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Salazar ‘Flips the Switch’ on First Large-Scale Solar Energy Project on Public Lands [Nevada]
U.S. Department of the Interior ^ | April 5, 2012 | Adam Fetcher

Posted on 04/14/2014 11:03:38 PM PDT by SatinDoll

PRIMM, Nevada – As part of President Obama’s all-of-the-above approach to energy, today Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar “flipped the switch” on the Enbridge Silver State North solar project, the first large-scale solar energy facility on U.S. public lands to deliver power to American consumers.

This milestone is in line with the administration’s broad commitment to expanding production of all sources of American made energy, including from renewable sources, such as wind and solar, which has doubled in the President’s first term, as well as domestic production of oil and gas resources, which have increased each year the President has been in office.

“This is a landmark day for solar energy and for the nation,” Salazar said at the dedication ceremony with state and company officials. “Silver State North was the first solar project we approved on public lands in Nevada and --18 months later -- the first of our priority projects to provide clean energy to the power grid. This is a model of industry and government working together to strengthen local economies, generating good jobs and affordable, reliable and sustainable power.”

The Interior Department has undertaken an unprecedented approach to permitting renewable energy on public lands. Prior to 2009, there were no solar energy projects permitted on public lands. Under Secretary Salazar and Bureau of Land Management Director Bob Abbey’s leadership, Interior has authorized 29 large-scale renewable energy projects on or involving public lands, including 16 solar facilities, 5 wind farms, and 8 geothermal plants. When completed, these projects will provide more than 6,500 megawatts of power to communities across the West, enough to power more than 2 million homes.

“Public lands provide Americans with vital mineral and agricultural resources, as well as recreational opportunities that help power local economies and generate jobs around the nation,” said Bob Abbey, Director of the Bureau of Land Management. “Today in Clark County, Nevada, we are adding solar energy to that public lands’ portfolio of benefits. This project symbolizes a new partnership between government and industry that can responsibly tap the immense renewable energy resources of this great state, provide clean, reliable power to homes and businesses, and open a new chapter in the beneficial use of our nation’s public lands.”

Located 40 miles south of Las Vegas, Nevada, Silver State North is a 50-megawatt plant that will use photovoltaic technology to generate enough power for about 9,000 Nevada homes. Developed by First Solar and owned by Enbridge, the project employed more than 380 construction workers during peak construction and 650 individuals over the course of the project. NV Energy has a power purchase agreement to sell the solar project’s electricity to the Nevada market.

By harnessing the area’s vast solar resources, the Silver State North facility generates electricity with no air emissions, no waste production, and no water use. The plant, using technology with the smallest carbon footprint of any PV solar system, displaces about 42,000 metric tons of carbon dioxide annually – the equivalent of taking 8,000 cars off the road. The project site is strategically located near a major transmission hub.

Constructed on 618 acres of public land managed by Interior’s Bureau of Land Management, the solar project underwent full environmental analysis and public review. The BLM worked closely with federal, state and local partners, members of the environmental and conservation community, and interested stakeholders to protect wildlife and advance this environmentally sound project. First Solar and the BLM worked in concert with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to develop a relocation/translocation plan for desert tortoises found on the site. The BLM also required a natural color palette for painted structures and controlled night lighting, designed to reduce visual impacts on the local community.

The Bureau of Land Management oversees more than 2.5 million acres in Clark County, Nevada, including over 1.1 million acres managed for conservation. This includes over 709,000 acres of habitat the BLM has designated primarily for the conservation of the threatened desert tortoise.


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Government; US: Nevada
KEYWORDS: blm; bundy; bundyranch; china; chinapower; chinese; clarkcountynevada; corruption; enbridge; enbridgeinc; energy; facism; fascism; firstsolar; firstsolarinc; harryreid; nevada; publiclands; reid; solar; solarpower
Read that last sentence: "... This includes over 709,000 acres of habitat the BLM has designated primarily for the conservation of the threatened desert tortoise."

Guess who owns the water rights to that land: I suspect it is the Bundy family!

The above is a Public Relations release from the BHO2 Administration dated back in the Spring of 2012. Yes, I know it is 2-years old, but this gives everyone an idea of how long this has been in the planning.

1 posted on 04/14/2014 11:03:38 PM PDT by SatinDoll
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To: SatinDoll
which has doubled in the President’s first term

So has the price of beef...

2 posted on 04/14/2014 11:09:13 PM PDT by Errant (Surround yourself with intelligent and industrious people who help and support each other.)
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To: SatinDoll
Water rights have always been a point of conflict in the west. We have 2 water rights from the state on our property, yet, the Feds will more than likely try to invalidate them through new regs. Private property means nothing to our new self appointed class of overlords.
3 posted on 04/14/2014 11:16:56 PM PDT by crazyhorse691 (Obama is just the symptom of what is destroying the U.S.)
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To: SatinDoll

How many ranchers lost their land for this?


4 posted on 04/14/2014 11:18:08 PM PDT by smoothsailing
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To: SatinDoll
"The Bureau of Land Management oversees more than 2.5 million acres in Clark County, Nevada, including over 1.1 million acres managed for conservation. This includes over 709,000 acres of habitat the BLM has designated primarily for the conservation of the threatened desert tortoise"

Given that cowpies delivered across the desert by cattle, promote turtle pop growth, one would expect that the BLM would pay Cliven Bundy to run his cattle across the local BLM allotments.

5 posted on 04/14/2014 11:22:02 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

Yup, seems tome that cowpies would draw in a lot of bugs for the poor turtles to munch on.


6 posted on 04/14/2014 11:43:47 PM PDT by Bobalu (Four Cokes And A Fried Chicken)
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To: smoothsailing

According to a poster at Market-ticker.org, forty-eight.

Also found this:

“There have been a lot of people criticizing Clive Bundy because he did not pay his grazing fees for 20 years. The public is also probably wondering why so many other cowboys are supporting Mr. Bundy even though they paid their fees and Clive did not. What you people probably do not realize is that on every rancher’s grazing permit it says the following: “You are authorized to make grazing use of the lands, under the jurisdiction of the Bureau of Land Management and covered by this grazing permit, upon your acceptance of the terms and conditions of this grazing permit and payment of grazing fees when due.” The “mandatory” terms and conditions go on to list the allotment, the number and kind of livestock to be grazed, when the permit begins and ends, the number of active or suspended AUMs (animal units per month), etc. The terms and conditions also list specific requirements such as where salt or mineral supplements can be located, maximum allowable use of forage levels (40% of annual growth), etc., and include a lot more stringent policies that must be adhered to. Every rancher must sign this “contract” agreeing to abide by the TERMS AND CONDITIONS before he or she can make payment. In the early 90s, the BLM went on a frenzy and drastically cut almost every rancher’s permit because of this desert tortoise issue, even though all of us ranchers knew that cow and desert tortoise had co-existed for a hundred+ years. As an example, a family friend had his permit cut by 90%. For those of you who are non ranchers, that would be equated to getting your paycheck cut 90%. In 1976 there were approximately 52 ranching permittees in this area of Nevada. Presently, there are 3. Most of these people lost their livelihoods because of the actions of the BLM. Clive Bundy was one of these people who received extremely unfair and unreasonable TERMS AND CONDITIONS. Keep in mind that Mr. Bundy was required to sign this contract before he was allowed to pay. Had Clive signed on the dotted line, he would have, in essence, signed his very livelihood away. And so Mr. Bundy took a stand, not only for himself, but for all of us. He refused to be destroyed by a tyrannical federal entity and to have his American liberties and freedoms taken away. Also keep in mind that all ranchers financially paid dearly for the forage rights those permits allow - - not rights to the land, but rights to use the forage that grows on that land. Many of these AUMS are water based, meaning that the rancher also has a vested right (state owned, not federal) to the waters that adjoin the lands and allow the livestock to drink. These water rights were also purchased at a great price. If a rancher cannot show beneficial use of the water (he must have the appropriate number of livestock that drinks and uses that water), then he loses that water right. Usually water rights and forage rights go hand in hand. Contrary to what the BLM is telling you, they NEVER compensate a rancher for the AUMs they take away. Most times, they tell ranchers that their AUMS are “suspended,” but not removed. Unfortunately, my family has thousands of “suspended” AUMs that will probably never be returned. And so, even though these ranchers throughout the course of a hundred years invested thousands(and perhaps millions) of dollars and sacrificed along the way to obtain these rights through purchase from others, at a whim the government can take everything away with the stroke of a pen. This is the very thing that Clive Bundy single-handedly took a stand against. Thank you, Clive, from a rancher who considers you a hero.”

-Kena Lytle Gloeckner”

When government ceases working for the people who pay their salaries, it is time for new management.


7 posted on 04/14/2014 11:46:02 PM PDT by SatinDoll (A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS BORN IN THE US OF US CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: SatinDoll

24 page report, including many maps. Silver State South will will run on three sides of Silver State North

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/nv/field_offices/las_vegas_field_office/energy/silver_state_south/desert_tortoise_translocation.Par.42954.File.dat/Final%20SSS%20Translocation%20Plan%20010714.pdf

October 31, 2013
FIRST SOLAR SELLS 250MW SILVER STATE SOUTH PROJECT TO A SUBSIDIARY OF NEXTERA ENERGY RESOURCES (sorry for the caps, it’s how the headline came)
http://investor.firstsolar.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=803293


8 posted on 04/14/2014 11:56:44 PM PDT by blueplum
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To: SatinDoll

On public land ?

Will they pay no property taxes?


9 posted on 04/15/2014 12:02:00 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: SatinDoll

How much does China own?


10 posted on 04/15/2014 12:44:45 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: SatinDoll; All

OH boy! 50 megawatts, we’re saved! and all it took was 5 square miles of land?

The coal fired plant in Jacksonville can produce 640 megawatts from each of its two generators and on an area of 1.5 to two square miles that includes a habitat area as well.

The saddest thing is that each and every one of those panels will need to be replaced in 10 years or less.


11 posted on 04/15/2014 3:16:34 AM PDT by mazda77
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To: SatinDoll

Reid’s political cunning lets him be directed by the INSIDERS, whose aim is to create (1) Chinese colonization of American land through unconstitutional purchase, and (2) create an energy and food famine to lower the standard of living of Americans for a comfortable merger with neighboring third world nations under the North American Union under the United Nations.

Reid is well protected by public opinion, molded by the INSIDER-controlled mass media. He’s thwarted FBI ivestigations more than once. He’s fe-man who can do whatever he wants with no consequences.

The man is a sociopath along with the Clintons, the Obama’, Pelosi, Reid...
http://www.westernjournalism.com/exclusive-investigative-reports/harry-reids-dirty-laundry/
http://www.americanmafia.com/inside_vegas/1-29-07_Inside_Vegas.html


12 posted on 04/15/2014 3:37:45 AM PDT by bronxville (Margaret Sanger - “We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population,Â)
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To: mazda77
The saddest thing is that each and every one of those panels will need to be replaced in 10 years or less.

Nope. Maybe 20 or 30 yrs.

13 posted on 04/15/2014 3:38:58 AM PDT by TangoLimaSierra (To win the country back, we need to be as mean as the libs say we are.)
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To: SatinDoll

Informative post. Thank you.


14 posted on 04/15/2014 3:44:14 AM PDT by uncitizen
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To: SatinDoll

Wow, a 50-megawatt plant.

That’s 50 MW nameplate.

The capacity factor for solar in Arizona, Nevada etc is about 19%. So it works out as a 10 MW plant.

Plus the electricity from it is going to be insanely expensive.


15 posted on 04/15/2014 4:34:06 AM PDT by agere_contra (I once saw a movie where only the police and military had guns. It was called 'Schindler's List'.)
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To: SatinDoll

That’s a great post! Thanks for sharing. It’s the best explanation of Bundy’s situation I’ve seen. And it comes from a rancher.


16 posted on 04/15/2014 5:51:03 AM PDT by smoothsailing
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To: TangoLimaSierra

At the very best in a lab. Outside with the heat and sand . . . They just don’t like blowing sand, and also long periods without rain will lend to silt buildup that the rain just wont wash off whenever it comes so that added layer also affects the output of each panel.


17 posted on 04/15/2014 5:52:41 AM PDT by mazda77
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To: Bobalu

Grazing animals, in general when well managed, greatly IMPROVE the land by increasing soil fertility. An not just from their poop, but from their behaviors as well.


18 posted on 04/15/2014 5:54:05 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: TangoLimaSierra

The other failure factor in that environment is the heat. Being that the cells are soldered together, I know from experience that the heat out there will start to create cold solder joints from the solder going to a semi fluid state, especially the low lead solders required for manufacturing today. I have a factory installed digital display in my truck in a little overhead center console hat I take out once a year to re-solder the surface mount solder joints so I can see the readout. It seems to fade every year during the Florida summers.

This could very well be an even bigger maintenance headache than the windmills.


19 posted on 04/15/2014 6:01:22 AM PDT by mazda77
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To: mazda77

The public has the mis conception that solar cells do better in a hot environment. Nothing could be further from the truth, yet our gov’t is full scale ahead on putting these “monuments to ignorance” in every desert environment they can steal.


20 posted on 04/15/2014 6:12:05 AM PDT by wrench
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To: SatinDoll

Thank you for that succinct explanation of Bundy’s situation, Satin...;-)


21 posted on 04/15/2014 7:54:32 AM PDT by EnigmaticAnomaly ("Nothing does more damage to the left than an honest election.")
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To: agere_contra

Solar power for individual homes, when used smartly and in concert with other energy sources such as wood burning cook stoves and small wind towers for running pumps - all of this on a farm - seemed to work well. I have seen homes with solar panels that fed a complex of heating tubes in a sand bed under a house and a water heater. Because they were farmers and generally went to bed shortly after sunset and arose with the sun, they did not need huge amounts of electricity. That seemed to work well for them. I cannot see this in suburbia or a city.

Solar will not suffice for large-scale power production, for example, replacing a 1100-megawatt nuclear power plant.


22 posted on 04/15/2014 8:09:18 AM PDT by SatinDoll (A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS BORN IN THE US OF US CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: TangoLimaSierra

Our neighbors roof panels crapped out at 15-years of age. They could hardly wait to get rid of them!


23 posted on 04/15/2014 8:10:46 AM PDT by SatinDoll (A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS BORN IN THE US OF US CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: SatinDoll; xzins; Ray76
“This is a landmark day for solar energy and for the nation,” Salazar said at the dedication ceremony with state and company officials. “Silver State North was the first solar project we approved on public lands in Nevada and --18 months later -- the first of our priority projects to provide clean energy to the power grid. This is a model of industry and government working together to strengthen local economies, generating good jobs and affordable, reliable and sustainable power.”

The Interior Department has undertaken an unprecedented approach to permitting renewable energy on public lands. Prior to 2009, there were no solar energy projects permitted on public lands. Under Secretary Salazar and Bureau of Land Management Director Bob Abbey’s leadership, Interior has authorized 29 large-scale renewable energy projects on or involving public lands, including 16 solar facilities, 5 wind farms, and 8 geothermal plants. When completed, these projects will provide more than 6,500 megawatts of power to communities across the West, enough to power more than 2 million homes.

Bump!

24 posted on 04/15/2014 1:20:07 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: SatinDoll; xzins; Ray76

“There have been a lot of people criticizing Clive Bundy because he did not pay his grazing fees for 20 years. The public is also probably wondering why so many other cowboys are supporting Mr. Bundy even though they paid their fees and Clive did not. What you people probably do not realize is that on every rancher’s grazing permit it says the following: “You are authorized to make grazing use of the lands, under the jurisdiction of the Bureau of Land Management and covered by this grazing permit, upon your acceptance of the terms and conditions of this grazing permit and payment of grazing fees when due.” The “mandatory” terms and conditions go on to list the allotment, the number and kind of livestock to be grazed, when the permit begins and ends, the number of active or suspended AUMs (animal units per month), etc. The terms and conditions also list specific requirements such as where salt or mineral supplements can be located, maximum allowable use of forage levels (40% of annual growth), etc., and include a lot more stringent policies that must be adhered to. Every rancher must sign this “contract” agreeing to abide by the TERMS AND CONDITIONS before he or she can make payment. In the early 90s, the BLM went on a frenzy and drastically cut almost every rancher’s permit because of this desert tortoise issue, even though all of us ranchers knew that cow and desert tortoise had co-existed for a hundred+ years. As an example, a family friend had his permit cut by 90%. For those of you who are non ranchers, that would be equated to getting your paycheck cut 90%. In 1976 there were approximately 52 ranching permittees in this area of Nevada. Presently, there are 3. Most of these people lost their livelihoods because of the actions of the BLM. Clive Bundy was one of these people who received extremely unfair and unreasonable TERMS AND CONDITIONS. Keep in mind that Mr. Bundy was required to sign this contract before he was allowed to pay. Had Clive signed on the dotted line, he would have, in essence, signed his very livelihood away. And so Mr. Bundy took a stand, not only for himself, but for all of us. He refused to be destroyed by a tyrannical federal entity and to have his American liberties and freedoms taken away. Also keep in mind that all ranchers financially paid dearly for the forage rights those permits allow - - not rights to the land, but rights to use the forage that grows on that land. Many of these AUMS are water based, meaning that the rancher also has a vested right (state owned, not federal) to the waters that adjoin the lands and allow the livestock to drink. These water rights were also purchased at a great price. If a rancher cannot show beneficial use of the water (he must have the appropriate number of livestock that drinks and uses that water), then he loses that water right. Usually water rights and forage rights go hand in hand. Contrary to what the BLM is telling you, they NEVER compensate a rancher for the AUMs they take away. Most times, they tell ranchers that their AUMS are “suspended,” but not removed. Unfortunately, my family has thousands of “suspended” AUMs that will probably never be returned. And so, even though these ranchers throughout the course of a hundred years invested thousands(and perhaps millions) of dollars and sacrificed along the way to obtain these rights through purchase from others, at a whim the government can take everything away with the stroke of a pen. This is the very thing that Clive Bundy single-handedly took a stand against. Thank you, Clive, from a rancher who considers you a hero.”

-Kena Lytle Gloeckner”

Great find!

Bump!


25 posted on 04/15/2014 1:24:35 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: SatinDoll; All

One more layer of the onion is peeled back...


26 posted on 04/15/2014 1:33:59 PM PDT by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
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To: Jim Robinson

This is all nothing more than appeasement towards the environmental wackos.

My father worked in the energy industry. He was a good source of information about what worked well for the large scale electrical grid.

Geothermal energy is fine except that it has natural-caused chemicals in its make-up that are extremely corrosive. Most, if not all, must be replaced frequently and that becomes expensive.

Dad used to refer to coal plants as ‘dirt burners’. Since he was a licensed nuclear engineer, one could say he was prejudiced!


27 posted on 04/15/2014 1:38:12 PM PDT by SatinDoll (A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS BORN IN THE US OF US CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: SatinDoll; xzins; Ray76

About Enbridge

Enbridge Inc., a Canadian company, is a North American leader in delivering energy and one of the 2012 Global 100 Most Sustainable Corporations. As a transporter of energy, Enbridge operates, in Canada and the U.S., the world’s longest crude oil and liquids transportation system. The Company also has a growing involvement in the natural gas transmission and midstream businesses, and is expanding its interests in renewable and green energy technologies including wind and solar energy, hybrid fuel cells and carbon dioxide sequestration. As a distributor of energy, Enbridge owns and operates Canada’s largest natural gas distribution company, and provides distribution services in Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick and New York State. Enbridge employs approximately 6,900 people, primarily in Canada and the U.S. and is ranked as one of Canada’s Greenest Employers, and one of the Top 100 Companies to Work for in Canada. Enbridge’s common shares trade on the Toronto and New York stock exchanges under the symbol ENB. For more information, visit enbridge.com

About First Solar, Inc.

First Solar is a leading global provider of comprehensive photovoltaic (PV) solar systems which use its advanced thin-film modules. The company’s integrated power plant solutions deliver an economically attractive alternative to fossil-fuel electricity generation today. From raw material sourcing through end-of-life module collection and recycling, First Solar’s renewable energy systems protect and enhance the environment. For more information about First Solar, please visit www.firstsolar.com.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

First Solar Sets Joint Venture in China

By BRIAN SPEGELE

Updated May 11, 2011 12:01 a.m. ET

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748703730804576314670023399848

excerpts:

BEIJING—U.S. solar-panel maker First Solar Inc. and China Power International New Energy Holding Ltd. said they will collaborate on solar-energy projects in China, the U.S. and elsewhere.

The arrangement helps First Solar gain access to China’s solar sector amid shaky conditions in Europe, the world’s leading solar market.

China Power “has a tremendous advantage and strength in operating in China, and we have a tremendous advantage and strength in technology but also in building utility systems,” Kevin Berkemeyer, First Solar’s China representative, said at a Tuesday news conference.

The companies will explore opportunities within China. First Solar also will assist China Power, a unit of China Power New Energy Development Co. 0735.HK +2.20% , to find investment opportunities in the U.S. and elsewhere. China Power has planned 2 gigawatts of projects for the domestic market. First Solar has 2.4 gigawatts planned in North America.

“We are very pleased to build an extensive and in-depth relationship with First Solar, a global leader in solar photovoltaic technology,” said Li Xiaolin, China Power’s chairwoman.


28 posted on 04/15/2014 1:49:07 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: All

First Solar:

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/firstsolar/index


29 posted on 04/15/2014 1:51:59 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: All

https://www.google.com/#q=China+Power+International+New+Energy+Holding+Ltd


30 posted on 04/15/2014 1:56:47 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: All

https://www.google.com/#q=reid+%22first+solar%22


31 posted on 04/15/2014 1:59:03 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: mazda77
At the very best in a lab. Outside with the heat and sand . . . They just don’t like blowing sand, and also long periods without rain will lend to silt buildup that the rain just wont wash off whenever it comes so that added layer also affects the output of each panel

Let's not forget about bird poop buildup...and bird carcass buildup (from birds fried by the solar panels).

32 posted on 04/15/2014 2:06:40 PM PDT by Night Hides Not (For every Ted Cruz we send to DC, I can endure 2-3 "unviable" candidates that beat incumbents.)
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To: SatinDoll

All of this for a 50-megawatt plant that’ll be shut down in about 10 years.


33 posted on 04/15/2014 2:12:46 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: <1/1,000,000th%

There may be more than that to this situation. We just do not know what it is yet.


34 posted on 04/15/2014 2:18:31 PM PDT by SatinDoll (A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS BORN IN THE US OF US CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: SatinDoll

Are they paying property taxes ?


35 posted on 04/15/2014 2:30:33 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: SatinDoll
I wonder how much of this Solar Energy Hardware has a MADE IN CHINA label on them.

I wonder if Harry Reid will condemn and have Interstate 15 ripped out of Nevada/Arizona/Utah to protect the desert tortoise and this solar energy project.

36 posted on 04/15/2014 2:32:23 PM PDT by topher (Traditional values -- especially family values -- which have been proven over time.)
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To: TangoLimaSierra
You have some replies to your post....

Kindly answer them...Thanks!!

37 posted on 04/15/2014 2:39:30 PM PDT by Osage Orange (I have strong feelings about gun control. If there's a gun around, I want to be controlling it.)
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To: SatinDoll
Our neighbors roof panels crapped out at 15-years of age. They could hardly wait to get rid of them!

15 yrs is pretty old tech. The newer ones like mine should last considerably longer.

38 posted on 04/15/2014 2:59:12 PM PDT by TangoLimaSierra (To win the country back, we need to be as mean as the libs say we are.)
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To: TangoLimaSierra

Oh, those were from the Nixon administration years and were removed sometime during the Reagan administration while I was in the Navy overseas.

I guess we could say, Stone Age tech!

The important factor here is that the homeowners were so disappointed in the performance that they’ve never tried the newer technologies.


39 posted on 04/15/2014 3:15:29 PM PDT by SatinDoll (A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS BORN IN THE US OF US CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Enbridge is big in oil pipelines (tar sands oil from Alberta, Canada) to lower Michigan. Several years ago their pipeline burst in the middle of the Kalamazoo River causing a massive oil spill where the spills downward into the river bed causing more environmental harm. It has cost billions to clean up and yet it still not done.

Enbridge has the rights to the oil pipeline that goes under the Mackinac Straits. Lets just say the locals are screaming about this one too.

Enbridge is here in my local community and this past summer natural gas lines have sprung leaks. You should see the mess that they create in the area.

Just a little bit of information of the environmental hazards that come with Enbridge in the uS. Hopefully this is not viewed off topic.


40 posted on 04/15/2014 3:57:45 PM PDT by hondact200 (Candor dat viribos alas (sincerity gives wings to strength) and Nil desperandum (never despair))
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To: SatinDoll
The important factor here is that the homeowners were so disappointed in the performance that they’ve never tried the newer technologies.

The efficiencies of then to now is significant so I can see how they might have been disappointed. I guess in 15 yrs mine will look like stone age but I have the peace of mind of saving a bunch on electric and would be little affected power-wise if the grid collapsed.

41 posted on 04/15/2014 3:58:49 PM PDT by TangoLimaSierra (To win the country back, we need to be as mean as the libs say we are.)
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To: Jim Robinson

BTTT


42 posted on 04/15/2014 7:58:43 PM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
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To: Jim Robinson; SatinDoll; P-Marlowe; Ray76

Why did prior to 2009 were solar projects not permitted on public land? I’m betting there were questions of ownership, and therefore, the Fed had to work out legal issues and deals with states and localities and companies to keep everyone happy.

A 300 kw traditionally fired plant in Wisc produced enough electricity to power 1500 homes for a year. A 280 kw solar plant in Cali, iirc, will power about 110,000 homes with the plant being run by about 60 kw of the power it generates. That is again, about half of the usable energy produced. A solar array on your house that would provide you the average 12,000 kwh annually that Americans supposedly use would cost in the neighborhood of 30,000 bucks. The Solar plant just mentioned cost approximately 3.5 billion of federal tax dollars, not counting anything anyone else put into it. That same amount of only the federal money would totally provide independent home power for 116,000 homes with never a power bill again for those individuals.

So, someone wants the centralized plant rather than individual independence, and, of course, the power companies do, and that is because of the enormous amount of money that goes from the consumer to the company. I don’t blame them. The Federal government is another issue, though. Where does the money go? Since it’s on “their property”, does the Fed now own the power plants? I’d say, of course they do. Why else fight to have them on “your” land. (Threatening the definition of “their” land is an absolutely deadly thing to them.)

In this case, we’re told we will have 6500 mw, and will power in the neighborhood of 2 million homes. At the rate of half, we should see about 3,250,000 homes powered. These 30 facilities are using up for their own power needs about a third of what they produce rather than a fourth.

What we learned in the solar plant that was priced in federal dollars is that individuals would be better served with independence by federal dollars. Instead, the Fed chose the route of monthly energy bills...and those probably going hugely to them + we’re sure they won’t lower the taxes they normally attach to energy bills. (So not only do they own your groceries, and the store, but they also tax you on them. Can anyone say ‘I owe my soul to the company store’?)

Forgive this run-on post. I’m just thinking out loud.

Essentially, what we have is a “super-state” made up of huge chunks of the other 50 states. It has no governor, legislature, judiciary, or population. It can continue adding to its size as the other states have rivers change course, president’s declare new nature preserves, and the EPA declare more of the common grasshoppers endangered.

It is, of course, unconstitutional, given the unique instructions in the Constitution for the District of Columbia’s creation, D.C. being the ‘seat of government’ that the Fed was supposed to “own” and oversee.

Why go to all that trouble if the Founders thought that the Fed owned as property owners everything not yet fully settled at that time?


43 posted on 04/16/2014 5:18:27 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: Jim Robinson; SatinDoll; P-Marlowe; Ray76

CORRECTED COPY:

Why prior to 2009 were solar projects not permitted on public land? I’m betting there were questions of ownership, and therefore, the Fed had to work out legal issues and deals with states and localities and companies to keep everyone happy.

A 300 kw traditionally fired plant in Wisc produced enough electricity to power 150000 homes for a year. A 280 kw solar plant in Cali, iirc, will power about 110,000 homes with the plant being run by about 60 kw of the power it generates. That is again, about half of the usable energy produced. A solar array on your house that would provide you the average 12,000 kwh annually that Americans supposedly use would cost in the neighborhood of 30,000 bucks. The Solar plant just mentioned cost approximately 3.5 billion of federal tax dollars, not counting anything anyone else put into it. That same amount of only the federal money would totally provide independent home power for 116,000 homes with never a power bill again for those individuals.

So, someone wants the centralized plant rather than individual independence, and, of course, the power companies do, and that is because of the enormous amount of money that goes from the consumer to the company. I don’t blame the POWER COMPANIES. The Federal government is another issue, though. Where does the money go? Since it’s on “their property”, does the Fed now own the power plants? I’d say, of course they do. Why else fight to have them on “your” land. (Threatening the definition of “their” land is an absolutely deadly thing to them.)

In this case, we’re told we will have 6500 mw, and will power in the neighborhood of 2 million homes. At the rate of half, we should see about 3,250,000 homes powered. These 30 facilities are using up for their own power needs about a third of what they produce rather than a fourth.

What we learned in the solar plant that was priced in federal dollars is that individuals would be better served with independence by federal dollars. Instead, the Fed chose the route of monthly energy bills...and those probably going hugely to them + we’re sure they won’t lower the taxes they normally attach to energy bills. (So not only do they own your groceries, and the store, but they also tax you on them. Can anyone say ‘I owe my soul to the company store’?)

Forgive this run-on post. I’m just thinking out loud.

Essentially, what we have is a “super-state” made up of huge chunks of the other 50 states. It has no governor, legislature, judiciary, or population. It can continue adding to its size as the other states have rivers change course, president’s declare new nature preserves, and the EPA declare more of the common grasshoppers endangered.

It is, of course, unconstitutional, given the unique instructions in the Constitution for the District of Columbia’s creation, D.C. being the ‘seat of government’ that the Fed was supposed to “own” and oversee.

Why go to all that trouble if the Founders thought that the Fed owned as property owners everything not yet fully settled at that time?


44 posted on 04/16/2014 5:32:45 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: SatinDoll

I don’t remember the public being asked about building this crap on our land.


45 posted on 04/16/2014 6:32:32 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: SatinDoll

Good post.


46 posted on 04/16/2014 10:43:30 AM PDT by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
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