greed and thin glass floor expansion. And this is where we have ended up.
Eventually, bond investors then pensioners will take haircuts, and our US currency will also suddenly be adjusted downward to reflect the levels of manufacturing on our own soil (not only “American-based” manufacturing, much of which happens elsewhere). Many useless employees of debt will be laid off in the process.
They’ll huff, puff, screech and do nothing but be as poor as the real producers they’ve connived against for decades: the many who did well, when we had a large, real private sector. They’ll be helpless and scorned even by the the folks they previously sucked up to (environmentalist, politically correct, anti-American, most influential constituents in politics).
Yeah, I guess even a crazy tin foil head wrapped prepper is right every once and a while. ;-)
You take it too far here. I hope I've made it abundantly clear that I am no fan of the EU, but it's nothing even close to the Soviet Union. The EU is far more of a soft tyranny - which most member states are voluntarily joining.
No, the governments didnt fall because of popular demand.
Lots of people and parties are popular till the majority of the citizens figure out there are real consequences to doing something like bucking the EU. Most Europeans in the member nations still prefer to stay in the Eurozone at almost any cost. A majority of voters in these countries are not willing to walk about from the EU. Greece just had a perfect opportunity to do so, and the people didn't do it.
Yes, the stealing of what was stolen continues.
Actually, they were required to vote and then revote until the vote came out the way EU wanted it to come out.
To every Union Republic is reserved the right freely to secede from the U.S.S.R. 1936 Constitution, Article 17Nobody got to vote on joining the euro, incidentally; not even Ireland.
Each Union Republic shall retain the right freely to secede from the USSR. 1977 Constitution, Article 72
That is because no one is actually getting bailed out. Europe is broke. It has no money. Do you think Germans all of people would just give up their money ? No. All smoke and mirrors.
This is what happened in Cyprus. Germany started selling its Greek bond holdings. Cyprus started buying Greek bonds. After the Germans were done selling, they bailed out Greece by wacking the bondholders. That was when Cyprus banks were wacked. 25 Billion in looses due to the Greek Bailout Rescue deal. There is no money. It is a zero sum gain. For everyone bailed out (Greece) someone must be wacked and made to pay for the bailout (Cyprus).
At least this bailout largely targets the bank shareholders and uninsured depositors instead of the Cypriot taxpayers.
At least half the depositors and bank shareholders are Cypriot tax payers.
Come on, your exaggerating badly here. I know they re-voted in Ireland till they "got it right", but I don't think there is a majority in ANY Eurozone country to leave right now. And come on, Germany? The people punish Merkel by voting for the SPD - an even bigger supporter of the Eurozone than CDU/CSU. I agree with you that the elites sold this thing. I've already told you I think it's goal was enable massive social welfare states without the potential competition (among other reasons ofcourse).
It's a mistake for you to assume your disdain (perhaps hatred) for the EU is shared by most Europeans. It's just not the case. Even with all the troubles, bailouts, etc, most Europeans still seem determined to make the EU work. I think its stupid. If I were the Greeks, for example, I'd have used the opportunity to walk away, but they didn't. I don't believe for a minute that parties like Syriza and Golden Dawn will likely last in Greece. Those are just protest votes. In the end the people don't want to leave the EU and they will go along with pretty much any bailout program once they think the EU won't budge.
The vast majority of those do not have 100k Euro in the banks.
Look the banks are insolvent. It is what it is. This is a better "bailout" than just going to the taxpayers. In this case at least you penalize bank shareholders and uninsured depositors - most of whom knew perfectly well that these banks were in deep trouble. And I'm not going to shed too many tears for the Russians who've been hiding money in corrupt, broken Cypriot banks.
Would you prefer German taxpayers just hand Cyprus 10 billion dollars to get their house in order? Maybe you wish Cyprus would just take their chances and walk away from the EU? I'd love to see it myself, but it ain't going to happen. So here we are.
What’s missing from this is e human element. When you go after depositors for cash, you are violating a kind of trust that has been built up for over a hundred years. That’s the main crisis point here not who should pay for insolvent banks. You’re protecting the taxpayers but at the expense of public trust in the banking system.
Some of these banks are completely insolvent. Worse, it wasn't a secret that Cypriot banks were in trouble. What do you think happens when a bank collapses? Someone either bails it out (taxpayers) or the shareholders and uninsured deposits get wiped out. I agree it's a terrible situation, but a haircut on deposits over 100k Euro is better than losing everything - and it's certainly better than having the tax payers bail more banks out.
And how in the world can you blame the Russians for simply depositing their cash in the Cypriot banks ? They did more for Cyprus then the EU ever did. And then Cyprus tried to use that Russian money to bail out the Greeks who the Germans had already written off by selling the Greek bonds the Germans were holding. The Russians were the good guys here. The EU which destroyed Greek bond value and Cyprus bond value is the bad guy.
Germans selling off their Greek bonds before forcing a Bail Out of Greece that wiped out 75 % of the remaining bond value is unethical and their should be laws against that.