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McAuliffe Leads Cuccinelli in Virginia Governor Race (41-40%)
http://www.wenzelstrategies.com ^ | October 24th, 2013 | Fritz Wenzel

Posted on 10/24/2013 9:27:46 PM PDT by Maelstorm

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To: JediJones
We had some libertarians spoil some races last year too.

Maybe if the GOP backed up their small government, individual liberty rhetoric with real action instead of supporting the erosion of both of these things then people who value those things wouldn't go shopping for another place to vote. It's not just stoners who are voting Libertarian.

51 posted on 10/25/2013 6:55:20 AM PDT by pepsi_junkie (Who is John Galt?)
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To: nd76

In the House of Delegates races (100 total) there are 16 Dems running unopposed compared to 29 Reps running unopposed. The fact is that the Rep vote could be more depressed than the Dem vote given the number of Reps running unopposed. On a positive note, there is no way the Dems will gain control of the House of Delegates this year.


52 posted on 10/25/2013 6:56:29 AM PDT by kabar
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To: montag813

Yes, Cuccinelli is running hard on his opposition to Obamacare and his role in fighting it at the state level. Ken emphasized that again and again in the debate last night.


53 posted on 10/25/2013 6:59:25 AM PDT by kabar
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To: JediJones
No one should be able to win with less than 50% of the people preferring them. That’s not democratic.

Baloney. Why isn't it democratic? We have had Presidents who have been elected with less than 50% of the popular vote. European democracies with parliamentary governments have multiple parties.

More and more Americans are becoming frustrated with our two party system. What we have now is really one party with two wings--Dem and Rep.

54 posted on 10/25/2013 7:04:41 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Maelstorm

BTTT


55 posted on 10/25/2013 7:25:30 AM PDT by HokieMom (Pacepa : Can the U.S. afford a president who can't recognize anti-Americanism?)
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To: kabar

Ken also needs to tie McAuliffe to Obamacare. I think he did that in the debate or at least said he would keep Obamacare out of VA.


56 posted on 10/25/2013 7:33:04 AM PDT by Kenny (<p>)
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To: Kenny

McAwful wants to expand Medicaid under Obamacare.


57 posted on 10/25/2013 7:56:17 AM PDT by kabar
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To: what's up
Among Republicans, Cuccinelli wins just 68% support.

Sounds to me like the problem isn't with Libertarians. I'm not one and never would be, but this clip seems to indicate that Virginia has its share of establishment Republicans who won't get behind a conservative candidate.

58 posted on 10/25/2013 7:58:49 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Some people meet their heroes. I raised mine. Go Army.)
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To: kabar

Mostly, and primarily, he wants to steal the election in ‘16 for hillary

all else is facade


59 posted on 10/25/2013 7:59:36 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Travon... Felony assault and battery hate crime)
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To: freedom462; Maelstorm

What’s the GOP resistance to Cuccinelli? What were his missteps?


60 posted on 10/25/2013 8:23:26 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: preacher

If Bush I had won 1992, then Clinton might have been elected in 1996 and been president during 9/11. If there was an incumbent bump in 2004, Gore would’ve been elected. Then the economy crash would have put McCain in in 2008. And Obama might have beat him in 2012. And we’d be right back to where we are today, except with McCainCare instead of Obamacare.


61 posted on 10/25/2013 8:27:28 AM PDT by JediJones (The #1 Must-see Filibuster of the Year: TEXAS TED AND THE CONSERVATIVE CRUZ-ADE)
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To: kabar

It’s not baloney. You need to have a run-off, a multiple-choice ballot, or a ranked-choice ballot to have any idea what voters’ intent was. If 45% wanted the Dem but 55% would have taken either the libertarian or Republican over the Dem, but split the vote between them, then it’s undemocratic to let the Dem take office. Voting is about what the majority wants.

This is not pro or anti-third party. A run-off could benefit the third party just as easily as the Republican or Democrat. Run-offs arguably help the third party more, because all they have to do is come in second in order to get a chance to go head-to-head against just one of the major candidates. But the real issue is to require a majority of the voters to vote for the winner, not merely a plurality.


62 posted on 10/25/2013 8:32:04 AM PDT by JediJones (The #1 Must-see Filibuster of the Year: TEXAS TED AND THE CONSERVATIVE CRUZ-ADE)
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To: Colonel_Flagg
Sounds to me like the problem isn't with Libertarians. I'm "not one and never would be, but this clip seems to indicate that Virginia has its share of establishment Republicans who won't get behind a conservative candidate."

Oh, there are as many Republican traitors at the state level, believe me. Bill Bolling, our Romney-loving lieutenant governor, has refused to endorse Cuccinelli.

Also, earlier in the campaign I read that McAuliffe had bought off some Republicans in the Hampton Roads area. Sure enough, the Republican mayor of Virginia Beach pops up in a commercial, saying how proud he is to be endorsing a Democrat for the first time.

63 posted on 10/25/2013 8:34:09 AM PDT by CatherineofAragon ((Support Christian white males----the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization.))
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To: kabar

The other problem is that not requiring a majority to sign on to the winner opens up the potential for a more and more fringe candidate to win if the race has enough candidates. If a communist candidate can get 21% of the vote in a 5-man race, then he could win the election. Even though the other 79% might never have voted for him. No one should be given office without 50% of the public voting expressing support for them. Democracy doesn’t work otherwise and becomes a mockery or a sham potentially.


64 posted on 10/25/2013 8:36:11 AM PDT by JediJones (The #1 Must-see Filibuster of the Year: TEXAS TED AND THE CONSERVATIVE CRUZ-ADE)
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To: bert

Hillary will take VA easily in 2016 without any help from McAwful.


65 posted on 10/25/2013 8:36:34 AM PDT by kabar
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To: CatherineofAragon

McAuliffe is horrible. Praying that the Old Dominion elects the right man.


66 posted on 10/25/2013 8:40:38 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Some people meet their heroes. I raised mine. Go Army.)
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To: Maelstorm
In the current environment, where BIG government is encroaching ever further on individual rights and freedoms without regard for the Constitution, libertarians are far better served by electing a republican, especially a conservative republican.
67 posted on 10/25/2013 8:49:46 AM PDT by Rockitz (This is NOT rocket science - Follow the money and you'll find the truth.)
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To: JediJones
It’s not baloney. You need to have a run-off, a multiple-choice ballot, or a ranked-choice ballot to have any idea what voters’ intent was. If 45% wanted the Dem but 55% would have taken either the libertarian or Republican over the Dem, but split the vote between them, then it’s undemocratic to let the Dem take office. Voting is about what the majority wants.

That is your version of democracy. It is not the commonly accepted one. Clinton never got 50% of the popular vote. Should we have had a runoff? Is the electoral college democratic? We have a republic not a democracy.

This is not pro or anti-third party. A run-off could benefit the third party just as easily as the Republican or Democrat. Run-offs arguably help the third party more, because all they have to do is come in second in order to get a chance to go head-to-head against just one of the major candidates. But the real issue is to require a majority of the voters to vote for the winner, not merely a plurality.

They have runoffs where the top two vote getters are members of the same party. What happens if the top two vote recipients receive 20% and 15% of the primary vote? When we have low turnout elections, does that represent democracy to you when just a small percentage of the eligible voters show up to the polls?

I have no problem with multiple parties nominating their candidates and the winner decided on the number of votes received even if it is a plurality. And then there is the practical aspect of it that relates to the costs of holding multiple elections to both the taxpayers and the candidates.

And then there is the real world where the vast majority of elections in this country don't have run-offs. That is not going to change because the two major parties don't want it to change nor do their supporters. You can argue about how many angels can fit on the head of a pin, but it will have no impact on our electoral system. Maybe you should form a third party and make that your main objective.

The other alternative is to go to a parliamentary form of government and have proportional representation that gives smaller parties some political relevance.

68 posted on 10/25/2013 8:54:23 AM PDT by kabar
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To: JediJones
The other problem is that not requiring a majority to sign on to the winner opens up the potential for a more and more fringe candidate to win if the race has enough candidates. If a communist candidate can get 21% of the vote in a 5-man race, then he could win the election. Even though the other 79% might never have voted for him.

Can you cite some real world examples where this has happened in the US? How many fringe candidates do we have in Congress or in state legislatures?

No one should be given office without 50% of the public voting expressing support for them.

We have numerous examples where this is the case in Congress and state legislatures and yes, the WH even though the President is not elected by popular vote? Do you support direct election of the President and VP?

69 posted on 10/25/2013 9:00:54 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Colonel_Flagg

Thank you for your prayers; indeed he is awful.

Cuccinelli wiped the floor with the greasy liar in last night’s debate. No thinking person could possibly vote for McAuliffe...but therein lies the problem.


70 posted on 10/25/2013 9:10:43 AM PDT by CatherineofAragon ((Support Christian white males----the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization.))
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To: kabar

I’m not talking about changing popular vs. electoral vote. I’m saying the 50% rule should apply anywhere the popular vote is counted. So in a presidential election, that would occur on the state level in most cases to determine who is awarded the electoral votes. I would have to check in how many states Clinton got the electoral votes without winning 50% of the vote in those states. But absolutely he should not have been the automatic winner in a state if he didn’t get 50% of the vote.

I don’t care what’s commonly accepted. I can point to examples where run-off elections are held. It’s not a fringe idea. And it’s not just my idea of democracy. It is done more in primaries probably because those are often multi-candidate races, where the example I cited is more likely to happen, with a candidate potentially being the winner with a small portion of the vote.

If you want to let the left continue to be two steps ahead on the chess board, you can wait to worry about runoffs until they have firmly planted right-leaning third party candidates in all important races, and they wipe out the Republicans that way. Run-offs protect against this kind of manipulation.

The costs can be handled with a different kind of ballot, an instant runoff or ranked choice ballot. If the ballots asked who your second choice is if the first doesn’t win, those can be counted as an instant run-off without needing to have the voters return to the polls.

A low turnout election is perfectly democratic. That means a lot of voters said they don’t care which one is elected, which is fine. They express their non-preference for either by not showing up.

I like our form of government the way it is. But the voters have to be allowed to express their true intention at the polls. I don’t care if it’s easily going to be done or not. I have no doubt what the most accurate way of voting is and I’ll ask everyone else to get on board. We can either prevent the dishonest Dems figuring out how to game the system ahead of time, or wait until it might be too late.


71 posted on 10/25/2013 9:20:18 AM PDT by JediJones (The #1 Must-see Filibuster of the Year: TEXAS TED AND THE CONSERVATIVE CRUZ-ADE)
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To: CatherineofAragon

I had seen links to the debate posted elsewhere but haven’t had the chance to review them yet. And yes, you are quite right in that some elections are indeed decided by the unthinking ...

Bless your efforts and best of luck!


72 posted on 10/25/2013 9:28:57 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Some people meet their heroes. I raised mine. Go Army.)
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To: JediJones
I’m not talking about changing popular vs. electoral vote. I’m saying the 50% rule should apply anywhere the popular vote is counted. So in a presidential election, that would occur on the state level in most cases to determine who is awarded the electoral votes. I would have to check in how many states Clinton got the electoral votes without winning 50% of the vote in those states. But absolutely he should not have been the automatic winner in a state if he didn’t get 50% of the vote.

In 1992 Clinton only received 43% of the popular vote. Go state by state and you will see that Clinton didn't receive 50% of the vote in almost all of the states he won including NY. Arkansas was the only exception. And the same holds true for Bush.

American history is replete with such examples. So you are suggesting a runoff in every state where the Presidential candidate did not receive 50% of the vote? You would probably need a constitutional amendment to effect such a change. And that would never happen.

If you want to let the left continue to be two steps ahead on the chess board, you can wait to worry about runoffs until they have firmly planted right-leaning third party candidates in all important races, and they wipe out the Republicans that way. Run-offs protect against this kind of manipulation.

Both parties would support such measures to retain power. The RINOs would certainly support it to prevent a challenge on the right.

I don’t care what’s commonly accepted. I can point to examples where run-off elections are held. It’s not a fringe idea. And it’s not just my idea of democracy. It is done more in primaries probably because those are often multi-candidate races, where the example I cited is more likely to happen, with a candidate potentially being the winner with a small portion of the vote.

It is the exception not the rule. That should tell you something about its popularity. I don't care what is done locally or at the state level. It is the choice of the people. It should be a matter of free choice, not mandated. I don't see any popular movement to do what you want. Let the marketplace decide.

I like our form of government the way it is. But the voters have to be allowed to express their true intention at the polls. I don’t care if it’s easily going to be done or not. I have no doubt what the most accurate way of voting is and I’ll ask everyone else to get on board. We can either prevent the dishonest Dems figuring out how to game the system ahead of time, or wait until it might be too late.

Good luck at tilting at windmills. Why don't you start locally and convince people to follow your suggestion. Let's see how successful you are.

73 posted on 10/25/2013 9:42:06 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

I wouldn’t mandate it or amend it at the federal level. Election law doesn’t normally happen at that level. But I would encourage the parties and localities and states to do it and hope it becomes a trend. It really doesn’t benefit the two party-system more than another party or vice versa. There are scenarios for one or the other where it could help or hurt them. It’s something everyone should support since it means a fairer representation of what the majority of voters want.


74 posted on 10/25/2013 9:49:40 AM PDT by JediJones (The #1 Must-see Filibuster of the Year: TEXAS TED AND THE CONSERVATIVE CRUZ-ADE)
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To: JediJones
I wouldn’t mandate it or amend it at the federal level. Election law doesn’t normally happen at that level.

When elections are at the federal level, that is where the law is written. Check out Constitution.

It’s something everyone should support since it means a fairer representation of what the majority of voters want.

If the majority of voters want it, they will adopt it. So far, they have not.

Again, do you support the direct election of the President and VP, i.e., by popular vote?

75 posted on 10/25/2013 10:05:04 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar
Again, do you support the direct election of the President and VP, i.e., by popular vote?

I dunno about that FReeper but my answer would be NO WAY. I'd rather go back to letting state legislatures decide.

76 posted on 10/25/2013 10:06:58 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: GeronL

I agree with you. It also undermines federalism the same way the 17th amendment did.


77 posted on 10/25/2013 10:09:19 AM PDT by kabar
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To: 1010RD

One problem is some big money backers of Bob McDonnell and Bill Bolling have sown dissension and withheld money from the campaign. They don’t like that Ken Cuccinelli will not be bought. Its not that he’s socially conservative. Bob McDonnell has the same positions on social issues as Ken which is Ken is solidly prolife and pro traditional family. What McAuliffe has been doing is has been just running ads that are claiming Cuccinelli wants to ban birth control which is a lie. This is one reason for the big women gap in the polling.


78 posted on 10/25/2013 11:12:56 AM PDT by Maelstorm (Obamacare is your healthcare on stupid.)
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To: Colonel_Flagg
A lot of repubulicans could very well be going for the libertarian candidate...kind of like the Ron Paul devotees in the republican party (who are generally conservatives).

Not a good trend IMO.

79 posted on 10/25/2013 11:16:06 AM PDT by what's up
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To: Maelstorm

If cuchinelli loses, the 3rd party is partially to blame.


80 posted on 10/25/2013 11:35:34 AM PDT by austinaero
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To: Maelstorm
41 to 40? The Dems see that as close enough to steal!

Watch the ballot counting.....

81 posted on 10/25/2013 11:47:06 AM PDT by jeffc (The U.S. media are our enemy)
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To: Maelstorm

Wow, that’s dumb. Perhaps they think they’ll get a better deal with the Dem. Fascism is like that.


82 posted on 10/25/2013 1:20:38 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: austinaero

“If cuchinelli loses, the 3rd party is partially to blame.”

Absolutely.

And these Libertarian folks need to be stopped or they will ruin Republican chances all across the country and the Democrats will make Libertarians run in races.

State Republican legislatures should work to prohibit or make it much more difficult for Libertarians to enter political elections.


83 posted on 10/25/2013 1:59:05 PM PDT by Oliviaforever
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To: DIRTYSECRET
Terry McAuliffe is the epitome of crony capitalism.
84 posted on 10/25/2013 3:11:31 PM PDT by CPT Clay (Follow me on Twitter @Clay N TX)
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To: Maelstorm

When you look up Crony Capitalism in the dictionary, you see a picture of Terry McAuliffe beside it.


85 posted on 10/25/2013 3:13:13 PM PDT by CPT Clay (Follow me on Twitter @Clay N TX)
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To: Jane Long

Libertarians are going to hand the race to the dem.


86 posted on 10/25/2013 3:14:32 PM PDT by CPT Clay (Follow me on Twitter @Clay N TX)
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To: pepsi_junkie
"Maybe if the GOP backed up their small government, individual liberty rhetoric with real action instead of supporting the erosion of both of these things then people who value those things wouldn't go shopping for another place to vote. It's not just stoners who are voting Libertarian."

Sarvis, the Libertarian, is on record saying he will tax carbon emissions. How does that fit into a small government platform? He has also promised to do all he can to push "marriage equality" on Virginia, again contradicting his "small government" garbage. If he meant it, he would keep his nose out of it and allow the people to vote on it.

Make no mistake about Sarvis; he is nothing but a stalking horse for McAuliffe, who said last night that he and Sarvis share many of the same views and then contrasted them with that of "radical" Cuccinelli.

87 posted on 10/25/2013 4:31:53 PM PDT by CatherineofAragon ((Support Christian white males----the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization.))
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To: Colonel_Flagg

Thank you so much.


88 posted on 10/25/2013 4:32:57 PM PDT by CatherineofAragon ((Support Christian white males----the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization.))
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To: kabar

“Hillary will take VA easily in 2016 without any help from McAwful.”

Unfortunately, that’ll very likely be the case. I predict she’ll carry 30 states...erstwhile conservative women will be coming out in a show of sisterhood. Hillary has the 2016 election in the bag if she wants it.


89 posted on 10/25/2013 8:00:25 PM PDT by ScottinVA (Obama is so far in over his head, even his ears are beneath the water level.)
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To: Maelstorm

BTTT


90 posted on 10/25/2013 8:01:49 PM PDT by HokieMom (Pacepa : Can the U.S. afford a president who can't recognize anti-Americanism?)
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To: ScottinVA

The Dems start with a huge electoral edge in states, including most of the big ones, e.g., CA, NY, IL, MI, NJ, MA, PA, WI, MN, MD, and WA. The path to the Presidency is far easier for the Dems.


91 posted on 10/25/2013 8:15:48 PM PDT by kabar
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To: Maelstorm

and who will be monitering the precincts? hopefully they wont be run like the ones in Philly and Chicago.


92 posted on 10/25/2013 9:23:55 PM PDT by Cruz_West_Paul2016
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To: kabar

Exactly.... They have a built-in guarantee of 240+ electoral votes before the tabulating even starts.


93 posted on 10/26/2013 3:17:41 AM PDT by ScottinVA (Obama is so far in over his head, even his ears are beneath the water level.)
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To: kabar

Once VA and FL are made permanent, it’s officially over.


94 posted on 10/26/2013 3:19:57 AM PDT by ScottinVA (Obama is so far in over his head, even his ears are beneath the water level.)
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To: onyx

Ditto! Hi Onyxie! long time.....


95 posted on 10/26/2013 6:09:02 AM PDT by Mountain Mary (Konni Burton for Texas State Senate!)
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To: bert

That’s what I was thinking too, bert. Isn’t McAwful just a shill for the Clinton “machine”?


96 posted on 10/26/2013 6:12:09 AM PDT by Mountain Mary (Konni Burton for Texas State Senate!)
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To: what's up

Cuccinelli is a fantastic libertarian.


97 posted on 10/26/2013 8:28:34 AM PDT by Monorprise
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