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The downing of Flight 007: 30 years later, a Cold War tragedy still seems surreal
CNN ^ | August 31, 2013 | Thom Patterson

Posted on 08/31/2013 6:24:05 AM PDT by cunning_fish

(CNN) -- The idea that Soviet fighter jets would shoot down a Boeing 747 airliner seems shockingly unbelievable. Two-hundred sixty-nine innocent people died in a largely forgotten Cold War attack that took place exactly 30 years ago this weekend.

On a sultry August night in 1983 at New York's JFK airport, Alice Ephraimson-Abt, a brilliant, 23-year-old, blue-eyed blonde, was about to board Korean Air Lines Flight 007 for Seoul, South Korea, halfway around the world. For one last time, she held her father, New Jersey businessman Hans Ephraimson-Abt, before saying goodbye. "There were hugs and I-love-yous," her father, now 91, told CNN.

Alice -- who was excited about heading Beijing to teach English and study -- could have been a diplomat -- a contributor to peace, her father said. "Her death was a great loss to her generation."

The ramifications of the shoot-down of Flight 007 reverberated far beyond the lives lost. It sparked global outrage, conspiracy theories and an activist movement that continues today. It also joined a list of disturbing developments that made 1983 one of the scariest years of the Cold War. Not since 1962's Cuban Missile Crisis had the world teetered so close to the unthinkable, according to declassified documents released last May.

It seemed like each month brought with it new and troubling headlines.

President Ronald Reagan, in March, said the Soviet Union amounted to an "evil empire." A few weeks later Washington announced it was working on a new space-based weapon. The press dubbed it "Star Wars."

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; Japan; Russia; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 911truthers; birchertinfoil; china; coldwar; flight007; iran; japan; kal; kal007; korea; randsconcerntrolls; reagan; russia; sovietterrorism; ussr; waronterror

1 posted on 08/31/2013 6:24:05 AM PDT by cunning_fish
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To: cunning_fish

Remember Congressman Larry McDonald, President of the John Birch Society, who was assassinated by the shooting down of this aircraft.


2 posted on 08/31/2013 6:30:05 AM PDT by peyton randolph (Tagline copyright in violation of Directive 10-289)
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To: cunning_fish
Lawrence Patton McDonald, M.D. (April 1, 1935 – September 1, 1983) was an American politician and a member of the United States House of Representatives, representing the seventh congressional district of Georgia as a Democrat.

He was a passenger on board Korean Air Lines Flight 007 when it was shot down by Soviet interceptors and presumed dead.

A conservative Democrat, he was active in numerous civic organizations and maintained a very conservative voting record in Congress.

He was known for his staunch opposition to communism and believed in long standing covert efforts by Trilateral Commission and other powerful US groups to bring about a socialism and world government.

He was the second president of the John Birch Society and also a cousin of General George S. Patton.
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3 posted on 08/31/2013 6:32:33 AM PDT by Repeal The 17th (We have met the enemy and he is us.)
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To: Repeal The 17th
A conservative Democrat, he was active in numerous civic organizations and maintained a very conservative voting record in Congress.

McDonald only ran as a Democrat because his district was traditionally Democrat and a Repbulcian would never have a chance.

From what I understand McDonald was planning to run for President. He had a chance in 84 and would have definitely blown "ex"-CIA commander Poppy Bush out of the water in 88.

The Globalist Banksters weren't going to let that happen.

4 posted on 08/31/2013 6:45:35 AM PDT by Count of Monte Fisto
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To: cunning_fish
...a Cold War tragedy...

A tragedy? That's like calling the attack on Pearl Harbor a tragedy!

5 posted on 08/31/2013 6:49:38 AM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: Count of Monte Fisto
"The Globalist Banksters weren't going to let that happen."

What? They couldn't arrange a car accident, or a "robbery gone wrong," so they had the soviets shoot down a freakin' airliner? Seriously?

6 posted on 08/31/2013 6:53:44 AM PDT by Flag_This (Term limits.)
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To: Repeal The 17th

I knew someone on that aircraft too, though I did not know it until a year after. It was someone I knew from church. She was going to Korea to see her parents, who were missionaries there.


7 posted on 08/31/2013 7:04:55 AM PDT by Mark17 (Yesterday I couldn't spell it. Today I are one, a creepy a$$ cracker)
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To: Flag_This

Hey, the globalist banksters not only were smart enough to wait until McDonald was on a plane, but they were sneaky enough to wait for one that strayed into Soviet airspace.


8 posted on 08/31/2013 7:05:04 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: peyton randolph

“Remember Congressman Larry McDonald, President of the John Birch Society, who was assassinated by the shooting down of this aircraft.”
*****

To me, the big untold story here was Cong Larry Patton McDonald....but...told @ certain places online...even today...!!!!!

Semper Blogging !!!!!
Dick G
*****


9 posted on 08/31/2013 7:06:25 AM PDT by gunnyg ("A Constitution changed from Freedom, can never be restored; Liberty, once lost, is lost forever...)
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To: 1rudeboy
"...they were sneaky enough to wait for one that strayed into Soviet airspace."

Who could have known one of the last surviving kamikaze pilots was working for Korean Airlines?

10 posted on 08/31/2013 7:09:27 AM PDT by Flag_This (Term limits.)
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To: cunning_fish
The first and only telegram I ever sent was addressed to President Reagan following this atrocity.
Of course it wasn't from him personally, but the reply, long since misplaced, shared my outrage and urged continuing resolve.

Yes, a telegram, it was that long ago.

I remember listening to his 'star wars' speech and having serious goosebumps and a big throat lump .. it sounded like the sincerest bid for meaningful peace in my lifetime.

11 posted on 08/31/2013 7:12:31 AM PDT by tomkat
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To: cunning_fish

It was a mass murder.
No way it was an accident.


12 posted on 08/31/2013 7:32:48 AM PDT by hoosierham (Freedom isn't free)
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To: Repeal The 17th

Wikipedia: “ Former president Richard Nixon was to have been seated next to Larry McDonald on KAL 007 but decided to not go, according to the New York Post and TASS”

Wiki also says Jesse Helms was on another flight trailing it.


13 posted on 08/31/2013 7:34:20 AM PDT by raccoonradio
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To: cunning_fish

I was working a midnight shift at the plant and had the radio on. About 1:00 the news reported an aircraft missing. I kept up with the news every hour all night as the story progressed.

I have read that when the MIG shot the aircraft out of the air, it took fifteen minutes for the plant to hit the ocean. Fifteen minutes of terror for the passengers.


14 posted on 08/31/2013 7:36:53 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: tomkat

Funny you mention telegrams as my father had a telex. When KAL007 was shot down he got the news “hot off the wire”. What is not funny is that he regually flew on KAL007 for business. It shook our whole family to the core.


15 posted on 08/31/2013 7:40:01 AM PDT by DocRock (All they that TAKE the sword shall perish with the sword. Matthew 26:52 Gun grabbers beware.)
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To: cunning_fish
Notice,

Delta flight 006 is called "flight six".

United Flight 084 is called "flight eighty-four".

It's only Korean 007 that we have been taught by our media to call "flight double O seven".

Could it be our media is trying to tell us something about their political opinions.

16 posted on 08/31/2013 7:57:05 AM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF (Because 2 terms with Jerry Brown as Governor was all I could take.)
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To: Flag_This
What? They couldn't arrange a car accident, or a "robbery gone wrong," so they had the soviets shoot down a freakin' airliner? Seriously

The Globalists would think of nothing of killing hundreds of people to get one man. They, through our government, are arming Al-CIA-duh to slaughter Christians and 100,000 civilians in Syria.

Senator Jesse Helms, Senator Steve Symms of Idaho and Representative Carroll Hubbard, Jr. of Kentucky, all the most anti-New World Order members of Congress, were going to Korea with McDonald but they ended up on separate flights at the last minute.

And they didn't just kill McDonald. You can bet they tortured the hell out of McDonald for information on his knowledge of anti-communist patriots throughout the world. Between Congress, the Birchers, the Western Goals Foundation, and other pro-liberty organizations McDonald was involved with he was privy to the equivalent of a clandestine intelligence network. An anti-Globalist network McDonald was going to use to get into the White House.

17 posted on 08/31/2013 8:03:16 AM PDT by Count of Monte Fisto
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To: InABunkerUnderSF

Or we’ve been programed by a 50 year old movie franchise to say a certain sequence of numbers a certain way.


18 posted on 08/31/2013 8:08:17 AM PDT by discostu (This is why we have ants!)
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To: Count of Monte Fisto
"Senator Jesse Helms, Senator Steve Symms of Idaho and Representative Carroll Hubbard, Jr. of Kentucky, all the most anti-New World Order members of Congress, were going to Korea with McDonald but they ended up on separate flights at the last minute."

If some shadow organization had the power to order the soviets to shoot down a civilian airliner, they also had they power to eliminate a handful of troublesome legislators through much easier methods. Helms, Symms and Hubbard were around for years after this incident.

19 posted on 08/31/2013 8:21:41 AM PDT by Flag_This (Term limits.)
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To: peyton randolph

So who did the klintons assassinate on TWA 800 ?


20 posted on 08/31/2013 8:22:26 AM PDT by The Sons of Liberty (For congress, it's not the principle of the thing, it's the money.)
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To: Count of Monte Fisto
And they didn't just kill McDonald. You can bet they tortured the hell out of McDonald for information on his knowledge of anti-communist patriots throughout the world.

They tortured him after he was dead? Or did they sneak him off the plane before they shot it down?

21 posted on 08/31/2013 8:29:58 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Science is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Flag_This
Those guys were just a bonus, part of the cost-benefit analysis of the op.

Maybe they got the message. Like when Bush family friend Hinkley took that shot at Reagan. It didn't kill him and it didn't have to. Reagan got the message.

22 posted on 08/31/2013 8:38:59 AM PDT by Count of Monte Fisto
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To: Toddsterpatriot
They tortured him after he was dead? Or did they sneak him off the plane before they shot it down?

The plane landed. The passengers were off loaded, never to be seen again.

23 posted on 08/31/2013 8:40:39 AM PDT by Count of Monte Fisto
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To: Count of Monte Fisto

They didn’t shoot it down?
Or did it take off again, empty, before being shot down?


24 posted on 08/31/2013 8:42:44 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Science is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: The Sons of Liberty

All of the passengers and crew.


25 posted on 08/31/2013 8:51:51 AM PDT by generally (Don't be stupid. We have politicians for that.)
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To: The Sons of Liberty
So who did the klintons assassinate on TWA 800 ?

It may be they just covered it up. The meme was that terrorists were what we now call bitter clingers, or potential "terrorists" if you work for DHS.

Having little problems like muslims trying to blow up the WTC, or maybe being involved with a bombing in Oklahoma, or shooting down aircraft just didn't fit the pattern--and would have caused the stovepipe of the Gorelick Memo to be hauled down--possibly exposing some of the Clinton's own nefarious deeds.

They couldn't go there.

Now, with the (dangnear) whole kit and caboodle composed of either fellow travelers or the hideously compromised, the enemies of this country have grown ever more brazen in their actions, secure in the idea that they have THE dirt on everyone who has any, the media in their pocket, and the ability to destroy careers at will if anyone gets out of line.

Which, incidentally, is why they hate the TEA Party. People without background data assembled already make them scurry for crap to sling--if they can find any.

The ranking 'pubbies are likely told to do all they can to beat such folk (unfunded, underfunded campaigns, etc.), or they might get taken down, too. My bet is McCain lost because Gov. Palin was dangerous to them all (even the 'pubbies attacked her or fed the data out to try to do so).

26 posted on 08/31/2013 8:53:02 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot

27 posted on 08/31/2013 8:55:51 AM PDT by cunning_fish
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To: Toddsterpatriot
They didn’t shoot it down?

In 1991, Senator Helms, as Minority Leader of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, issued a report that noted: "KAL 007 probably ditched successfully, there may have been survivors, the Soviets have been lying massively, and diplomatic efforts need to be made to return the possible survivors."

28 posted on 08/31/2013 9:01:26 AM PDT by Count of Monte Fisto
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To: cunning_fish

I was in the crowd demonstrating outside the Soviet Embassy. A BBC guy asked me what to do next, and I told him “Embargo them right down to their last drop of Pepsi Cola.” I’m told the Beeb used that.


29 posted on 08/31/2013 9:04:43 AM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: cunning_fish

We still need the Strategic Defense Initiative.


30 posted on 08/31/2013 9:05:44 AM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: peyton randolph

Larry McDonald was one of the greatest Members of Congress of our time. We remember him.

Now, there is a Democrat I could have voted for!


31 posted on 08/31/2013 9:06:28 AM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: Flag_This

That way it couldn’t be pinned as a murder of McDonald. It was just a problem with a flight on which Rep. McDonald happened to be flying. These guys are shrewd — cold-blooded and completely amoral, but shrewd.

Look at all the theories advanced in the wake of Andrew Breitbart’s untimely death.


32 posted on 08/31/2013 9:08:44 AM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: raccoonradio

They were on the original passenger list, however, as (from what I remember) was Rep. Phil Crane. The people who brought it down thought they had a three-fer.


33 posted on 08/31/2013 9:10:37 AM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: Smokin' Joe
Having little problems like muslims trying to blow up the WTC, or maybe being involved with a bombing in Oklahoma

Do you remember Jose Padilla, the Hispanic Islamist terrorist? Go back and look at the sketches of "John Doe #2", the person allegedly with McVeigh when he bombed the Murrah Building. The look almost exactly like the sketch of Padilla.

Could that be why the "authorities" finally tried to tell us that John Doe #2 didn't exist? Did they know who he was?

34 posted on 08/31/2013 9:15:06 AM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: TBP

I was in Crypto school in San Angelo (after studying Russian) slated to go to Alaska when it happened. The Russians said it was supposed to be the RC-135 (the plane we would be flying in in a few short months) they shot down, it got our attention.


35 posted on 08/31/2013 10:16:40 AM PDT by tenger (It's a good thing we don't get all the government we pay for. -Will Rogers)
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To: TBP
Padilla was a dead ringer for the sketch of John Doe number 2. The real question is if he was an agent provacateur or an operator, and if an operator, who was he operating for?

Clinton about outran his shadow to be apologizing to CAIR the same morning while the EMS and Fire crews were being evacuated form the building because of other UXO. Far too many rats in the story (those are just a couple), including the timing--which could not have been worse for the Patriot movement nor those seeking repeal of the AWB.

Hard to define it, but like the fire at Waco, it just felt WRONG.

36 posted on 08/31/2013 12:29:44 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: tenger

>>>I was in Crypto school in San Angelo (after studying Russian) slated to go to Alaska when it happened. The Russians said it was supposed to be the RC-135 (the plane we would be flying in in a few short months) they shot down, it got our attention.<<<

Yes, I’ve seen a documentary and Russians said they have detected a Cobra Ball electronic signature just prior to event and also two similar sized aircraft has crossed routes on their radar. They were sure the one entered their airspace was RC-135.

1983 was a tough time, probably a peak of the Cold War. Just weeks before incident USN carriers held drills with A-7s over a disputed Soviet-Japanese islands in that same area and Soviet commander was sacked for failure to react properly.

KAL007 was actually intercepted twice, first time over Kamchatka by a pack of 6 Mig-23s who tried to contact it and flew away after it failed to react and second time close to Sakhalin when it has violated Soviet airspace for a second time.

AFAIK a pilot has approached from the rear, the weather wasn’t particularly nice and a B-747 was looking exactly like a Cobra Ball from that position.


37 posted on 08/31/2013 8:04:27 PM PDT by cunning_fish
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