Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Question of the Week: Will Obamacare Collapse?
Townhall.com ^ | July 15, 2013 | Daniel J. Mitchel

Posted on 07/15/2013 6:02:39 AM PDT by Kaslin

We have a very interesting question from a reader in Nebraska. Is Obamacare such a cluster-you-know-what that the law will self-destruct?

Well, I’ve already explained why I’m optimistic about the possibility of turning Obamacare lemons into free-market lemonade.

Simply stated, the law took a healthcare system that already was a mess because of government intervention and subsidies and it doubled down on that misguided approach!

And since it’s highly unlikely that more government is the solution to problems created by government in the first place, I think we’ll have great fun being able to highlight all the bad consequences of Obamacare and make a principled case for pro-market reform (meaning not only Medicaid reform and Medicare reform, but also tax reform to help deal with the third-party payer crisis).

That being said, I don’t think Obamacare will collapse on its own. We’re going to have to give it a push. A big push.

This is because legislation will be required to undo all the taxes and subsidies in the law. And even though we have the bizarre situation of the Obama Administration deciding to deliberately ignore a legal requirement to impose an employer mandate beginning in 2014, we’ll also need legislation to undo both the individual and the employer mandate.

In other words, the fact that the law won’t achieve any of its goals (such as lower costs and universal insurance coverage) won’t cause the bad policy to disappear.

But it will make the law even more unpopular – particularly if we do our job.

That’s why we should relentlessly highlight examples of wasteful Obamacare spending. The Washington Post, for instance, is reporting on “the extreme measures states are taking to get young people signed up for Obamacare programs.”

And when even the Washington Post thinks politicians and bureaucrats are going above and beyond in their efforts to waste money, you know it’s something especially foolish. But when you’re trying to trick young people into signing up for insurance policies designed to subsidize richer seniors, you don’t really have much choice.

Oregon might do branded coffee cups, for example, whereas Seattle is looking at doing outreach at music festivals. It only makes sense, then, that Kentucky would be doing outreach at multiple bourbon festivals across the state.

From a big picture perspective, this type of waste in just a penny or two on the dollar, but it’s very symbolic of a law that is poorly designed and unworkable.

I also think political cartoonists are very helpful allies since they’re so effective at illustrating some of the worst parts of Obamacare. So let’s wrap up this post with a new batch of cartoons.

We’ll start with a couple that skirt the edge of appropriateness by playing off the recent airline crash in San Francisco. The first one is by Steve Breen.


And the second one is by Eric Allie.


The donkey pilot blaming the elephant passenger is a good touch, and you find that theme in this Gary Varvel gem.


Let’s close with a great Rick McKee cartoon that focuses on exploding costs, a message near and dear to my heart.


One final warning. We’re not guaranteed of victory simply because Obamacare is leading to bad results. The statists are going to try and seize control of the narrative by asserting that the higher costs and greater inefficiencies could be fixed by squandering more money in the short run and imposing a single-payer system in the long run.

That’s a very perverse example of Mitchell’s Law and it surely doesn’t make sense to normal people. But it’s an approach that plays to the worst instincts of politicians, many of who will grab any excuse to increase the size and scope of Washington.




TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: democrats; healthcare; obama; obamacare
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-81 next last

1 posted on 07/15/2013 6:02:39 AM PDT by Kaslin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Kaslin; sickoflibs

I have been asking this question for about 6 months now - What will the GOP do when the Dems decide to cut it loose? It is a possibility it will happen before the Fall of 2014.


2 posted on 07/15/2013 6:05:57 AM PDT by Perdogg (Cruz-Paul 2016)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
Question of the Week: Will Obamacare Collapse?

Obamacare could never stand up...it was designed to crush the economy, not help the People.

3 posted on 07/15/2013 6:08:00 AM PDT by MamaTexan (I am a Person as defined by the Law of Nature, not a 'person' as defined by the laws of Man)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

I understand everyone’s unhappiness with Obamacare, but frankly what we had before was also a mess.

I do not, see anyone moving to actually FIX things.

We just seem to waffle between one mess (pre-Obamacare) and another mess (Obamacare)

Either fix Obamacare, or leave it.

We cannot return to what we had.


4 posted on 07/15/2013 6:08:12 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cringing Negativism Network
Until individuals pay directly for their own care, (with a major med policy for catastrophic illnesses) we will never be able to “control costs.”
5 posted on 07/15/2013 6:11:39 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (NRA Life Member)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Cringing Negativism Network

Why don’t we let people buy their own insurance (allowing interstate purchases) and be done with it? Remember, insurance is suppose to protect people from catastrophic loses, not to pay for every little band-aide.


6 posted on 07/15/2013 6:13:47 AM PDT by Perdogg (Cruz-Paul 2016)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

It already is collapsing because it was unworkable right from the start


7 posted on 07/15/2013 6:15:39 AM PDT by rdcbn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Perdogg; Kaslin
RE :”I have been asking this question for about 6 months now - What will the GOP do when the Dems decide to cut it loose? It is a possibility it will happen before the Fall of 2014”

Not sure what you mean.

Up till now most of Obama-care is the candy with the medicine delayed. The medicaid expansion alone will be impossible to get rid of, and now Obama is delaying a big part of the ‘medicine ‘ until after the last midterm elections of his presidency.

Then in 2016 a new Dem comes in to run, say Hillary who had nothing to do with it, and she says ‘mend it dont end it’. If the Republican opponent says 'repeal it' then she will cite medicaid expansion and how all those people will die.

This is not going away.

8 posted on 07/15/2013 6:16:12 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Eric in the Ozarks; Perdogg

Don’t get me wrong.

I support your protest, but we are not advocating an actual fix.

That is my point. Sure we can demand that Obamacare be repealed. But the point is, Obamacare actually made some improvements.

That is the thing. It totally screwed up some other things also. Bigtime.

So the issue is, how can the parts of Obamacare which actually improve care, be kept and the parts which screw things up be dropped?

Nobody is talking about that.

Nobody is talking about fixing things.

American healthcare was far and away the most expensive on the planet.

Bar none. That is among the big issues. Why is American healthcare so darn expensive??

It doesn’t even cover everyone, for crying out loud.

/end rant


9 posted on 07/15/2013 6:20:59 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
Question of the Week: Will Obamacare Collapse?

Only after democrats bankrupt the country trying to prop it up.


10 posted on 07/15/2013 6:22:20 AM PDT by Iron Munro (The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cringing Negativism Network
WHAT was such a mess?

We paid too much?

Blame the insurance companies .. that were legislated into covering their own asses.

Health CARE is the BEST on the planet here.

Health care COSTS were unmanageable.

Doctors did their best by accepting cash payments for substantially less than what the insurance was charging/paying.

The outrage in America over obozocare has started a storm that will (I WANT to believe .. ) cure this 'problem'

11 posted on 07/15/2013 6:22:39 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof, but they're true.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: sickoflibs
Its here to stay...they will just amend it every year to “fix” the problems...like no doctors..they will lower the bar to become a doctor...or let nurses do the job...to expensive..they will have more subsidies...and costs will skyrocket..just bigger deficits...this honor system will be a crash too..as millions will want their free healthcare and no one will say no...more trillions in debt..
12 posted on 07/15/2013 6:23:14 AM PDT by Youngman542012
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

The Rats and Rhinos need the crack delivered to addict the peeps and increase the politicians power. Wake up!


13 posted on 07/15/2013 6:23:21 AM PDT by LALALAW (one of the asses who's sick of our "ruling" classes)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sickoflibs

The dems are already complaining that the meany ole GOP will not fund it. I believe the Dems are looking for an exit.

Limbaugh theorem

“Well since the GOP won’t properly fund the program, we need to repeal it - as much as it hurts me to say this. Plus, the Senate Bill is not really the bill I wanted, I signed it because we needed something and I thought we could fix whatever fundamental problems we had at later time. I have listened to small business and the middle class and I have determined uh uh that we must repeal it. “

- Obama January 2014


14 posted on 07/15/2013 6:25:32 AM PDT by Perdogg (Cruz-Paul 2016)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

It was designed to fail so they could give you the solution, Single Payer.


15 posted on 07/15/2013 6:27:36 AM PDT by bmwcyle (People who do not study history are destine to believe really ignorant statements.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cringing Negativism Network
Either fix Obamacare, or leave it.

We cannot return to what we had.

I disagree. The basic "parts" of Obamacare cannot be fixed; it is an inherently flawed system with far too much bureaucracy and red tape. The few "reasonable" mandates and concepts (pre-existing conditions, buying healthcare across state lines) in Obamacare, do not justify the bloat.

That said, we could return to what we had, AND improve it with just a few small ideas: tort reform, buying insurance across state lines, pre-existing conditions.

The system before sucked because there was already too much government in the mix. It was not horrible.

16 posted on 07/15/2013 6:31:12 AM PDT by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
Outstanding post. Mitchell states that his one legacy to the world is the phrase, “Bad government policy begets more bad government policy.”

There's another, equally true legacy statement that applies to Obamacare: Gall's Law. This law was based on a body of work by John Gall who has extensively studied the nature of systems. Gall concluded that "A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that worked. The inverse proposition also appears to be true: A complex system designed from scratch never works and cannot be made to work. You have to start over, beginning with a working simple system."

We are seeing Gall's Law play out with Obamacare, which is the mother-of-all complex systems. And the worst is yet to come. The underlying supporting systems have not even been put in place yet but when they eventually are Obamacare will inevitably be a fiasco of historic proportions. A great political disaster, the signs of which are already evident even to many Democrats.

17 posted on 07/15/2013 6:32:17 AM PDT by Starboard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lou L

Just as socialism in general is unworkable,
so Obamacare is unworkable in concept.


18 posted on 07/15/2013 6:32:29 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
Obamacare is the ridiculous and fantastic 'Spruce Goose', leviathan that won't fly EITHER!
19 posted on 07/15/2013 6:32:36 AM PDT by SMARTY ("The test of every religious, political, or educational system is the man that it forms." H. Amiel)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bmwcyle

and just wait until the lawyers get involved...lawsuits all over the place...that will double the cost too...


20 posted on 07/15/2013 6:32:51 AM PDT by Youngman542012
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Youngman542012

They want the problems so they can come is a fix the problem. There is noting new under the sun here.


21 posted on 07/15/2013 6:34:09 AM PDT by bmwcyle (People who do not study history are destine to believe really ignorant statements.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
Here's a few more for your collection:


22 posted on 07/15/2013 6:41:08 AM PDT by Iron Munro (The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lou L
buying healthcare across state lines) in Obamacare

Are you allowed to do that? I thought that was one proposal that was shot down to protect crazy systems like some in New England where they want to force insurance companies and customers to cover everything from aroma therapy to sex change operations.

I still believe that Obamacare was designed be collapse so they would have an excuse to fully nationalize the system. They just didn't expect it to happen early enough to abandon the concept entirely. I was watching a show on Lewis and Clark and it was mentioned that the rule (maybe from Napoleon) for planning supplies was to pack at least enough whiskey so that by the time you ran out it was too late for the people to desert and go back. Obamacare is running out on day 2 of a decades long trip.

23 posted on 07/15/2013 6:42:36 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (This message has been recorded but not approved by Obama's StasiNet. Read it at your peril.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Cringing Negativism Network

Obamacare was never designed to improve health care or lower costs. Incremental improvements could have been made, but that didn’t satisfy the liberals’ insatiable desire for power. Fundamentally, Obamacare is all about making people dependent on government. That is what it’s really all about.

In the end, the quality level of existing health care will suffer greatly. Whenever government gets involved, expect a costly and inefficient disaster. Think IRS.


24 posted on 07/15/2013 6:43:35 AM PDT by Starboard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

No it will not collapse, it may be tweaked a bit here and there, but the Rino’s want it as much as obama does, just like amnesty.

Hope I’m wrong about that, but the facts in evidence leads me to the conclusion.


25 posted on 07/15/2013 6:44:28 AM PDT by PoloSec ( Believe the Gospel: how that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cringing Negativism Network

To ‘fix’ it:
1)Reduce Medicaid roles which increases demand and inflate costs, AND invites fraud/waste.

2) End tax subsidized employer health insurance which has grown third-party payer insurance programs. Same problem as above in a slightly different context.

3) Increase HSAs and make them more user friendly.

4) Strip unfunded mandates away from the health insurance market.

5) Tort reform.

5 ‘political third rails’ right there!


26 posted on 07/15/2013 6:46:20 AM PDT by madameguinot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Eric in the Ozarks

here here!


27 posted on 07/15/2013 6:46:57 AM PDT by madameguinot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Lou L

The system before sucked because there was already too much government in the mix.
******
Very true. A most excellent observation.

Incidentally, my family physician “retired” early because he and his wife (a PA) didn’t want their practice subject to the massive bureaucracatic and costly nightmare that would be Obamacare. This was a personal inconvenience for me but I totally sympathized with his decision.


28 posted on 07/15/2013 6:51:10 AM PDT by Starboard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Perdogg
RE :”Limbaugh theorem
“Well since the GOP won’t properly fund the program, we need to repeal it - as much as it hurts me to say this. Plus, the Senate Bill is not really the bill I wanted, I signed it because we needed something and I thought we could fix whatever fundamental problems we had at later time. I have listened to small business and the middle class and I have determined uh uh that we must repeal it. “
- Obama January 2014”

Will never happen. Dems will demand more funding and taxes on the rich and maybe repealing very unpopular stuff.
They will say it makes the case for a public plan.
They will portray killing it as wanting to kill non-white kids.

Also <50% will blame Dems for it failing, more they will blame the GOP for opposing making it more liberal.

Rush is usually wrong and I will add this one to my list.
He also used to say that Obama didnt care about winning 2012 and might not even run, then later he said Romney would win 2012 in a landslide as he predicted for MCain 4 years earlier. Standard Rush silliness.

29 posted on 07/15/2013 6:51:34 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

It was designed to collapse and create a panicky outcry for Single Payer in its wake.


30 posted on 07/15/2013 6:52:16 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Starboard
Obamacare is all about making people dependent on government. That is what it’s really all about.

Fundamentally, it is about the fed gov having more money coming in, which they have control over.

The health aspect? Oh yeah, you get a few bones, now and then.

31 posted on 07/15/2013 6:53:17 AM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Youngman542012

My thoughts too, medicare and social security have been bankrupt for years yet not a chance of repeal.


32 posted on 07/15/2013 6:54:00 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: PoloSec

the Rino’s want it as much as obama does, just like amnesty
*******
You are absolutely right about that. Good comment.


33 posted on 07/15/2013 6:54:14 AM PDT by Starboard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Eric in the Ozarks

We need a like button. The only way we will ever gain control over our own health care again is when we directly pay for it ourselves.


34 posted on 07/15/2013 6:55:12 AM PDT by ShakeNJake (I see dumb people.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Obamacare is suppose to collapse. It is designed to bring about that outcome.

The answer will be yet more and even bigger government to rescue the situation in the single payer system, which should be recognized as the end goal of Obamacare.

Free market solutions are the only REAL solutions while remaining a free nation.


35 posted on 07/15/2013 7:05:09 AM PDT by Wildbill22 (They have us surrounded again, the poor bastards- Gen Creighton Williams Abrams)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cringing Negativism Network

>> I do not, see anyone moving to actually FIX things.

Including you. You just bitch.

What’s your detailed plan to actually FIX things?


36 posted on 07/15/2013 7:06:25 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Nervous Tick

I haven’t put a lot of thought into how to fix healthcare.

To tell the truth.

I just think we need to fix it, not break it again.

I’m not a healthcare expert. Maybe some other posters will post on their ideas.

Thanks in advance.


37 posted on 07/15/2013 7:09:03 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: sickoflibs
It will go much further than taxing the rich. That may be their public words but in reality the costs of everything are going to increase exponentially probably with the addition of a VAT tax. It will start off small but once their client base ( the 49% and oldsters) is addicted to the idea of their medical care they will agree to anything to keep it. I'd imagine like most of Europe we will end up with a VAT somewhere in the 20% range.

Eating out, new clothes, etc. will all become luxuries. We are headed in that direction already.

38 posted on 07/15/2013 7:15:46 AM PDT by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Cringing Negativism Network

Let me get this straight. Because our healthcare system had problems before Obamacare, we should make it worse with Obamacare, until we can make it better. Sounds like a plan to me.


39 posted on 07/15/2013 7:17:20 AM PDT by pallis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: riri
RE :’It will go much further than taxing the rich. That may be their public words but in reality the costs of everything are going to increase exponentially probably with the addition of a VAT tax. It will start off small but once their client base ( the 49% and oldsters) is addicted to the idea of their medical care they will agree to anything to keep it. I'd imagine like most of Europe we will end up with a VAT somewhere in the 20% range.”

I dont see Dems proposing that anytime soon, maybe the cap-and-trade VAT like tax on carbon fuels, that one seems to float their boats.

40 posted on 07/15/2013 7:18:55 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Cringing Negativism Network
I haven’t put a lot of thought into how to fix healthcare...I just think we need to fix it


41 posted on 07/15/2013 7:21:17 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: pallis

Not at all.

I am merely looking for, we keep benefits Obamacare has for people who were not covered before.

Right now, employers are exporting American jobs.

As a result more, and more Americans are without coverage.

First off, we need to reverse the export of American jobs. Companies need to hire and keep American employees, and make things right here in America.

But we also need to cover those who need it.

How we do that, and keep insurance for those with good coverage, is a delicate balancing act.

I’ll let others opine, how we do that.


42 posted on 07/15/2013 7:24:32 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Nervous Tick

Pretty awesome pic, actually.

:D


43 posted on 07/15/2013 7:26:53 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Cringing Negativism Network

Yeah, I thought it was kinda cool.

Have a blessed day.


44 posted on 07/15/2013 7:29:48 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: sickoflibs

I am applying the Limbaugh theorem, Limbaugh did not say this.


45 posted on 07/15/2013 7:34:55 AM PDT by Perdogg (Cruz-Paul 2016)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Nervous Tick

You as well.


46 posted on 07/15/2013 7:36:41 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
Is Obamacare such a cluster-you-know-what that the law will self-destruct?...
47 posted on 07/15/2013 7:40:45 AM PDT by AngelesCrestHighway
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Perdogg
RE :”I am applying the Limbaugh theorem”

What is that theorem?

48 posted on 07/15/2013 7:42:04 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: sickoflibs
That Obama is never seen responsible for anything.
49 posted on 07/15/2013 7:44:27 AM PDT by Perdogg (Cruz-Paul 2016)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: sickoflibs
I hope and prey you are correct. We are really in a race against time, IMO. Hopefully, it all unravels and people get angry enough before dependency becomes widespread enough. I know my own health insurance, (once a great plan) is now crap. I virtually am better off paying cash out of pocket many times than using it.

The country really can not afford much more in the way of increased consumer prices. many things have doubled since Hussein took office as it is. I just returned from a month in Sweden. I first started living and going there about five years ago. Five years ago, I was in abject shock at the consumer prices of everything there. Now, we are nearly on par in many cases. In some cases, I was finding certain things cheaper there. We are already taking it in the shorts and getting nothing in return. Absolutely nothing.

50 posted on 07/15/2013 7:45:34 AM PDT by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-81 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson