Renewables Aren’t Enough. Clean Coal Is the Future

Wired.Com | March 25, 2014 | Charles C. Mann

[CedarDave]

FR is prohibited from posting from Wired.com, title and link only:

http://www.wired.com/2014/03/clean-coal/

[CedarDave]

The title is self-explanatory. Lengthy article on carbon capture and storage (CCS) with diagrams and graphs, China choking in emissions, why green energy will not be the entire solution for the rest of the century, and why coal will remain a fossil fuel source for the world, especially the third-world.

[Baynative]

Someone needs to find the courage to reverse Bill Clinton’s order making the vast clean coal reserves in Utah a National Monument.

[Gen.Blather]

To use it here would require completely dismantling the EPA branch of government.

The local power plant wanted to buy into a new coal fired facility so we’d get a cut rate on power. It was going to be built regardless. The Greenies went apesh*t. You’d have thought if we did it they’d all be shot the next day. I can’t remember seeing such hysteria. Locally we have the state government, the city government, the county government and a bunch of federal offices along with several colleges and state universities. There hasn’t been a Republican in office since after the Civil War. Needless to say the resolution was soundly defeated. Now our power costs are significantly higher. Go green...(/s)

[CedarDave]

I’d like to reverse EPA and its give-no-quarter regulations (and the Supreme Court which said CO2 could be considered a pollutant).

[Red Badger]

The COMMENTS’ are entertaining.
The liberal greenies are going berserk on this article..................

[MortMan]

“renewables” aren’t effective.

Clean coal may be part of the answer, but it will not be the whole answer.

[MUDDOG]

When the gas runs out, and you’re in the cold, who you gonna call? Clean coal!

[Gay State Conservative]

...China choking in emissions...

Boy,ain't *that* the truth.I've been to China several times.Several times *recently* (the last four years).Most of my travels were in the regions within a couple of hours of Hong Kong...the southeastern part of the country.I've heard it said that that's the most prosperous part of the country. The clearest days I ever saw there were 20 worse than the worst day I've ever seen in LA...and I've seen some nasty ones there.The same is true of Hong Kong...they get pollution from neighboring parts of mainland China.

For every reasonably (or very) clean coal fired plant that we shut down the Chinese open 20 of the dirtiest,filthiest plants imaginable.

[Gay State Conservative]

were 20 worse = were 20 times worse

[gunsequalfreedom]

When homeowners are allowed to install solar systems on their roofs and sell the energy to the grid at the same rate utility companies pay for electricity they supply to the grid a big part of the problem will be solved.

Someone tell me why I as a homeowner am not allowed to profit generating electricity?

Interject the profit motive for homeowners and watch the savings on electrical demand.

[gunsequalfreedom]

Total bunk that renewables are not effective.

[MortMan]

Please provide evidence of renewable energy being used in an economically effective large-scale energy production system. To exclude the economic side of the equation is dishonest.

(Although I should have specifically excluded hydroelectric)

[OriginalChristian]

Renewables will NEVER replace the base load requirements.

[Baynative]

The EPA is about the environment like the ACA is about health care. They are political strategies, not organizations working for the benefit of taxpaying citizens.

[chrisser]

When homeowners are allowed to install solar systems on their roofs and sell the energy to the grid at the same rate utility companies pay for electricity they supply to the grid a big part of the problem will be solved.

Someone tell me why I as a homeowner am not allowed to profit generating electricity?

Do you expect the water department to buy back gallon jugs full of water you got from collecting rain off your roof?

Think of it this way.

There is waste in transmitting electricity over long distance, both in line losses and in transformer efficiency losses.

The power company's not charging you for the KWH you actually use at the back end, they're charging you for the KWH they have to put in the front end to overcome all the losses, plus the amortized cost of the distribution network and it's maintenance.

That you can push back a couple kw at the use point (at what, 120v?) doesn't do them any good. Run an extension cord down the street at that voltage and see how much you get at the other end.

Now, if you can put out some power in the KV ranges the wires at the street are using, then maybe the power company would be interested. That's power they can at least send down the street a ways to your neighbors.

[dynoman]

Carbon capture was tried n a plant here in ND and not that many years ago. The conclusion was that it would take 1/3 of a coal plant’s output to run the carbon capture. I heard that straight from an engineer. So think about that for a second, mandate carbon capture and decrease coal power by 1/3. Then build a bunch of new plants running at 2/3rds non-carbon capture output to replace the 1/3 that was lost.

[CedarDave]

Carbon capture was tried n a plant here in ND and not that many years ago. The conclusion was that it would take 1/3 of a coal plant’s output to run the carbon capture. I heard that straight from an engineer. So think about that for a second, mandate carbon capture and decrease coal power by 1/3. Then build a bunch of new plants running at 2/3rds non-carbon capture output to replace the 1/3 that was lost.

The article points that out. Together with the building of new plants, you have to add in the additional coal mined to fire those plants, all of which contributes additional CO2 (mining plus transportation requires energy). Of course the whole premise of CO2 being the prime cause of so-called global warming or climate change needs to be reexamined. However, even if CO2 is marginalized by science, the Greenies are also looking at cows, oil and gas drilling, natural gas and other sources of methane as being even more dangerous to climate than CO2. Watch for that to be the next big environmental bugaboo.

[JimRed]

Total bunk that renewables are not effective.

Effective must necessarily include cost effective. Wind and solar do not yet qualify. When they do, You'll be right!

[gunsequalfreedom]

Effective must necessarily include cost effective. Wind and solar do not yet qualify. When they do, You'll be right!

Obviously, we need to define terms. I'm not talking about large scale solar. I'm sure we agree on the main points. I got off on a tangent.

[gunsequalfreedom]

Do you expect the water department to buy back gallon jugs full of water you got from collecting rain off your roof?

That analogy does not work but you made some interesting points. Do you see no benefit is homes being able to energize the grid at a rate that will pay homeowners at least something to do so?