Posted on 03/01/2014 3:14:54 PM PST by BurningOak
Dozens of people have been hurt in clashes in the eastern Ukrainian city of Kharkiv. Violence reportedly broke out when pro-Russia activists stormed the regional government’s headquarters.
...
They denounced the Kyiv authorities that have been installed - and called for reunification with Russia.
A Russian flag was later seen being raised.
(Excerpt) Read more at euronews.com ...
I saw violence from civilian to civilian...which leads me to believe that Ethnic Ukrainians...Western Parties etc. didn't take kindly to the Russians storming the government building.
I'm also wondering if they are paid militia.
This could get very ugly. Very ugly.
The biggest tank battle of all time was at Kursk not Kharkov.
That ring of "Russians" on the Black Sea coast reaches all the way to Moldova and parts of Romania. There are already a couple of thousand Russian troops in Transnistria (it's like every other city block over there is a different country).
Odessa has been "Russian" since there was an Odessa.
The nationalists in Kiev and Lviv will get to keep a landlocked country with no agriculture, no industry, no order and no prospects.
They get to keep the part the Russians don't want.
You win the Godwin Award for this thread!
Aside from the heated rhetoric, I agree.
Interesting situation. I think back to the break up of Yugoslavia, and have to view this one as much better in terms of bloodshed leading up to the tipping point where the break up can happen. If the people can somehow self-arrange themselves into a couple or few new countries without the stuff that went on there, that would be great.
You failed to mention that Kharkov was taken by the Russians in the wake of their Stalingrad successes but then was RETAKEN by the Germans. It was the last large metropolis ever taken by the German Army in World War II.
and all of this is happening right after Bambi cuts back on the military. right?
I was thinking about if Ukraine breaks up, what about the government and military pensions? How does that work?
Government and military pensions for the Russian side will be secured by Russia to make sure population is loyal. Pensioners and Russian veterans are the biggest supporters of annexation with Russia. Anyone with a business or property, especially Ukrainians and Tatars, will have it confiscated by the Kremlin mafia, to build hotels, brothels, and casinos.
It was a brutal and inhumane battle. Stalin left the army there to defend to the death. They were wiped out, but put up a Stalingrad like defense which slowed the German offensive and saved Leningrad and Moscow.
Good question. I imagine there are lots of details like that to sort out whenever a country splits into more than one.
When the Soviet Union broke up my in-laws in the Eastern Ukraine lost all the money they had paid toward a Volga automobile after having paid the full amount over years and were awaiting delivery. My mother-in-law worked at a huge chemical plant and at times received no pay, or she received script of dubious value, or food staples. The transition from Russsian Rubles to Ukrainian Hryvnia was chaotic.
Today my mother-in-law receives a pension but it is not based on her specific work as a top engineer at the chemical plant. It is just a standard pension provided by the Ukrainian government.
My extended family of in-laws live in the Eastern Ukraine and are Russian speakers but they DO NOT want to be part of Russia.
The T34 was, and remains a legend. The T34 (84,000 produced) which were built by women in the backfront, came as a nasty surprise, for overconfident nazi German troops.
The tank a combination of a perfect armour (thick and highly sloped), efficient gun, good speed and autonomy, sturdiness, easy manufacturing and maintenance.
They played a main role in the great battles of WWII: Kharkov, Kursk and Stalingrad, when the army of Von Paulus capitulated ...
“The biggest tank battle of all time was at Kursk not Kharkov.”
You’re right, I stand corrected.
At Kursk battle there were more than 4,000 tanks involved.
The Battle of Kursk involved countless tanks but it was very much like a World War I battle in that relatively few kilometers were gained at a huge cost due to the overall equality of the forces involved. The Germans were faced with the question of continuing the offense at a risk of “reinforcing failure”. Should they break off the offensive... or ...make more pushes that could lead to success.
Field Marshall von Manstein was skeptical of overall success but favored continuing the meat grinder as it trapped the Russians to committing their forces at this predictable place rather than giving them the initiative to develop attacks at strategic spots of their choosing.
We know how it ends.
“Consider it a divorce.”
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