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US study finds link between gun ownership and homicide
AFP News ^ | September 13, 2013

Posted on 09/12/2013 7:36:42 PM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer

Researchers in the United States claim to have established a convincing statistical link between gun ownership and homicide, according to a new study.

The study, which appears in the American Journal of Public Health, challenges the National Rifle Association's claim that increased gun ownership does not lead to higher levels of gun violence.

In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the study used a proxy variable -- the percentage of a state's suicides committed with a firearm -- that has been validated in previous research.

The study, led by Boston University community health sciences professor Michael Siegel, is the first of its kind since the December 2012 mass shooting of 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.

"In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown ... many states are considering legislation to control firearm-related deaths," said Siegel in a statement.

(Excerpt) Read more at france24.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: ajph; banglist; guncontrol; liberalagenda; msm; nra; secondamendment
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1 posted on 09/12/2013 7:36:42 PM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Any correlation between legal gun ownership and homicide?
2 posted on 09/12/2013 7:38:57 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: muir_redwoods

One has t5o remember who’s side the media is on....and take a grain of salt.


3 posted on 09/12/2013 7:39:57 PM PDT by Halgr (Once a Marine, always a Marine - Semper Fi)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the study used a proxy variable -- the percentage of a state's suicides committed with a firearm -- that has been validated in previous research.

Metadata.

Garbage in, garbage out.

Most scientific papers are probably wrong

Why Most Published Research Findings Are False

4 posted on 09/12/2013 7:40:20 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (When your policy is to rob Peter to pay Paul, you can count on enthusiastic support from Paul.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the study used a proxy variable — the percentage of a state’s suicides committed with a firearm — that has been validated in previous research

Huh ???

Did they just say they made this up and say their method has been used before and then not show where their method was used before?


5 posted on 09/12/2013 7:40:24 PM PDT by barmag25
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To: Oldeconomybuyer; All
"US study finds link between
gun ownership and homicide"


6 posted on 09/12/2013 7:40:26 PM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: muir_redwoods

Oh baloney.

There is no correlation between the ownership of firearms, and anything.

Except maybe, a LOWER violence rate.

This is total bunk.


7 posted on 09/12/2013 7:41:10 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

The murderous thugs in Chicago are homicidal “gun owners”.

They just don’t own the guns LEGALLY!!!!


8 posted on 09/12/2013 7:41:23 PM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Gun owner -> more likely to use gun for personal defense -> more justified homicides.

The link is right there.

9 posted on 09/12/2013 7:41:42 PM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

All of the guns that I once owned (tragic boating accident) never shot, let alone, killed any human being.


10 posted on 09/12/2013 7:42:04 PM PDT by ButThreeLeftsDo (Support Free Republic!!!)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

I’ve known 8 people who have done themselves in. Not a single one was firearm related.

Using my statistics, the overwhelming evidence is that we should ban garage doors


11 posted on 09/12/2013 7:42:19 PM PDT by digger48
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Who paid for the study?

Always follow the money trail.

12 posted on 09/12/2013 7:43:36 PM PDT by TYVets
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

“The study, which appears in the American Journal of Public Health,”

Sounds like some Obamacare-affiliated communist rag. I’ll stick with John Lott when it comes to guns. I doubt these nerds ever fired one.


13 posted on 09/12/2013 7:44:39 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: muir_redwoods

Low Information Voter news flash: 100% of gun-violence murders were committed by someone in possession of a firearm.


14 posted on 09/12/2013 7:45:06 PM PDT by dogcaller
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
They had to torture those numbers quite a bit to get the answer they wanted.

15 posted on 09/12/2013 7:45:12 PM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
...challenges the National Rifle Association's claim that increased gun ownership does not lead to higher levels of gun violence.

A real variable would be comparing legal gun ownership as opposed to illegally owned guns. Me thinks that variable was intentionally left out to skew the data.

In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the study used a proxy variable -- the percentage of a state's suicides committed with a firearm -- that has been validated in previous research.

Another meaningless statistic (that they probably inserted to make the data match their pre-conceived ideas) without examining whether the suicides would or would not have used some other means to off themselves if a gun was not available.
It would take a lot to convince me that most gun suicides would still be alive today if they had not had access to a gun. Besides, didn't I read somewhere that accidental gun deaths are included in these statistics?

16 posted on 09/12/2013 7:45:41 PM PDT by jeffc (The U.S. media are our enemy)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
So what?

The people’s rights under the constitution shall not be infringed.

Study that a$$hats.

17 posted on 09/12/2013 7:46:48 PM PDT by KittenClaws ( You may have to fight a battle more than once in order to win it." - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the study used a proxy variable -- the percentage of a state's suicides committed with a firearm -- that has been validated in previous research.

I guess these guys studied under Mann.

Then they note: The study also acknowledged a long-term decline in firearm homicide for all states, from 5.2 per 100,000 in 1981 to 3.5 per 100,000 in 2010.

So if firearm ownership has increased but firearm homicide has decreased how can they reach their conclusion: ... it determined that for every one percentage point in the prevalence of gun ownership in a given state, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9 percent.

???

Manure.

18 posted on 09/12/2013 7:47:29 PM PDT by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Here's the problem with the alleged correlation between firearm ownership and suicide, homicide, or violent crime with a firearm:

People at risk for suicide, homicide, or violent crime are more likely to buy a firearm, because they anticipate they will need it.

It's like getting a driver's license, because you are planning to buy a car.

19 posted on 09/12/2013 7:47:38 PM PDT by justlurking (tagline removed, as demanded by Admin Moderator)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

It does not look like what the headline advertised at all.


20 posted on 09/12/2013 7:47:59 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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21 posted on 09/12/2013 7:48:09 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (My faith and politics cannot be separated)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

“Garbage in, garbage out.”
_________________________________________
Of course...Everyone who touches a gun is going to die.

Science also tells us that everyone who drinks water, or eats rice is also gonna die.


22 posted on 09/12/2013 7:49:23 PM PDT by AlexW
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To: jeffc
Besides, didn't I read somewhere that accidental gun deaths are included in these statistics?

Don't be surprised if they included the Tsarnaev brothers in those numbers

23 posted on 09/12/2013 7:49:39 PM PDT by digger48
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To: digger48

hasn`t ben a murder in this town of 6,000 people since 1845 [That was a blunderbuss].
Everyone LEGALLY has an average of 5 rifles in his/her house.
Last murder here was in 1952 and that was with a tomahawk to the head.
last attempted homicide here was in 2001 and that was with a knife.
Guns are deterrents.
Since everyone here is a marksman from age 8, nobody dares use a gun to try to shoot anyone coz the neighbors will shoot you before you get the chance.


24 posted on 09/12/2013 7:50:01 PM PDT by bunkerhill7 (("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.))
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To: jeffc
Another meaningless statistic (that they probably inserted to make the data match their pre-conceived ideas) without examining whether the suicides would or would not have used some other means to off themselves if a gun was not available.

This has essentially been studied in Canada. After Canada made it much more difficult to buy a gun, the suicide rate remained the same.

However, the methods used to commit suicide shifted to ones other than firearms.

25 posted on 09/12/2013 7:50:03 PM PDT by justlurking (tagline removed, as demanded by Admin Moderator)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

the study used a proxy variable...oh ok, so if a foreign born muslim hid all his education records and got financial backing from a muslim group, obtained 6 or 7 bogus social security cards, changed his name a few times, got involved in corrupt politics in a corrupt town, did nothing to establish anything while serving in that capacity, he could become president.....how stupid, proxy variables are always discovered and exposed.


26 posted on 09/12/2013 7:52:09 PM PDT by Doogle (USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the study used a proxy variable -- the percentage of a state's suicides committed with a firearm...

Oh, please. In statistical terms this is known as Cooking The Books.

27 posted on 09/12/2013 7:52:25 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

What, no hockey stick graph?

This stuff is so easily manipulated. It’s embarrassing that anyone believes this crap.

If it is a leftist cause, you will find grossly fiddled data, far fetched assumptions put forth as empirical observations and analysis that would shame a Stat 101 student.

Hell, it should be titled “An Agenda Driven Tragedy Dressed up as Science”.


28 posted on 09/12/2013 7:56:33 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s.....you weren't really there)
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To: muir_redwoods

Yeah, it sounds like the study that determined guns were killing “the children” and it turned out they were sampling juvy gang bangers.


29 posted on 09/12/2013 7:57:19 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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Homicide, not murder?

Lemme guess, the perp gets killed by the gun owner.


30 posted on 09/12/2013 7:59:39 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

US study finds link between homosexuality and same sex marriage


31 posted on 09/12/2013 8:00:00 PM PDT by posterchild
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

This is an excellent study to have along side of Climate Change/Global Warming and the positive parenting skills of homosexuals.


32 posted on 09/12/2013 8:00:37 PM PDT by vetvetdoug
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Hmmm lets see...

Chicago and Houston. Similar sized cities...

Chicago 512 murders in 2012...

Houston 216 murders in 2012...

hmmm gee just can’t wrap my head around this... these numbers should mean something... awww but I guess I haven’t “controlled” for age, race, income, education blah blah blah in other words no fudge factors!

Statistics don’t lie... Statisticians lie!!!


33 posted on 09/12/2013 8:01:13 PM PDT by Syntyr (Happiness is two at low eight!)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
The study, led by Boston University community health sciences professor Michael Siegel...

I'm pretty sure he was peddling this stuff about a decade ago.

It hit me as being off back then, lacking in hard facts.

34 posted on 09/12/2013 8:02:38 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: DJ MacWoW

Wow, macwow.

Suicide figures are sad, of course. But like was mentioned early it’s unclear how many people who shot themselves to death would have killed themselves in some other fashion if shooting was not possible.


35 posted on 09/12/2013 8:03:27 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: DJ MacWoW

early => earlier


36 posted on 09/12/2013 8:03:44 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: posterchild

US study finds link between homosexuality and AIDS and early death but we wont report that...


37 posted on 09/12/2013 8:03:52 PM PDT by Syntyr (Happiness is two at low eight!)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

It’s BS and as soon as the methodology of this “study” is fully revealed, it will be apparent to all. In the meantime, the media will tout this as the final word on the matter.


38 posted on 09/12/2013 8:10:54 PM PDT by RC one
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

suicide != homicide.

If they are using gun-related suicides to produce stats about homicides then they need to go back to school to take statistics again. They also need to buy some dictionaries because the last time I checked the two terms are not synonymous.


39 posted on 09/12/2013 8:12:03 PM PDT by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Restoration of the Republic)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Sounds to me like the only thing they’ve shown is that lots of suicides are committed with firearms. Be interested to see if the absence of firearms would reduce suicides or would other methods be used instead.


40 posted on 09/12/2013 8:12:43 PM PDT by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: barmag25

yes. It’s junk science, without the science.


41 posted on 09/12/2013 8:15:33 PM PDT by newnhdad (Our new motto: USA, it was fun while it lasted.)
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To: jeffc
A real variable would be comparing legal gun ownership as opposed to illegally owned guns. Me thinks that variable was intentionally left out to skew the data.

[sincerity, average] You mean there's a difference between legally and illegally owned guns? How could that be? All guns are designed to kill people, aren't they? [/sincerity]

42 posted on 09/12/2013 8:19:43 PM PDT by Standing Wolf (No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the study used a proxy variable -- the percentage of a state's suicides committed with a firearm -- that has been validated in previous research.

In some states gun ownership is nearly universal. Those are the states with the largest absence of data. (Hint: check out western states with the lowest crime rates.)

43 posted on 09/12/2013 8:22:16 PM PDT by D Rider
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

to be scientific, they really do need to separate legal gun owners from criminal/illegal gun owners.

Until then it’s junk science trying to push a gun-grabbing agenda at all costs.


44 posted on 09/12/2013 8:26:32 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

This just in:

A study found that the rate of drunk drivers are higher in households that own cars.


45 posted on 09/12/2013 8:27:43 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Boston U lib prof--so what's unexpected? This study is as reliable as all those on homosexuality that "proved" it is genetic, Then they found out all the tests were done by homosexuals--well, duh!

Reckon this prof has a dog in this fight?

vaudine

46 posted on 09/12/2013 8:27:54 PM PDT by vaudine
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
The study also acknowledged a long-term decline in firearm homicide for all states, from 5.2 per 100,000 in 1981 to 3.5 per 100,000 in 2010.

Interesting... they admit that the facts contradict the conclusion they came to using proxy data... The gun ownership rate went up by a considerable percentage during that time period while the murder rate went down..

47 posted on 09/12/2013 8:45:51 PM PDT by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

They couldn’t find their asses with both hands !


48 posted on 09/12/2013 10:09:01 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK (I'm not afraid to say what i mean nor should you be afraid of what you know to be true !)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Rust never sleeps.


49 posted on 09/12/2013 11:10:00 PM PDT by absalom01 (You should do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, and you should never wish to do less.)
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To: fireman15; All

“gun violence” or “gun homicides” is a propaganda statistic.

What matters is total unjustified homicides.

If “gun homicides” go up, but total unjustified homicides go down, it is a win.

If “gun homicides” go down, but total unjustified homicides go up, it is a loss.

They are attempting to define the biggest part of the debate out of the question.


50 posted on 09/13/2013 3:37:41 AM PDT by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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