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Memo to House GOP [Kristol Says Pass Debt Ceiling, But Do NOT Pass Amnesty]
Weekly Standard ^ | 1/24/14 | William Kristol

Posted on 01/24/2014 7:06:54 PM PST by SoFloFreeper

Election Day is almost nine months off. But right now Republicans seem almost certain to hold the House of Representatives and are likely to take the Senate. Which raises the inevitable question: How might the GOP seize defeat from the jaws of victory?

Two occasions stand out, two obvious obstacles ahead that could lead to disastrous Republican stumbles...

...conservative activists should give up their fond hopes of a debt ceiling bonanza and more or less let the hike go through unscathed (they can still vote against it, of course)....conservatives...should aggressively advance freestanding legislative proposals, to repeal and delay parts of Obamacare, for instance, and they’ll be better off with a clean debate on such legislation free of the specter of default...

...Boehner should make his own concession: He should announce that he will not bring any immigration legislation to the floor this session. If there’s one thing that could blow up GOP chances for a good 2014, it would be an explosive debate over immigration in the House. The only sure way to avoid such a debate is not to let anything onto the floor in the first place. Once even an innocuous-sounding measure gets passed, then the pressure to go to conference with the loathed Senate bill will be great. And whatever ultimately were to happen, activists would spend months worrying about and agitating against a betrayal by the leadership, business interests would spend months urging such a betrayal, and Republicans would be consumed by infighting and recriminations on an issue that does them no short-term political good. Bringing immigration to the floor insures a circular GOP firing squad, instead of a nicely lined-up one shooting together and in unison at Obamacare and other horrors of big government liberalism...

(Excerpt) Read more at weeklystandard.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; billkristol; budget; debt; debtceiling; gopestablishment; neocons; rinos
Again, I know Kristol is somehow hated on this board. I don't always agree with him, but he makes some good points....
1 posted on 01/24/2014 7:06:54 PM PST by SoFloFreeper
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To: SoFloFreeper

They need to stop raising the debt ceiling, it has become a huge joke that they pretend to be fiscal OR moral conservatives


2 posted on 01/24/2014 7:08:51 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: SoFloFreeper

Cut spending, secure the Border (or Die).


3 posted on 01/24/2014 7:10:54 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: SoFloFreeper

Are some of the Establishment Republicans finally waking up to the fact if Immigration/Amnesty is passed, they will NEVER win another election?


4 posted on 01/24/2014 7:12:09 PM PST by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right..........)
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To: SoFloFreeper

Amnesty is the big one. Once given it can’t be taken back.


5 posted on 01/24/2014 7:13:59 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: SoFloFreeper

How come the Demonuts did not do Amnesty when they controlled the house ,senate and white house ? They just saved it so they could screw over the GOP like they do with everything else and the GOP fall for it every single time .


6 posted on 01/24/2014 7:17:05 PM PST by molson209 (Hillary Clinton)
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To: SoFloFreeper

Kristol may be disliked on FR but his ideas in this article are very well thought out.


7 posted on 01/24/2014 7:17:32 PM PST by upchuck (Stop this abuse now! Get behind Convention of States: http://bit.ly/1ak1Iz9)
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To: cripplecreek

Neither can unsustainable debt.


8 posted on 01/24/2014 7:19:54 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: SoFloFreeper

He’s a RINO, but he has his moments. He took Charles Lame to the mat when he attacked the Tea Party last year, exposing the fact that Rove was the reason we didn’t take the senate. I was glad for that.

Amnesty will destroy America. It must be stopped at all costs.


9 posted on 01/24/2014 7:20:16 PM PST by Viennacon
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To: upchuck

Sure, when it’s party over conservatism.


10 posted on 01/24/2014 7:20:26 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: SoFloFreeper

>> he makes some good points....

He’s half right. Yes... do NOT bring up ANY immigration legislation! (Unless it’s for a thirty foot high wall.)

But he’s dead wrong on the debt. A significant number of Americans understand that our endless borrowing and spending won’t end well. Hold the administration’s feet to the fire! But don’t do stupid stuff like passing a resolution to pay the federal trough-suckers anyhow. The public UNDERSTANDS that the reason for cutting spending is to cut the government gibsmedats off at the knees.


11 posted on 01/24/2014 7:22:56 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: Olog-hai

And amnesty will drive up debt faster than anything and it still can’t be taken back.


12 posted on 01/24/2014 7:24:00 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: SoFloFreeper

Does anyone really think the GOP higher ups are listening? They are gutless, have no clue and don’t really care so long as they remain in power. We are at the apex of the 200 year cycle. Unless something changes, it is downhill from here, and very quickly with leftists in power.


13 posted on 01/24/2014 7:28:44 PM PST by Fungi
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To: SoFloFreeper

Ditch Kristol. (along with Mitch)


14 posted on 01/24/2014 7:28:54 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: cripplecreek

So why the false dilemma between the two?


15 posted on 01/24/2014 7:32:17 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: SoFloFreeper; ObamahatesPACoal; Tennessee Nana; Liz; TADSLOS; EXCH54FE; GeronL; Travis McGee; ...
Kristol :”.Boehner should make his own concession: He should announce that he will not bring any immigration legislation to the floor this session. If there’s one thing that could blow up GOP chances for a good 2014, it would be an explosive debate over immigration in the House. The only sure way to avoid such a debate is not to let anything onto the floor in the first place. ....
And whatever ultimately were to happen, activists would spend months worrying about and agitating against a betrayal by the leadership, business interests would spend months urging such a betrayal, and Republicans would be consumed by infighting and recriminations on an issue that does them no short-term political good. Bringing immigration to the floor insures a circular GOP firing squad, instead of a nicely lined-up one shooting together and in unison at Obamacare and other horrors of big government liberalism.”

He is 100% right, and he is a neocon.,

Starting a GOP civil war now with Dems on the sidelines calling them racists with a amnesty bill hurt the GOP in 2006, and would hurt them now. It would be a gift to Dems which is why they are easing up on their demands.

This is very polarizing issue for GOP and generally a uniting one for Dems.

Even if some blacks are against amnesty they would just blame GOP for it, not Obama.

16 posted on 01/24/2014 7:36:36 PM PST by sickoflibs (Obama : 'If you like your Doctor you can keep him, PERIOD! Don't believe the GOPs warnings')
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To: sickoflibs

Everything the GOP-e does is a gift to the Dems. They may as well call themselves what they are, which is the Democratic Party.


17 posted on 01/24/2014 7:37:49 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Viennacon
Amnesty will destroy America. It must be stopped at all costs.

I think the RINOs want to destroy America, at only a slightly slower pace than the rats. They are complicit with rats, and they know it. That is another reason, among many, why they are called the stupid party. I despise RINOs as much as rats. They are the same to me.

18 posted on 01/24/2014 7:40:32 PM PST by Mark17 (Chicago Blackhawks: Stanley Cup champions 2010, 2013. Vietnam Veteran, 70-71 Msgt USAF, ret)
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To: cripplecreek

Heritage estimates an amnesty will cost $6.3 trillion and that assumes there are only 12 million lawbreakers.


19 posted on 01/24/2014 7:40:38 PM PST by kabar
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To: Nervous Tick
He’s half right. Yes... do NOT bring up ANY immigration legislation! (Unless it’s for a thirty foot high wall.)

Wrong. Any bill can be turned into a Trojan Horse for the Dems in the Senate, even a border security bill. The border security bill now being considered in the House Homeland Security committee is a disaster. I don't trust Chairman McCaul for a minute. It is a trap.

20 posted on 01/24/2014 7:47:40 PM PST by kabar
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To: kabar

OK, I’ll gladly settle for “don’t bring ANY immigration bill up”.


21 posted on 01/24/2014 7:49:06 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: Olog-hai
RE:”Everything the GOP-e does is a gift to the Dems. They may as well call themselves what they are, which is the Democratic Party.”

Karl Rove the architect says its those crazy Tea party guys doing that,

He says he hired Paul Ryan to get them under control so the GOP can take back Washington. Says to keep mentioning 'the Ryan Plan'

22 posted on 01/24/2014 7:56:16 PM PST by sickoflibs (Obama : 'If you like your Doctor you can keep him, PERIOD! Don't believe the GOPs warnings')
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To: SoFloFreeper

It would make more sense for everyone involved to try to pass immigration reform whether it is amnesty or enforcement in 2015 with more Senate control.

The longer it is delayed the better the chance is to stop it. It was harder for them to try to pass amnesty after the Boston Bombing not before it.

The bill will be just as terrible with the Ayotte’s and McCainiacs needing to approve the lack of enforcement.

Whether they get an immigration bill on Obama’s desk, Steve King becomes the spokesman for the base of the GOP on immigration. I thought they wanted to silence him. Wanted to stop him baiting Boehner and La Raza.

If every little comment offends Hispanic voters why don’t the RINOs stop trying to push an amnesty backlash?


23 posted on 01/24/2014 7:57:18 PM PST by ObamahatesPACoal
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To: GeronL
They need to stop raising the debt ceiling, it has become a huge joke that they pretend to be fiscal OR moral conservatives

The debt ceiling isn't really the problem. That's just making good on all the overspending they already agreed to do.

The debt ceiling fight is like refusing to pay your credit card bill when it arrives. Very irresponsible and costs more money in the long run. Better to stop charging things you can't afford in the first place.

Similarly, it's better that the United States of America pay all its debts, and just start incurring less of them.
24 posted on 01/24/2014 8:06:10 PM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: highball

The debt ceiling “fight” (lol) is saying “we are this far in debt now lets make sure we can get even deeper in debt!!”


25 posted on 01/24/2014 8:14:36 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: molson209

They knew it was toxic to stop their agenda. Even the most liberal democrats aren’t as into open borders as Paul Ryan. They wanted Zerocare and card check.

Rahm Emmanuel was whipping Blue Dogs into voting with Tancredo on immigration back in the day.

What could be unlikely is if for some reason Berni Sanders, Pryor,Hagan, Manchin and some Republicans get enough votes for 41 to block Boehner-Reid’s amnesty bill if they make it appear to be a second class citizen bill.

Berni Sanders just wants more Democrat voters. He doesnt want to import additional foreign workers. He only did the Youth Jobs Amendment because Schumer was desperate for 70 votes.


26 posted on 01/24/2014 8:20:32 PM PST by ObamahatesPACoal
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To: Viennacon

The plan is to put McCaul & Jackson-Lee fake border bill out on the floor. 1417...


27 posted on 01/24/2014 9:06:33 PM PST by magna carta
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To: magna carta

Anything with Jackson-Lee’s name on it should be trashed immediately. Texas does itself a disservice sending this tramp to congress.


28 posted on 01/24/2014 9:09:12 PM PST by Viennacon
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To: sickoflibs

Why couldn’t he just say.......let it die in the house and never mention it again. It never happened. That’s what Harry Reid does.
They don’t do that because they want it too. If it screws Americans they are for it.


29 posted on 01/24/2014 9:12:00 PM PST by sheana
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To: sheana

Many in GOP want immigration reform done before 2012 primary so they don’t have to debate it then and risk that election,
for similar reasons as Kristal says to avoid it now.


30 posted on 01/24/2014 9:18:02 PM PST by sickoflibs (Obama : 'If you like your Doctor you can keep him, PERIOD! Don't believe the GOPs warnings')
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To: SoFloFreeper

If the House passes any of the amnesty bills currently planned, they can forget about control of the Senate and probably lose some seats in the House! Talk about shooting themselves in the foot!...geez!


31 posted on 01/24/2014 10:44:32 PM PST by Deagle (ues)
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To: SoFloFreeper

Interesting coming from a notorious Amnesty Liberal like Kristol. Obviously sees GOP suicide w Illegal Alien Amnesty


32 posted on 01/24/2014 11:46:05 PM PST by SeminoleCounty (Amnesty And Not Ending ObamaCare Will Kill GOP In 2014)
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To: SoFloFreeper

So Kristol is against Amnesty, huh?
The Neocons will need a new poster child..


33 posted on 01/25/2014 1:49:22 AM PST by rhinohunter (Freepers aren't booing -- they're shouting "Cruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuz")
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To: GeronL
The debt ceiling “fight” (lol) is saying “we are this far in debt now lets make sure we can get even deeper in debt!!”

No, it's about admitting that we're in debt. The spending bills are where we get deeper in debt, the ceiling is just where we agree to pay for what they've actually spent.

It is incredibly irresponsible to run up a massive tab and then say "we won't pay the bill." Worse, it's anti-conservative. It's bad for the country, because that wastes even more tax dollars. But they think we're so stupid, they have such contempt for us, that they think we'll reward them for not paying the bill they ran up.

That's not where we need to fight. We need to fight the spending bills tooth and nail. By the time we get to the debt ceiling that fight has been lost, and we only further damage the country by pretending otherwise.

Any so-called "conservative" who votes for a spending bill and then picks a fight over the debt ceiling is unworthy of the name. It means they have contempt for the American public and the country itself.
34 posted on 01/25/2014 6:50:45 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: highball
It is incredibly irresponsible to run up a massive tab and then say "we won't pay the bill."

Bull crap, you are wrong. FedGov™ monthly debt servicing bill could more than be covered by the monthly tax revenues. I don't know who you are but you are spreading liberal talking points.

35 posted on 01/25/2014 6:53:48 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: highball
Any so-called "conservative" who votes for a spending bill and then picks a fight over the debt ceiling is unworthy of the name. It means they have contempt for the American public and the country itself.

You're full of < expletive deleted >. Troll much?

36 posted on 01/25/2014 6:55:52 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va

Holding politicians accountable is trolling? Calling them on their bait-and-switch nonsense is trolling?

You might want to check your dictionary on that.

I’ll say it again - anyone who votes for a bloated spending bill, then pretends they’re against it when the check actually comes due, is not a conservative. And they think you’re a gullible fool.


37 posted on 01/25/2014 7:09:29 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: SoFloFreeper

So Kristol is against Amnesty, huh?
The Neocons will need a new poster child..


38 posted on 01/25/2014 7:33:45 AM PST by rhinohunter (Freepers aren't booing -- they're shouting "Cruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuz")
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To: highball

The debt ceiling only limits the ability of the Treasury to pay for the spending Congress has already authorized. Refusing to raise the ceiling does not do anything for either our deficit or national debt, although crass politicians would love for us to confuse the two and believe that it does; that way they can talk tough while still loading their districts and let projects with pork.

The debt ceiling is not the place to fight out-of-control wasteful spending. Spending bills are the place to fight out-of-control wasteful spending. The “Farm” Bill is coming up soon - that’s ripe for the attacking.


39 posted on 01/25/2014 7:38:15 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: highball
Dear math challenged:

I will attempt one more time to enlighten you. Taking 2011 as an example the DEFICIT = 1.6T. Most people can relate to monthly expenditures so we will do that, it works out to 1.6T/12 = 133B/month. This debt must be paid. It can easily be paid with INCOME already coming into the Treasury ever month. Monthly revenue = 190B/mo. Thus reaching the debt ceiling would not prohibit the servicing of the debt. GET IT YET?

40 posted on 01/25/2014 9:52:35 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va
The one challenged is you, my friend.

If the only thing the United States Government spent its money on was debt service, you'd be right. But unfortunately, in addition to all past obligations they have all those other brand-new goodies and freebies to pay for.

We're talking about total federal expenditures, which is well above revenues (hence the existence of, you know, a deficit).

If politicians really want to get tough on either the debt or deficit, they need to cut spending in the first place. That happens in appropriations bills. But Congresscritters don't actually like to cut spending - too many palms to grease, after all - so they pass bloated and obscene spending bills then pretend that a debt ceiling showdown will do a damn thing to fix the problem.

We can't let them continue to get away with it. Cut spending, cut spending, cut spending. That's the only way to address our deficit, and with it our national debt.
41 posted on 01/25/2014 10:10:58 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: highball

Troll go away. We need to stop the sending and the debt ceiling is the way to do it. THAT IS WHY IT WAS CREATED FOR THIS EXACT REASON.


42 posted on 01/25/2014 10:12:45 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va

No, no, no. You have to cut spending at the source, not just refuse to pay bills when they come due. Which is what the debt ceiling showdown is.

I’m sorry that you can’t understand this, but insulting me won’t change that reality.


43 posted on 01/25/2014 10:17:13 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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