Posted on 04/06/2014 5:26:49 AM PDT by Kaslin
You said it. Also on the part of not all should have children, that is especially right, and I like to add that sometimes there is a reason that a some people can not have children, and the woman should not try to get pregnant by artificial insemination, or donor sperm. Lastly but least there is always adoption, although I admit that is not for everyone
The Census Bureau’s 2011 survey found that the median bachelor’s degree recipient will earn 85% more over the course of their careers than the median high school graduate.
My question for colleges is: “What is the cost per square foot on your most recent classroom additions, and dorms?”
And then: “WHY does someone seeking to learn about literature, engineering, or law need that kind of opulent facility?”
(The answer is that they are focusing on the federal student loan money, and have to look good to attract the ‘marks’).
I’d suggest that when the classroom cost per square foot is 2-10x that of the building the job will be in, and the dorm cost per foot is 2-10x the grad’s first apartment, something is wrong.
Unfortunately our community college is trying to become another unneeded 4 year school and they’re behaving like one. The first thing she has to do is take an orientation course so she can learn to juggle college and social life. She’s nearly 50 years old and hasn’t had or needed a social life in decades. The orientation course requires several school specific books that will cost hundreds of dollars.
And wait until graduation, and you’ll get such pomp and circumstance you’d think you were at Yale! I think the administrators are really doing it for their own egos.
There is also a trend to remove the “Community” from the name, so it becomes East Podunk College.
One thing that would immediately bring down higher education costs would be to make student load debt dischargeable in bankruptcy, just like credit card debt.
But you probably could have been a better the average ball player if you had devoted the time and energy.
The idea that you have to be a "star" to be in any field is a bit off. In sports they are only willing to pay you if you are a star or have star potential. In the real world this is not so.
For every "star" in the real world there are thousands of people who are "pretty good", "better then average", "average", "not bad" and "why oh why"?
High school students are pushed and pushed that the only way to go is to go to college. Posters reflecting this philosophy are all over every classroom and hallway. We all know that this is not the case, that excellent and honorable livings can be made in the "trades". Heck, I bet most of my repairpeople make a lot more than I do!
A lot of the reason that students are pushed into college--whether they are suited for it, whether that's what they want--has to do with the civil rights movement and the mindset of misguided (is there any other kind?) libs. Students were formerly tracked in schools according to tests and to their prior school achievement records. Those consistently not doing well in academic subjects such as chemistry were tracked into lower-level courses such as "Science Survey" and shop or similar courses. When they graduated, they could either go directly to work in the trades or were well-prepared to enter a trade school and get up and running to working in a short time. But along come the libs shouting "NO!!! Most of the students in the shop track are minorities! It's discrimination! Everyone MUST go to college, whether they're suited for it or not! Whether they want it or not!"
This, plus the colleges' greed for tuition, is how you came to stuffing college classrooms with students who really should not be there, who are just taking seats better occupied by serious students.
I remember when I was in grad school that I faced the prospect of having to go to a different university to take several courses not offered where I got my degree because so many of their seats, instructors, and resources were being taken up by REMEDIAL CLASSES. So, I asked them, which is a better bet to use your resources on? Socially promoted high school "grads" who are merely repeating high school courses labeled "college courses" or students who have legitimately gotten into undergrad college, graduated, passed stiff graduate entry exams and now seek to take graduate classes? They saw my point and I got the classes I needed at the same university after all.
Very close.....Aerospace Engineering. The curriculum was almost identical to Mechanical through the sophomore year. I took 2 semesters of Chemistry. They made the tests hard to weed out their pre-med majors, I think.
Wow! He must have left your house with some issues to contemplate. Good job. Sometimes, tough love helps.
My two kids did not qualify for FAFSA (Federal Student Aid) form because I make too much money. Yet I don't make enough to send them to a big-name college. So only one of them went (engineering degree) at a state university that I was 100% responsible for paying for and the other one went the technical school route, as I did.
I guess on the bright side, none of them had to pay back loans and they both have pretty decent jobs.
Here’s the problem: everyone at birth is given a certain percentage of “fast twitch” and “slow twitch” muscles. If you do not have a certain threshold of these “fast twitch” muscles you cannot be a baseball hitter. I happen to have very good depth perception and this enabled me to see the baseball well but I lacked the high complement of fast twitch muscles to enable me to get the bat around in time to hit it. Therefore, I could have spent every waking hour practicing and I would never achieve any level of proficiency at batting. And, no, I could not have been a pitcher, either. Same reason.
On another note, I vividly recall the words of the chairman of the engineering department at a major university. He noted that maybe 15 percent of the students at his school had the aptitude to handle the higher math to succeed in his school’s engineering curriculum.
The emphasis is well-placed; there is strong belief that mathematical abilities are in-born, i.e., there is a certain place in the brain which enables people to handle “high math” and if it’s not there, it’s simply not there (one cannot create a “talent” and that’s what it is). Therefore, if a person who lacks this ability wants to be an engineer, he can work his or her little head off and never be able to successfully graduate from an engineering school. If this were not so, then you could take anyone off the street at random and with enough coaching and self-motivation make him or her a nuclear physicist. No, it doesn’t work that way and one would be extremely naive to believe otherwise.
But, some folks on FR really believe in the “little engine that could.” Evidently, they believe in fairy tales.
As always:
Follow the money.
The world needs ditch diggers, too.
In my experience teaching at CC level, it is the best deal for those planning for a Bachelor degree, to get the Core Courses (First 2 yrs College) for a 4 yr degree needed to accomplish their goals...examples are Criminal Justice for pre law/State agency hierarchy/Sheriff or Educator etc, Bachelor of Nursing, or History Professor for finishing last two years at a Religious or Private University without liberalism.
The savings on those first two years will help keep them out of student loan debt. Some careers must have a 4 year degree, and we want those conservatives in charge... not at lower ranks of business/colleges/legal agencies or military etc.
Plus Community College offers several programs for trade certification and career paths... like EMT, CJ training for police officers, electricians, plumbers, auto mechanics and RNs. We should be pushing students to find a career suited to their intellect and gifts....not everyone is suited to 4-8 years of college.
Really? Because I see kids playing baseball all the time. In fact I see entire grades playing. Are these high percentages of “fast twitch” muscles so common that every kid in school has them?
And yeah there are some that are better then others and some that are real good but they can all hit and throw a ball.
there is strong belief that mathematical abilities are in-born, i.e., there is a certain place in the brain which enables people to handle “high math” and if it’s not there, it’s simply not there
Quite frankly I find people who try to push that kind of belief are the kind who have a desperate need to believe that they are "special". Whenever it is shown, as it often is, that they are not "special" and that Joe Blow can do what they do if he is willing to put in the effort they have screaming temper-tantrums.
But, some folks on FR really believe in the “little engine that could.”
And some people on FR believe in the "Only special people can do higher math" myth.
It is rather sad really.
Let's just say calculus tends to separate the wolves from the sheep...
Everything is relative, my dear. Yes, you see amateurs playing baseball. The players are facing mediocre (at best) pitchers. It’s when they are up against someone who can throw a ball 90 miles per hour and faster and is able to mix his pitches, i.e., introduce sliders, curve balls, change-ups, etc., that the demand for extra quick reflexes—that is to say, the need for the fast twitch muscles—comes into play.
So, what you’re seeing are unskilled kids playing against their peers. Proves nothing. And besides, you’re talking about sandlot baseball and I thought we were discussing aspirations to play the major leagues. No comparison, none at all.
As to your comments on mathematical abilities, I get the intimation that you are suggesting that I’m speaking from a position of someone who fancies himself skilled in math. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have two bachelors degrees, one in political science (I wanted to be a lawyer...that fell through) and economics, but I realized that I did not have the mathematical abilities to obtain a graduate degree in that subject. OTOH, I stand in awe of those who can do advanced math (I have a grand nephew who is getting a PhD in engineering next month; he is truly a genius at math).
If you want to direct your scorn to those who feel that they are above the grimy crowd, look at the engineers on FR. They are your target, if that’s your aim.
They do have a point, though. Very few people can do higher mathematics and if you choose to believe it’s just a matter of effort, you need to look into it more (talk to a mathematics or engineering professor). It’s a talent and one cannot do things for which he or she does not have the talent; otherwise, we could all be famous singers and actors if we just applied ourselves, according to your point of view. Effort counts but there are limitations imposed by innate ability.
I’ve said all I’m capable of saying. You obviously don’t agree, and that’s fine.
Regards.
Oh, one more thing. I need to give myself a little credit. My plans for law school fell through solely for lack of money. I found that I had the ability (I made a high score on the Law School Admission Test and was admitted to a prestigious law school). Sometimes you just gotta be more careful in selecting your parents.
High schools need to end at the tenth grade, and either a kid moves onto some technical school, some community college or gets a job with Burger King. This idea of twelve years being the magic number is where we’ve gone wrong.
He seemed like a reasonably intelligent person certainly he could have done whatever was necessary to get through the required coursework. Yeah he would actually have to study...but so did I.
Now would he have been a good engineer etc. That’s open to debate. Everyone performs to their gifts/abilities but this kid was not with an IQ below 100.
Not everyone is college material necessarily, but with some of the schlock degrees they issue these days you could give a degree to a potted plant.
You have to understand that the insert process for the desire to change the name of these institutions.
I will give you a couple of local examples
Community College of the Finger Lakes, it was changed by the locals to Community College For Losers
Monroe Community College was Monroe Comedy College
Onondaga Community College became Only Chance College. I attended here as an undergrad before going to Cornell. I will never forget one day I go into the can. While on the throne someone had scratched into the stall above the toilet paper roll...OCC diplomas. Take one.
The possibilities nationwide are beyond comprehension. The problem for these facilities is that they were named by politicians. When naming things, politicians are sooo stupid and never plan for how things will get twisted in general usage.
But nearly all of the community colleges have gotten mission creep and fancied themselves as a stepping stone to a four year institution. Which is what I used it for, and never graduated from the CC, just took the pile of transferable credits and went on with my academic career. Saved me and my parents a bucket of cash, but the overall graduation rate for the CC was probably not good, as my degree completion did not reflect in their stats although it should have because without the CC would have never made it to where I ended up.
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