Skip to comments.And How Many Bullets Do You Need?
Posted on 04/21/2013 6:42:25 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Last night, I watched the amateur home video of the shootout between Boston and Watertown police and the person referred to as "Suspect #1."
I learned that there were something on the order of 200 shots fired during that firefight.
Think about that for just a moment. It took a dozen or more cops, who are trained professionals, who practice on at least a weekly basis with their firearms, to fire 200 rounds before he finally died.
Yet our politicians (at least here in New York, and some in Washington -- as well as other places, I'm sure) are saying that the most anyone needs to have to protect himself from armed intruders is seven rounds in the magazine.
Of course, it took trained police, who were not dealing with an unexpected attack, who were not roused from a peaceful slumber, who were not worried about their wives and kids, some 200 rounds to kill one dangerous man.
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
Cops do not practice on a weekly basis. Cops are hardly shooting professionals.
Firing hundreds of rounds with a 90% miss rate is standard for cops.
Based on the kind of gear we see these SWAT Rambo’s carrying, I’d think they’ve got full auto capability, the most expensive EOTech sights, lasers, flashlights, grips and doodads etc. that money can buy.
I think they were just itching to butcher up a perp with their toys they’ve had to shoot paper and cardboard with all those times at the tac range.
Cops do not practice on a weekly basis. Cops are hardly shooting professionals.
Which only serves to further nail the original premise.
The older gentleman that taught my concealed carry class trains local city and county police. He said most of them are not proficient with firearms at all.
Usually, one well placed before, after or between the misses. Kinda the way that works. Regardless of ballistics, human nature takes the cake.
Fox News had the Watertown Chief on last night and he mentioned that the rounds fired were “dummy rounds”. I’m an ex SWAT Team member and I have never heard of dummy rounds being used in a hostile tactical action. I’m not doubting his word, I just never heard of this.
Affirmative Darius. The author has it wrong on the facts. What’s worse, is spray and pray is policy in many departments, which is why so many rounds go down range in these events (see the recent situation in Los Angeles where two women were shot in their pickup truck by Torrance PD officers). This practice (spray and pray) violates rule four of the standard gun safety rules - “Know your target and what is beyond.” We were very lucky that the Boston PD didn’t kill or wound innocent civilians. Ricochets can carry rounds quite far and away from their initial trajectory - and they are quite dangerous even at distance. This is very basic stuff for anyone who has even modest experience with firearms.
There were way more than 200 rounds fired!
” cops, who are trained professionals, who practice on at least a weekly basis with their firearms”
Cops are trained but they are not professional gun slingers and they do not shoot weekly. Most only shoot once or twice a year, and even then only 50-100 rounds each time.
Exactly. You train and train and train, in an elite group of mega-testosterone men in their 20s and 30s, and you want to “go live.” Believe me, I saw it.
DOH boy nadler thinks 2 maybe 3 shots is plenty. The asshat in kolorado is probably wondering who’s in charge of picking up all those pre-loaded disposable “clips” for diposal that the cops threw away when empty. His royal high-n-ass coumo agrees to 7 rounds. Me, as many as it takes.
It’s not the Bill Of Needs.
I would say you should have at least one bullet (round for “Buffalo Head” ) at the end of a firefight. How many rounds you need would depend on location, number of purps, how good of a shot you are and several other factors. There is no way to give that a number. Also how many rounds and how often do you want to practice?
No, Jim, you are wrong.
Our politicians would rather we don't have any in the first place.
What happened in Boston is exactly what they had in mind. Citizens cowering in their own homes and Gov Alphabet Agencies/SWAT/light armored vehicles on our streets for our own protection.
I read that the younger brother killed him whe he ran over and dragged him.
You might need 200 bullets to kill a terrorist.
As many as I have cases, primers and powder for. A bullet is only slingshot fodder without the other components of a cartridge.
Stupid, know-nothing columnists (not you S and F)...learn something about guns!
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
I need as many bullets as I have cases, primers, and powder.
That is correct. I can personally attest to that for where I live. The local cops have free use of my shooting club and they hold their qualifications there. It is pretty amusing watching them qualify. (I saw that once last summer.) I wouldn't call them bumbling idiots, but they definitely are not shooting professionals.
Reports here would counter the “dummy rounds” arguement also.
At least as many as the empty brass I have?
What did I win?
Here’s the story on the older brother’s death
The question to be asked about the firefight: what was the capacity of their magazines?
And How Many Bullets Do You Need?
I think someone already answered this question, “AS MANY AS IT TAKES.”
What are they calling a “dummy round”?
A dummy round is just that, dummy, it wont fire.
Has no live primer and no powder.
Has one or more holes drilled through the case to let you know it is a dummy round.
I thought his Muzzie Bro' killed him by running over him with the stolen SUV.
As a competitive shooter, I have helped a lot of cops learn to shoot. I could take the average guy who has never held a handgun and in one day I could teach him to shoot on a level that is above most in law enforcement. The only ones who are shooters are the ones that are ‘gun guys’ and shoot on their own. Most are of the pray and spray type.
A police spokesmen said on TV that the police had to pull back from one of the Watertown engagements because they ran out of ammunition.
Too bad Homeland Security has hogged it all up.
Except they didn't kill him. His brother ran over him with a deadly assault weapon (aka SUV) and it ripped open his ribcage and lungs.
Most cops I know are poor shots.They embassass themselves at the range.
The 'tactic' is to get the perp to use up his ammo, so they can move in without danger.
It’s probaly worth mentioning that FBI crime statistics show that single victim- multiple perpetrator homicides are on the eise. IOW, it is becoming increasingly likely that you will be defending your life against more than one assailent? I had 5 in the cylinder when three perps tried to rob me. Believe me when I tell you, when you’re in that situation you want a large caliber weapon that holds more ammo than you need. 13-15 rounds is about right IMO. 30 is better yet.
I agree with others, it’s time the police set an example and kept to 7 bullets also...maybe back to revolvers.
After all, 6 shots with a decent-sized revolver will kill anyone for sure, if placed correctly.
“And How Many Bullets Do You Need?”
You never have too many guns or enough ammo.
And when they had the young one surrounded passed out in the boat just what were they shooting at, and why does the media call that an “exchange” of gunfire?
A Mere drop in the bucket when government has 1.6 Billion bullets hoarded away.
“Im not doubting his word, I just never heard of this.”
Maybe he meant to say “dumdum”? Though I haven’t heard anyone use that term for soft-nosed bullets outside of an old movie in a long time.
Cuomo is just giving the mob’s standard answer ~ THEY are not affected by such rules, but they’d prefer civilians just get out the way and leave the killing to them.
And from later official announcements, it wasn’t the bullets that killed him, but being run over by his brother that did it.
My brother ran the DCPD shooting range for a number of years and told me the number of misses at close range is incredibly high. People panic and cops are no different unless they have that training so thoroughly ingrained they act reflexively to aim straight.
So true. Cops are notoriously poor shots. They only qualify quarterly.
There is an old book, “Shooting To Live” by W.E. Fairbairn and E.A. Sykes, (yes the guys that designed THAT knife), written by them when they were heads of the pre-war Hong kong police. They decided that the ‘usual carry for duty’ was what in the .38 Special revolver cylinders, plus two reloads, which counts 18 rounds. The ‘home ammunition allotment’ was that number times 365 days, which counts 6,570 rounds, NOT COUNTING, the rounds stored for range usage, which leveled out at 3,650 rounds, separate from the others. Since we Americans like neat, tidy numberings, a nice, round 10,000 rounds would do!
Here’s a link for a freebie download of the book:
re: “I thought his Muzzie Bro’ killed him by running over him with the stolen SUV.”
That’s what I read this morning as well. The younger brother not only ran over him but dragged him several feet/yards as well. Sorry, I don’t have the link to the story.
Spray and pray isn’t policy anywhere.
My advice to all traveling there. If a Thai police officer yells "STOP" you better be skidding to a stop. They were really good. At least those training that day were.
None were in uniform so maybe they were an elite group, not regular street cops.
From the ammount of rounds fired... divided by the number of dead terrorists... I’d say these tacticool warriors that you cite... need MORE time punching paper at the range.