Funny how?
Posted on 03/18/2014 5:28:37 AM PDT by McGruff
Ukraine despatched tanks into the rolling terrain of the Donbas basin on Monday, putting its biggest guns back on the scene of the biggest armoured clash in history.
It was in this bleak but fertile landscape along what is now Ukraine's border with Russia that the Red Army routed Nazi Panzers to turn the course of the Second World War.
But as Ukraine's dilapidated tank units moved to muddy berms in the fields south of Donetsk city as part of face-saving mobilisation, the guns of T-64 and T-72 models were this time pointed towards Russia.
In responding to a reported Russian military build-up, however, Ukraine's military immediately ran into groups of activists who tried to obstruct their movements. In the village of Elenvola on the edge of the great plain, there was anger at the manoeuvres from their own countrymen.
"Russians and Ukrainians don't want to fight each other," said Ivan Inozemev, a prison warder. "We would be happy to be part of Russia if that's what happens."
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
You're a funny guy.
You ask, "....if they wish to defend it in the manner of their choosing.."
A suicide mission isn't a defense..ask the Japs..the few that survived, on any Pacific island. It's NOT a defense. Period.
I'd likely trade land/space for time...pull them all back..see what happens.
Funny how?
Priceless.
You are noble.
The thing about wars, is that the guy that jumps on the grenade are heroes. The guys that put up the last stand are heroes.
We will award them. We will honor them. We will make movies about their sacrifice.
But, they will not be around tomorrow to fight the Russians. It is a cold fact of war.
If they retreat and Russia takes the Russian provinces, it stops for a while. During that break, Ukraine makes a plea for membership in NATO. We put missiles back in Poland.
We talk tough for a couple of years.
Everyone lives.
I know they won’t make a movie about it, but the long term story plays out better.
Agreed...but the idea is to have less tombstones than the other guy.
Thanks for answering. I’m sure you’d agree that it’s a difficult decision to cede your territory and your countrymen in exchange for a perceived advantage later.
A suicide defense, as you call it, IS a defense. It may not always be the wisest one, but it is an option. For the Iwo Jimas or Okinawas of the Japanese, there is also a Thermopylae, an Alamo, an Admin Box at Kohima, a Chosin Reservoir or a Bastogne.
I don’t suggest we’d see one in Ukraine. But I do suggest that if the government decides to attempt to hold its territory, I wouldn’t begrudge them that right.
If the Mexicans there voted for it, the answer is YES. It’s what can happen if a country is over-run by unassimilated invaders. By my logic, if Maine, Texas or Vermont (as examples) want to vote to leave the US, they should be able to do that.
The only time a “suicide” retreat is “meaningful” is if they are covering the retreat of a much larger force and their equipment.
Of course, if you are stuck on an island and there are no boats coming to get you, there is not much choice.
Its Russian because Stalin shot, starved or sent millions to Siberia creating a population vacumn that he then send ethnic Russians into fill......
Without the support of the locals, even an irregular action will not work.
And we are not generally talking about the “Soviets” now. My guess is that a Russian annexation will not result in a blood bath the likes of which the Ukrainians are historically subjected to.
Do not misunderstand me...I am not suggesting that what Russia is doing is good or reasonable. I think it is criminal and illegal.
But no one is going to kick them out. At least not now.
However, if you are going to march on Moscow, it is better to wait until June. Its way too muddy. Just make sure you are done by the end of September.
Sometimes “Might Makes Right”....It has always been, and always will be...no matter what some pie in the sky pacifist may say.
That's no defense.
Uhhhh...Crimea was Russian from the time of Catherine the Great. Before that, Turkish. Before that, Venetian.
There's the key take away.
Thermopylae and the Alamo are two examples of a holding defense. In the former, the Spartans/Greeks held the Persians while the rest of Greece got their act together.
The Alamo was an example of holding out too long for rescue. Again, in the hopes that Houston would get his troops together.
They were both noble. Their heroes are equally dead.
There is no one coming to the rescue of the Ukrainians.
There is no “need” or “reason” for heroes.
And while Putin is a dictator, there is no indication his troops are, or will, behave badly when they are facing a retreating army.
The ability to save men and equipment to fight another day is paramount in this situation.
I would be the ratio of Ukrainian soldiers who really want to get it on with the Russian army is in the 1-5% range. You know, the same percentage of crazy people in any large organization.
Yes, and the Americans didn’t march in lockstep in open fields to get slaughtered. Which would be today’s equivalent of using tanks and trenches. They fought unconventionally. Thats the whole point. Tanks and trenches are guaranteed losers.
Agreed.
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