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New Novel 'Terrifies' Readers, Suggests 'President Palin' Could've Turned us Into Christian Nation
Townhall ^ | September 1, 2013 | Cortney O'Brien

Posted on 09/01/2013 9:48:36 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

“They said what they would do, and we did not listen. Then they did what they said they would do.”

Sounds frightening, doesn’t it? Who could “they” be? A 1984-like government? A terrorist organization? An alien force? Well, according to the author who wrote those words, the “they” are big bad Christians.

Christian Nation by Frederic C. Rich is a new novel which, according to some reviewers, is their worst nightmare, for it details a country in which Christian values are strictly obeyed.

From GoodReads.com,

“They said what they would do, and we did not listen. Then they did what they said they would do.”

So ends the first chapter of this brilliantly readable counterfactual novel, reminding us that America’s Christian fundamentalists have been consistently clear about their vision for a “Christian Nation” and dead serious about acquiring the political power to achieve it. When President McCain dies and Sarah Palin becomes president, the reader, along with the nation, stumbles down a terrifyingly credible path toward theocracy, realizing too late that the Christian right meant precisely what it said.

Upon further reading, one discovers Palin and her Christian force have imposed an authoritarian rule called “The Blessing” upon their subjects, which is enforced by the “Purity Web.”

Here’s some positive feedback from the Ordinary Reader Review section on ReadChristianNation.com:

“A genuinely frightening look at a possible future.” -- Goodreads, July 7

“It’s captivating, realistic, and rather terrifying.” -- Goodreads, June 1

“Very chilling.” -- Goodreads, July 8

I’m sorry, but what exactly is “frightening,” “terrifying,” and “chilling” about praying, going to church, and making sure your kids don’t stumble upon X-rated websites?

I tend to like Betsy Woodruff’s review much better. In a piece for National Review Online, she tears apart this hilariously over-the-top novel page-by-page.

Come for the groundbreaking Evangelical-Christians-are-like-Nazis rhetoric, stay for the mind-numbing dialogue...Rich’s novel is essentially what Atlas Shrugged would have been if it had been conceived by a Freedom from Religion Foundation focus group and edited by Howard Dean.

I hate to tell the author of this book and his frightened readers, but our Christian founding fathers’ ideal of America wasn’t very far off from Rich’s “scary” plot. As most of them were men of God, they most likely knew a country centered on Jesus was the best foundation. Liberals may fear a nation in which a bold conservative woman takes the reigns, but for us conservatives, who fear an overbearing federal government, family values being placed on the back burner and an increased dependency on Uncle Sam -- our nightmare is all too real.

Instead of reading the book, which seems like it would be headache-inducing, watch the hysterical trailer instead:

(VIDEO-AT-LINK)


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: christianity; christiannation; christians; palin; theocracy
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1 posted on 09/01/2013 9:48:36 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Palin’s Christmas book is coming out, so you’re going to see more of these articles attacking her.


2 posted on 09/01/2013 9:55:15 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Governor Sarah Heath Palin for President of the United States in 2016)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I’m not a big fan of Palin, but it is startling to watch people trash her based on the Christian threat she might be, and then note them missing the fact that Obama is doing his best to Islamicize the U. S., and they’re not worried about that at all.


3 posted on 09/01/2013 10:02:50 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (This post coming to you today, from behind the Camelskin Curtain. Not the Iron or Bamboo Curtain...)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Brought to you by the very same people who declare that “abortion is sacred ground” and quite literally pray to God to “protect a woman’s right to choose”.


4 posted on 09/01/2013 10:03:33 AM PDT by null and void (I'm betting on an Obama Trifecta: A Nobel Peace Prize, an Impeachment, AND a War Crimes Trial...)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Come for the groundbreaking Evangelical-Christians-are-like-Nazis rhetoric...

Psychological project by the left, again. It is the godless who desire a theocracy, absurd as the notion is.

After all, it is those "evil" Christians who teach things like Thou shall not lie, steal or kill. Oh the horror!

5 posted on 09/01/2013 10:03:46 AM PDT by VRW Conspirator (Producing Talk Show Prep since 1998.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

As opposed to Zero, attempting to turn our country into muslim nation.

I think even your most hard core atheist would not prefer to live as an Islamist.


6 posted on 09/01/2013 10:05:45 AM PDT by PoloSec ( Believe the Gospel: how that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again)
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To: DoughtyOne

I am just curious, what don’t you like about her?


7 posted on 09/01/2013 10:07:26 AM PDT by svcw (Stand or die)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Sure beats turning US into the Ummah.


8 posted on 09/01/2013 10:08:45 AM PDT by bluetick (If you're going to err, err on the side of liberty.)
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To: DoughtyOne

“then note them missing the fact that Obama is doing his best to Islamicize the U. S., and they’re not worried about that at all.”

Just the other day I had someone turn on me fang and claw for saying that Obama would like to take my guns away. The notion was “paranoid” and “ridiculous.”


9 posted on 09/01/2013 10:11:45 AM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: svcw

One of the most strident things I don’t care for, is her saying one thing, and then doing another.

She claims to be a Conservative, then backs McCain to be re-elected, and champions him to the Tea Party as ‘one of them’. LOL He thinks they’re terrorists.

She just gave him props again a few weeks ago. What the heck?

She claims not to support an amnesty for illegal immigrants, then supports them registering so they can stay here, work, and eventually become citizens.

She gives good sound-bytes. She fires up the troops. I don’t have the slightest confidence in her following through with truly Conservative policies once in office.

I’ve played that game to many times, hoping beyond hope my gut instincts would be wrong as I voted for someone, and then watched as my gut instincts were proven precisely accurate.


10 posted on 09/01/2013 10:12:40 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (This post coming to you today, from behind the Camelskin Curtain. Not the Iron or Bamboo Curtain...)
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To: dsc

I hear ya. I have family members who listen but scoff. They don’t even object to what I say anymore. They just write my thoughts off.

People are sleep walking into a buzz saw. There’s no other way to put it.


11 posted on 09/01/2013 10:14:56 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (This post coming to you today, from behind the Camelskin Curtain. Not the Iron or Bamboo Curtain...)
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To: DoughtyOne

Amen!


12 posted on 09/01/2013 10:15:50 AM PDT by sport
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To: sport

Thanks Sport. Honestly, it gives me no joy to see it this way. I do think it is the sad reality.


13 posted on 09/01/2013 10:19:12 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (This post coming to you today, from behind the Camelskin Curtain. Not the Iron or Bamboo Curtain...)
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To: sport

Sport, I responded thinking you had addressed my post ten. Sorry about that.

Yes, it’s sad to see friends and family members dismiss things that are a real danger to our nation.

About all you can do is allow them to come to the conclusion on their own. One day, like it or not, they will. One would hope it was before they were in bondage, but it’s their choice.


14 posted on 09/01/2013 10:21:19 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (This post coming to you today, from behind the Camelskin Curtain. Not the Iron or Bamboo Curtain...)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

First of all, I doubt most Christians would support “forcing” any type religion on the people.

Second, these same people afraid of Christians best be afraid of a muslim in the white house who supports Sharia Law.


15 posted on 09/01/2013 10:22:12 AM PDT by VerySadAmerican (When you vote for evil because you can't see evil, you ARE evil.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The country’s afraid of Palin, but they elected a Marxist goof who has nothing but leftist friends. Go figure.


16 posted on 09/01/2013 10:24:36 AM PDT by popdonnelly (The right to self-defense is older than the Constitution.)
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To: DoughtyOne

Hey, Doughty.

Ultimately it’s a choice of what spirit folks are wanting to get invested in now. God, or a devil that (with his fellow rebel angels, the demons) does his level best to hide and obfuscate everything good about God that he can as folks embrace him. One of his craftier lies is that he’s not even there at all, that it is the people in his embrace who are doing everything by themselves. He does this because he wants to get creds from God for the damage he did even more than he wants to get creds from people. (Hell is a weird place. I think the spirits there kind of like it in spite of plenteous misery. They’d sooner be gleeful in hate than give up the game to God.)

Now, a concerted effort, should it begin, to plow past the lies and reach God again WILL be rewarded by God. I’m trying to do my little part to be a spark of such a thing.

Back to the devil’s game, of course this devil will depict those “horrible Christians” as having nothing to offer but a gospel of “no.” And in some cases this devil has some credibility because he has snookered weak Christians to act that way. He trumpets that they will try to slam you in jail for having an abortion or fornicating, but oh no let’s never let out the secret how the positive gospel promise of how exalting God in your body WILL give you a whole new view on yourself which inherently resists the sins as a side effect without that even being your main concern! I.e. the gospel of “yes.”

Well I’ve been all over this board day and night to let this and parallel secrets out. Ask God in love, according to the gospel promise, to be exalted in (whatever area of your life is seeing problems with yielding to sin) and you will see miracles as you keep patiently pressing on. Many people don’t want to think the gospel is far, far more powerful than evil “spells,” the first of which was cast in the garden when the serpent said go ahead, eat that fruit of the (purportedly independent, but actually devil dependent) knowledge of good and evil. Because these people see the gospel as a “thought experiment” in their head, rather than the promise of a God that boldly states He can do exceedingly abundantly above all that you can ask or think! (Which in part is true because sin has dumbed your mind down to the point of forgetting God’s vastly superior power.)

Well that’s my gospel soap box. Sarah Palin? She might be an EXCELLENT president. Bringing the power of the Lord in there, she wouldn’t even need to “establish a state religion” in order to clear a whole lot of demons out of Washington, DC. Who is bigger, folks? Satan? or God? The question is frantically comical. The problem, folks, is with our exercise of faith.


17 posted on 09/01/2013 10:24:37 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: DoughtyOne

the left has always been against whatever you would find in stereotypical 1950s America

family
religion
education
personal responsibility
wealth
capitalism
strong America

they are against everything in that list. you may balk at ‘education’ as they claim they’re for it... then i’d remind you that 80% of NYC graduates are illiterate while being awash in liberal ‘education’. simply put, the libs want big govt... and uneducated people need big govt assistance, so they vote for them. evil cycle. nothing new.

Sarah exemplifies 1950s America. therefore, they must attack. it’s engrained in their ideology


18 posted on 09/01/2013 10:24:49 AM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: VerySadAmerican

A genuine gospel does not need any of the panoply of the world to shore it up. A genuine gospel will sell itself.


19 posted on 09/01/2013 10:25:16 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: dsc

When they pulll out their fangs and claws you should say “Would you like to try to take away my guns?” Then point your finger at them and say “Even my imaginary gun?”


20 posted on 09/01/2013 10:25:25 AM PDT by VerySadAmerican (When you vote for evil because you can't see evil, you ARE evil.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The left’s attacks on Christians has always had a strain of paranoia in them.


21 posted on 09/01/2013 10:29:42 AM PDT by AtlasStalled
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Instead of reading the book, which seems like it would be headache-inducing, watch the hysterical trailer instead:

It really does show one exactly the mindset of the book.

Clips of Nazi Germany blinking in and out, the newspaper headline "McCain dies under mysterious circumstance," the pee-cee stereotypes...

It is projection in its classic form.

They really ARE nuts.

.

22 posted on 09/01/2013 10:30:50 AM PDT by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I’m gonna take a wild guess here that this POS book will not hit the top million sellers on Amazon.


23 posted on 09/01/2013 10:31:10 AM PDT by shove_it (long ago Orwell and Rand warned us about 0bama's America)
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To: VerySadAmerican; dsc
When they pull out their fangs and claws you should say “Would you like to try to take away my guns?” Then point your finger at them and say “Even my imaginary gun?”

NICE!

Oy'm gonna do that, Oy am.

24 posted on 09/01/2013 10:32:56 AM PDT by null and void (I'm betting on an Obama Trifecta: A Nobel Peace Prize, an Impeachment, AND a War Crimes Trial...)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
“They said what they would do, and we did not listen. Then they did what they said they would do.”

Exactly what could be said about Obama.

The difference being that is the reality, while this author's fantasy is based upon zero.

25 posted on 09/01/2013 10:33:44 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This is nothing but an example of the Left’s inbred insanity.

These same idiots completely ignore the Islamic Titanic that’ll be heading their way.


26 posted on 09/01/2013 10:37:19 AM PDT by headstamp 2 (What would Scooby do?)
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To: headstamp 2

My guess if it came to such a juncture? They’d embrace Islam! It’s vintage Satan.


27 posted on 09/01/2013 10:39:29 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: DoughtyOne

Thanks for that post. I don’t like the support for McLame, but perhaps it is out of loyalty. It’s a hard call for where to draw the line. Zippy throws his supporters under the bus at the drop of a hat, which although I’m glad to see them under the bus, gives me pause because I question the morals of a man who seems to have no ties or loyalty to anyone. He strikes me as the sort who would (and did) off his own grandmother for personal gain.

I like Palin for many reasons.

1. She supports many, many, many conservative views.
2. She energizes the base.
3. She annoys the liberals. (It’s not that I enjoy annoying anyone, it’s just that I’m tired of running candidates that first get the liberal stamp of approval like McLame.)
4. She is NOT a lawyer.
5. She has (or at least seems to have) a great deal of common sense.

I don’t as yet have a preference for President in 2016, but if Palin were running she’d definitely have my vote.


28 posted on 09/01/2013 10:39:50 AM PDT by generally (Don't be stupid. We have politicians for that.)
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To: generally

Hey General, I think Sarah had a whole lot of mindshare but not a whole lot of overt support.

That’s in my guts as a sense and my guts have been wrong before.

But you know what wouldn’t hurt? An FR-wide letter writing campaign to Sarah! Encourage her to run! This doesn’t mean “dissing” other possible candidates. I think the Lord, working through her, could elevate the process. And that trial she had in Alaska which ended up with her quitting? Don’t forget that it’s not HER she is resting on. It is the Lord. Sometimes the Lord sets up lessons of failing in order to teach us to look to Him harder for lessons of succeeding. That failure might be the crux of a future success because it is the Lord working and not Sarah.


29 posted on 09/01/2013 10:43:15 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

So what?!?!?!?

I have lived to see the Democratic Party’s designs from the days of LBJ’s “Great Society”, destroy the country, establish a permanent self-enslaved inner city-class of folks, and Freedom eroded.

I have lived to see the Communists living, since the extinction of the law, in the 1950’s, and all the damage that action has caused.

I have seen the populace of this country, turn from giving a crap about what and where this country is going, to giving a crap and calling 911, when the wrong kind of food ends up in the take-out food bag.

Should an internal conflict arise, the only outcome that would work would be one where 76% of the ENTIRE would be KIA/MIA, just to get a 50-50 chance that thinking, intelligent, true Americans would be the ones surviving!

I may “be old”, as that Jeanette said, but I know how many things that woman ain’t gonna know how to do with, or without, whenh that happens!!!


30 posted on 09/01/2013 10:44:07 AM PDT by Terry L Smith
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To: Terry L Smith

And it’s all devil driven.

Now Satan does not want me to tell you this secret, but I will.

God is bigger than Satan.

Exalt God with intensity and purpose, even through a small but determined minority, and wonders will begin.


31 posted on 09/01/2013 10:46:59 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Hey, Doughty.

Ultimately it’s a choice of what spirit folks are wanting to get invested in now. God, or a devil that (with his fellow rebel angels, the demons) does his level best to hide and obfuscate everything good about God that he can as folks embrace him. One of his craftier lies is that he’s not even there at all, that it is the people in his embrace who are doing everything by themselves. He does this because he wants to get creds from God for the damage he did even more than he wants to get creds from people. (Hell is a weird place. I think the spirits there kind of like it in spite of plenteous misery. They’d sooner be gleeful in hate than give up the game to God.)  I'm pretty much in agreement with this, or at the very least understand where you're headed with it to the degree I don't object.

Now, a concerted effort, should it begin, to plow past the lies and reach God again WILL be rewarded by God. I’m trying to do my little part to be a spark of such a thing.  And I think that is an admirable goal.  I can buy into that, but the ultimate question for me, is how much more screwing of our nation from our own side ot the isle are we willing to accept?  I've had it with that.  I'm not supporting it any longer.  I'll expand on this further down.

Back to the devil’s game, of course this devil will depict those “horrible Christians” as having nothing to offer but a gospel of “no.” And in some cases this devil has some credibility because he has snookered weak Christians to act that way. He trumpets that they will try to slam you in jail for having an abortion or fornicating, but oh no let’s never let out the secret how the positive gospel promise of how exalting God in your body WILL give you a whole new view on yourself which inherently resists the sins as a side effect without that even being your main concern! I.e. the gospel of “yes.”  I agree with where you are headed her also.

Well I’ve been all over this board day and night to let this and parallel secrets out. Ask God in love, according to the gospel promise, to be exalted in (whatever area of your life is seeing problems with yielding to sin) and you will see miracles as you keep patiently pressing on. Many people don’t want to think the gospel is far, far more powerful than evil “spells,” the first of which was cast in the garden when the serpent said go ahead, eat that fruit of the (purportedly independent, but actually devil dependent) knowledge of good and evil. Because these people see the gospel as a “thought experiment” in their head, rather than the promise of a God that boldly states He can do exceedingly abundantly above all that you can ask or think! (Which in part is true because sin has dumbed your mind down to the point of forgetting God’s vastly superior power.)  I agree with this as well.

Well that’s my gospel soap box. Sarah Palin? She might be an EXCELLENT president. Bringing the power of the Lord in there, she wouldn’t even need to “establish a state religion” in order to clear a whole lot of demons out of Washington, DC. Who is bigger, folks? Satan? or God? The question is frantically comical. The problem, folks, is with our exercise of faith.
  I know you're heart is in the right place, and I salute that.  What I can't salute is the reality that the winding down of our nation has taken place under both Democrat and Republican administrations.  If we respect God, truly respect Him, we have to understand our duty to return this nation to one that respects and fears (as a judge) Him.

I cannot back someone because they make good sound-bytes.  I cannot back them because they claim and seem to live a fairly religious live.  I cannot back them because someone else is worse.

If a person tells me up front they plan to in one moment to legalize every illegal immigrant on our soil, I have to take them at their word.  And knowing that perhaps 75% of those people will vote for Satan's party (the Democrat Party), I have to admit to myself that anyone who does this is not truly on God's side.

If Palin were to gain power and institute her stated plans concerning illegal immigrants, this once God-fearing nation would be done for.

We must let go of infatuation, whether political, physical, religious or of any other derivation.  We dismiss the folks we sadly cannot support, and pick the person who truly deserves our support based on all aspects of their beliefs and announced intents.


The days of settling are over.  We're not picking Church treasurer here.  We're picking the leader of the free world.  If we pick a person who will turn this nation over the the Democrats in perpetuity, I don't care how well meaning they are, it is we who will bear utlimate responsibility.

I owe God and this nation more than that.  I owe it to my family, and my posterity, and the future citizens of this great nation.  I can't be great again, but the choices will be hard.  We must be up to the task.

Above all else, we must admit the farilty of our own desires, and think this one through very carefully.

I like a lot of people.  I would not vote them into an office like this.



32 posted on 09/01/2013 10:47:44 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (This post coming to you today, from behind the Camelskin Curtain. Not the Iron or Bamboo Curtain...)
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To: sten
Sten, I agree with your thoughts there. Ultimately this is the response I would reference you too. It's one I just made to another poster, and it pretty much spells out my take on things.

LINK

33 posted on 09/01/2013 10:49:35 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (This post coming to you today, from behind the Camelskin Curtain. Not the Iron or Bamboo Curtain...)
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To: DoughtyOne

No, Doughty. You are dumbing the battle down to mere men’s politics. I want to elevate it to God’s wisdom.

IF it is truly God who is saying “YES, let those immigrants in” then God can be trusted to be wise. Now one Christian tenet is that wisdom is found in a multitude of wise counselors. Sarah wouldn’t buck a consensus that no this is a bad idea, if it truly existed. She is not bull headed like so many of our conventional politicians.

It would be perfectly plausible to me if God did call for this, because God would have other pieces to move into the picture. God could turn Hispanics from enemies to friends in virtually nothing flat.

Don’t get all potpourri-picky on me here. Let’s have the faith to put God first, and Sarah would be only one piece in the puzzle but an important piece.


34 posted on 09/01/2013 10:52:30 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
A 1984-like government?

It's a pity that the real 1984 government isn't in place now - Reagan was president and while the Soviet Union was still standing, the US government was in far better shape.

As for Orwell's 1984, the NSA and DHS are getting us frighteningly close to that version of government and beyond.
35 posted on 09/01/2013 10:54:59 AM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I post on several liberal website sites...many times I run into these wackos that think there is a dark secret conspiracy to force this country into a theocracy...

It's hard not to mock them for their stupidity and level of gullibility...

Maybe .001 % of 1 % of christians think a USA imposed theocracy is a good idea...the whole group will fit in a phone booth

I always ask them exactly HOW will that be accomplished ?

They have zero political power, no mainline church supports such an idea, the people who vote certainly don't want one...

But in the same breath...the idea of imposed Shari law is Ok, because it would mean diversity...

Liberalism truly is a mental disorder

36 posted on 09/01/2013 10:55:12 AM PDT by Popman (PTRD (Post Traumatic Racism Disorder)....coming to a court room soon....)
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To: generally

If she runs and wins, the illegal immigrants will be legalized.

Game, set, match...

Your vote will NEVER count again.

I don’t know about you, but I could never endorse a man of the likes of McCain. Nothing he could do would buy my unswerving loyalty.

In your heart you realize the significance of that act.


37 posted on 09/01/2013 10:57:54 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (This post coming to you today, from behind the Camelskin Curtain. Not the Iron or Bamboo Curtain...)
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To: generally

You’re joking right? It amazes me how you Palin groupies simply gloss over the fact that she campaigned for, endorsed and flew to Arizona to support McCain. I mean you guys passionately hate McCain but magically dismiss Palin’s endorsement of him over a Tea Party candidate. I don’t get it.


38 posted on 09/01/2013 11:00:22 AM PDT by blaquebyrd
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To: DoughtyOne

Oh blues, blues, blues.

Is the joy of the Lord smaller than our conventional wisdom?

If she believes in easing Hispanic immigration and even forgiveness, and the Lord is backing her, then give her a chance to be the forthtelling prophet of how it would be a boon and not a bane in God’s plan. I very clearly see the concern, that they will simply dumb down and become Democrats. God says, quite possibly, wait a minute folks. Satan’s doing that. I’m a tad bigger than Satan. Give me a chance I might lick that dirty dog for you.

YMMV but God’s mileage never does.


39 posted on 09/01/2013 11:02:17 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Instead of reading the book, which seems like it would be headache-inducing, watch the hysterical trailer instead:

Watched it....these people have serious mental issues...

40 posted on 09/01/2013 11:02:23 AM PDT by Popman (PTRD (Post Traumatic Racism Disorder)....coming to a court room soon....)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Who wrote the Foreword? Matt Damon?


41 posted on 09/01/2013 11:19:55 AM PDT by kanawa
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To: HiTech RedNeck
No, Doughty. You are dumbing the battle down to mere men’s politics. I want to elevate it to God’s wisdom.  HiTech RedNeck, I like you so this isn't intended to be a dig at you.  I'm simply responding to the points you made, and trying to explain that while I think they are well intend thoughts, I still wind up thinking they are somewhat misguided.  I'm certainly no paragon of virtue, so I'm not saying I have to be right here.  I'm simply saying how I see it.

I do not see the choice to be one of Sarah Palin or evil.  I do not see this as support for God or support for Satan.  There are other Christians out there.  I would prefer another.


IF it is truly God who is saying “YES, let those immigrants in” then God can be trusted to be wise.  Don't you think it's just a tad presumptious to think that because Sarah Palin suggested it, it has to be God's will?  And yet this is the level of thinking that has swarmed in behind Sarah.  It's is alarming.  It exemplifies a belief that Palin is now God's arbiter of what is right or wrong today.  I don't even think Sarah believes that to be true.  I certainly don't.  I would certainly hope she doesn't.

Now one Christian tenet is that wisdom is found in a multitude of wise counselors. Sarah wouldn’t buck a consensus that no this is a bad idea, if it truly existed. She is not bull headed like so many of our conventional politicians.  True leaders do buck conventional wisdom, so I am not trying to trash Palin for her views based on popularity or lack there-of.  IMO< she should be standing up and explaining why it is wrong to accept tens of millions of people who came here against the laws of our nation.  It is wrong for them to be able to stay here and benefit from the desprespect and usery that their actions exemplied.  I simply assess her views on illegal immigrants and the fix to be a fatal blow to our nation.  God cannot help us if we refuse to help ourselves.  If she does legalize 20 to 35 million illegal immigrants, they get citizenship and the normal chain immigration follows, we're talking about between 100 and 150 million new foreign national citizens in under 20 years.  I don't think that is God's will at all.

It would be perfectly plausible to me if God did call for this, because God would have other pieces to move into the picture. God could turn Hispanics from enemies to friends in virtually nothing flat.  All this is predicated on Sarah Palin having announced her plan, and if she said it, it has to be God's will.  I don't know where to begin to refute that, it evidences such flawed logic in my opinion.  Please explain to me how you know it is God's will to legalize between 20 and 35 million illegal immigrants who are here.  Is it your thought he thinks our immigration laws are evil?  Really?

Don’t get all potpourri-picky on me here. Let’s have the faith to put God first, and Sarah would be only one piece in the puzzle but an important piece.
Sadly, God is not first in your thoughts here.  And sadly, you can't see it.  You have intimated that if Sarah said it, it has to be God's will.  I can't buy off on that.


42 posted on 09/01/2013 11:21:42 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (This post coming to you today, from behind the Camelskin Curtain. Not the Iron or Bamboo Curtain...)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

I’ve always liked Sarah and I would vote for her if she became the party’s nominee. But she isn’t the only good Christian conservative out there. Ted Cruz is my preference. He’s a born-again Christian, and would surely bring as much of God’s blessing to the White House as Sarah would.


43 posted on 09/01/2013 11:26:01 AM PDT by CatherineofAragon (Support Christian white males----the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Not going to encourage them by buying it. When it is going for .99 or offered free to promote his next book, maybe I’ll read it.


44 posted on 09/01/2013 11:29:25 AM PDT by reformedliberal
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To: DoughtyOne

I am suggesting it COULD be.

That’s where the multitude of counselors comes in to clarify such difficult, nonintuitive matters. Sarah has worked always by getting consensus, far as I have been aware.

I CAN tell you that the “well, I will NEVER vote for such and such because they are calling for something that isn’t in the Worldly Conservative Plan” mantra is what threw a half a dozen flawed but still worthier men to the wayside last year for Mitt Romney. I suggest God wants folks like you to take a lesson from this.


45 posted on 09/01/2013 11:30:49 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The libs have been screaming about a ‘theocracy’ since the Moral Majority was a force in politics. They don’t see that what THEY prefer is a ‘theocracy’ of a different sort; a secular one, that forces religion OUT of the public square, in direct violation of the Constitution.


46 posted on 09/01/2013 11:37:36 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: DoughtyOne
IMO she should be standing up and explaining why it is wrong to accept tens of millions of people who came here against the laws of our nation.

This is a perfectly reasonable question to ask, but do not be surprised if the answer is squarely within a Christian framework. If God can forgive you, and God can forgive me, then God can forgive them. The key question is what their future will be. I would not be surprised to see a "nuanced" solution that would, wisely and deftly, shunt the bums back to Mexico, while keeping the industrious folks.

47 posted on 09/01/2013 11:44:10 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Oh blues, blues, blues.  Do you realize what you are doing here?  You don't like the message, so you completely dismiss it.  I explain the danger.  You laugh it off.  Why are you doing that?  It makes it impossible to reason with you.  You want Sarah Palin, so I am supposed to suspend reality to buy into what you are selling.  I'm not going to suspend reality to back your play on this. 

Is the joy of the Lord smaller than our conventional wisdom?  Sarah Palin is not God.  She is not His announced voice on matters on this planet.  All of a sudden, if I don't back Sarah Palin, I am against God.  That's laughable.

If she believes in easing Hispanic immigration and even forgiveness, and the Lord is backing her, then give her a chance to be the forthtelling prophet of how it would be a boon and not a bane in God’s plan.  This exhibits thinking that is completely detatched from reality.  There's no valid basis for you to have come to the conclusions you have here.  How did easing of Hispanic immigration suddenly become God's will?  Failing that, how is it that you are assured God is backing Palin, if she is doing something that is not His will?  I'm supposed to see her as a forthtelling prophet now?  I am supposed to buy off on human frailty, and know it is God's plan being laid out?  How do you know whose plan it is?  If it isn't God's plan, whose plan is it?  You seem to be jumping to some incredible conclusions here, and I don't see the validity of it.

I very clearly see the concern, that they will simply dumb down and become Democrats. God says, quite possibly, wait a minute folks. Satan’s doing that. I’m a tad bigger than Satan. Give me a chance I might lick that dirty dog for you.  Where are you getting this?  I'm dumbfounded to see any rational basis for what you have bought into here.  God says what?  Where did you see what God said?  Since when is it wrong to enforce the laws of our nation, that are reasonable and have been on the books for many decades, in a substantive manner?  There are reasons for those laws.  They are there because of the very problems we face today.  What part of that reality should now be ignored, to do what you seem to be advocating because Sarah Palin said so?

YMMV but God’s mileage never does.  I am not presumptious enough to credit to God things that are of man's derivation.  I have based my belief on the core principle that it is reasoned to come up with laws that govern legal access to our nation.  It is reasoned to enforce those laws.  And it is unreasoned to think that the mere breaking of laws by many people, somehow excuses them from the penalties that have been written into our immigration laws.


It is extremely disrepsectful of God, to put our desires out there as if they are His will, when we have no basis whatsoever for making that claim.

I don't happen to believe that God thinks we are sinful if we wish to see our nation cease to be abused by a multitude of foreign nationals.  And rewarding law-breaking has never been an accepted form of discourage a repeat.


48 posted on 09/01/2013 11:44:36 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (This post coming to you today, from behind the Camelskin Curtain. Not the Iron or Bamboo Curtain...)
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To: blaquebyrd
It amazes me how you Palin groupies simply gloss over the fact that she campaigned for, endorsed and flew to Arizona to support McCain. I mean you guys passionately hate McCain but magically dismiss Palin’s endorsement of him over a Tea Party candidate. I don’t get it.

That 'Tea Party'candidate she rejected in favor of McCain publicly stated that he held no ill feelings for Sarah, because he knew why she endorsed McCain. She would have been a real ingrate NOT to have endorsed the man who brought her to the national stage.

If the opponent was OK with it, why shouldn't everyone else be?

49 posted on 09/01/2013 11:45:41 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: DoughtyOne

Note that you are now taking a solid absolute position that this CANNOT be God’s will. As well as caricaturing my position as one saying it MUST be God’s will. Both distortions are Satanic, sir!

I’m saying give holy consideration a chance.


50 posted on 09/01/2013 11:47:26 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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