Posted on 11/09/2013 9:17:25 AM PST by ComtedeMaistre
One of the strangest parts of the Bible is Job 1:6
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+1&version=GNT
[When the day came for the heavenly beings to appear before the Lord, Satan was there among them. The Lord asked him, “What have you been doing?”]
This part suggests that Satan visits heaven. Satan, of course, began as a full time resident of heaven, before he was expelled from heaven. It seems that he retains visiting rights.
It is this passage that led Mormons to teach that Jesus and Satan started out as brothers. We do know that Lucifer/Satan was the most senior of the Angels, with more seniority than Arch-Angels Gabriel and Michael. He was effectively Number 3 in heaven after God and Jesus.
Can any freeper Bible experts explain what Satan was doing in heaven, when unrepentant human sinners whose sins are much less than Satan's, are going straight to hell without a chance of seeing heaven?
“Same with the Church of England “
Without question. What’s your point since that organization wasn’t being used to make the point?
One of the mysteries of existence is the nature of time. Time is one of the many boxes in which human kind attempts to put God. We are so material and so linear the difficulty to imagine One unconstrained by Time/space is overwhelming. Only those who have thought long and deeply about such things like learned philosophers and theoretical physicists have even scratched the surface of understanding. It may be that time is simply a construct of humanity to organize an orderly progression of events so that our limitations can ascribe meaning to existence. Perhaps for God all things exist/occur simultaneously. His statement “ a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day” may give insight into this. Also the many biblical statements attributing future completed events as if they were currently happening or had already happened. “For unto us a Son IS born...” “Beloved NOW are we the Sons of God but it does not yet appear what we SHALL be...” There is an order of magnitude in difference between God and humankind that is greater than that between an ameoba and a human. While we can glimpse tiny flashes of understanding and can grow in our awarenesses to believe we have the capacity to understand His nature makes for a limited God indeed.
Satan has not yet been cast out of Heaven. This will be done by Michael the archangel at the same time the antichrist is revealed when he defiles the yet-to-be-built third temple.
Satan currently has access to Heaven in order to accuse God’s saints (i.e. believers) before the throne of God. See Revelation 12.
Christ is continuously interceding on behlalf of His saints (i.e. believers). See Romans 8:34.
“It is this passage that led Mormons to teach that Jesus and Satan started out as brothers. We do know that Lucifer/Satan was the most senior of the Angels, with more seniority than Arch-Angels Gabriel and Michael. He was effectively Number 3 in heaven after God and Jesus.”
Wrong. The Devil and Jesus are not on the same level. The Devil is a created finite being. Jesus is the Son of God, diety, Creator of all things (including the Devil).
The Creator is too big to be contained by the entire universe. He is aware of the smallest detail, such as the number of hairs on our head, and whenever a single bird falls to the ground. He knows when, where and what type of bird it was. But He also is fully aware and in control of the largest things in the universe. He has names for every star and planet and other heavenly body.
Satan thought he could run the universe and be God, and do a better or equal job as God. To this, God just laughs. Satan cannot even count the number of stars in heaven. If he could, God said He would break His promise to preserve and protect Israel. If Satan could even just count them, God could verify the number because He knows the number and the unique name and purpose He has given to each one.
Satan cannot even run one tiny little speck in the universe called Earth. He is currently “the god of this world”, and is doing a very poor job of it. There are rules that must be followed. And, yes, Satan does report to God about what he is doing on Earth.
Matthew 10:29-30
“Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.”
Psalm 147:4
“He counts the number of the stars; He calls them all by name.”
Genesis 22:17
“blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies.”
Jeremiah 31:35-37
“Thus says the Lord, Who gives the sun for a light by day, The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night, Who disturbs the sea, And its waves roar (The Lord of hosts is His name): ‘If those ordinances depart From before Me, says the Lord, Then the seed of Israel shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever.’ Thus says the Lord: ‘If heaven above can be measured, And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel For all that they have done, says the Lord.’ “
Hebrews 11:12
“Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.”
2 Corinthians 4:4
“whose minds the god of this world has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.”
John 16:33
“These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
I am not sure but I vaguely recall a minister stating after Satan brief visit to Heaven regarding Job, Noah’s Flood occur. Flushing out the stench that Satan permeated in the Heavens.
I did not say ALL demons are restrained. They are legion.
Specifically, in the bible, the 1/3 of angels that followed Satan are currently restrained and will be let loose during the end times (as will Satan himself after the 1000 year reign of Christ — which of course is AFTER the Tribulation).
Lesser demons are still running rampant, as is Satan himself who is the “God of this world”.
Archeologists have actually found the location of “UZ” which means “nowhere”...in a pretty remote place in eastern Syria,northern Jordan and extreme western Iraq(quite possible due to the Babylonians taking the Jews captive). (Some argue was southern Israel where the Edomites lived because of verses describing that section as the land of UZ)So another words Job lived in “Nowhere’sville” if you will.( kind of funny is you take it that way) So if the location is real, it is quite plausible that Job may have existed and the book of Job an actual accounting and not a parable.
Maybe his chance to see heaven and face God from time to time is part of his punishment? Show him what he lost?
ROFL That’s true
I’ve heard it said that the fallen angels themselves were bound, but the spirits of their offspring with women roam the earth, as demons. The Ethiopic Enoch backs this up. I don’t necessarily accept or reject this explanation. It’s not counter to the Bible but it’s extraBiblical.
Well, the only extra biblical account I put any stock in is the book of Enoch, which is mentioned in the bible, and we have some really early versions (I believe from the african church).
At any rate, it says that the “giants” (and other corrupted offspring of the fallen angels interbreeding with mankind) were destroyed, and it’s their spirits that haunt the earth.
The original angels are chained (restrained) now until the final days (according to the bible)
Seems like Satan was cast out of Heaven and confined here on Earth. That would explain a lot of today’s evils.
Lucifer (Satan)was the highest angel in heaven. He had no part of the Godhead. God is three persons in one, Farher, Son, Holy Spirit.
Lucifer was in charge of the angels under the direction of God.
Satan did and does go to heaven for the purpose of accusing the Saints. The saints are those who belong to God through His Son Christ Jesus.
This was the error of Balaam, for he did ot believe God could count a sinner righteous, not knowing about faith in Gods promised one.
This is the plan of God and works for those looking forward to the cross (as Job did) or looking back as we do today. The Bible is a one themed book, It is all about Gods promised Son, The Lord Christ Jesus.
Satan started out as an angel right?
Yes and he rebelled under the “best of intentions”, well he thought so anyways, proving that the road to hell is paved with good intentions...
Job is the earliest (in terms of the time it took place) in the bible (other than the creation accounts in Genesis, that although they occurred earlier, they were not written down until AFTER the time of Job).
Job came well before Moses, and before Abraham.
I have no doubt Job is not an allegory or parable, it’s a true account. Keep in mind, it came before the law was given.
Also, most people have trouble with the fact that Job’s children were killed and more restored to him. Just a reminder - God’s timing is perfect, what the enemy means to cause harm, God turns into good. God’s allowing Satan to destroy Job’s children may very well have insured their salvation...who knows what the success of Job’s household may have done to those children? Only God knows what is best.
We see through a glass darkly, we should trust God’s eyes.
The devil is out to destroy, that is, kill. He cannot do it himself so he tempts men to kill for him. Creating heaven on earth, utopia, is a steep and muddy slope to dystopia guaranteed. Just a hop, skip and jump to mass murders.
That’s my understanding as well, I’m just reserved about accepting it as Biblical truth, because it isn’t there. Enoch the man was held in high regard Biblically, and some Biblical passages appear to cite or paraphrase passages of the Ethiopic Enoch, so I don’t reject it either.
Sure...And you don't have to be a bible expert...However you DO have to read (or hear) the bible...
There's a big difference between seeing heaven in front of the Judge and living there as a child of God...
“Satan was a fallen angel, he was booted from heaven
This puts the lie to the idea “Once saved, always saved”
heh”
Good point, I’m going to remember that! I never bought the once saved always saved thing, btw. Kind of like ‘I can do anything I want and it’s alright’ idea. No.
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