Posted on 05/05/2014 7:04:59 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Sometimes idiots have no idea what they are talking about.
The founders did not give us a pure democracy because democracy always devolves to mob rule.
The only way to keep the feral government in check is to assure that the states are strong enough to keep the feral government from usurping powers beyond those enumerated to it. The senate was meant to be composed of representatives chosen by the state legislatures. The House was meant to be elected directly by the people.
No one part is supposed to be able to dictate to the others.
Disagree.
Senators were to represent the states hence their appointment by state legislatures until the 17th amendment was ratified.
As is pointed out, Senators do not represent the States as was the explicit purpose of the unamended constitution.
Absent the 17th Amendment David Dewhurst would be the junior senator from Texas. Bob Bennett would still be the junior senator from Utah. And Mitch McConnell, Lindsay Graham, Lamar Alexander, and Thad Cochrane would not be looking over their shoulders.
Totally disagree with you.....
[ Why don’t you try actually reading the Constitution sometime. The 17th is an abomination. ]
The 17th effectively “Neutered” people’s involvement in State Level politics and removed a point of interest when it came to elect state reps and state senators.
People are supposed to pay attention when they fill their state’s chambers and if they send some moron to Washington it would become a mandate for the state citizens to throw out the current crop of state senators, the 17th effectively Isolated the citizens away from state level elections and effectively turned the federal senate into manipulated chamber that used the mob tendencies of the people to override the state as an entity.
Just think, how much federal land would there be out west had the 17th not passed?
Yep. I challenge anyone to cite a single exception unless it is the City of Enoch or the Kingdom of Heaven where only the righteous dwell.
Most of the time, when someone makes a statement of this sort containing the words never, everybody or always, there are exceptions. Not here.
The structure of the design of our legislative system of government was to give power to the people in the lower house (Representatives were elected by the people) and power to the States (Senators were selected by the States). You don’t like the Electoral College and now you don’t like States having power in the legislative system. Are you really sure you LIKE the Constitution?
This would eliminate the winner take all method that (as democrats like to say) disenfranchises people who do not live in liberal urban strongholds which not only are largely inhabited by government dependents, but traditionally more susceptible to vote fraud.
The only way to keep the feral government in check is to assure that the states are strong enough to keep the feral government from usurping powers beyond those enumerated to it. The senate was meant to be composed of representatives chosen by the state legislatures. The House was meant to be elected directly by the people.
AMEN to what you said!
Like the people elected Obama?
Thanks for the ping!
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“... by having state legislators nominate U.S. Senate candidates
and still letting voters elect the state’s U.S. senators ...”
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That is actually quite interesting.
17th Amendment to U.S. Constitution
“The Senate of the United States shall be composed
of two Senators from each State,
elected by the people thereof...”
No mention there of “how” the names are to get on the ballots.
Agree. Novel idea, hadn’t thought of this particular angle before.
It would restore the States to their proper role and place in the Federal system, would incentivize people to pay more attention and be more involved in state-level elections, and would force a lot of Senators to defend their states against things like unfunded mandates.
And to those who are saying that it would keep the GOPe in power, I completely disagree. It would really incentivize the GOP grassroots (currently defined largely by the Tea Party) to bring about change at the state level, which is where most of our successes have actually been.
I’m all for it.
Not sure what you mean here but the 17th amendment needs to be repealed not worked around. Repealing the 17th would go a long way to correcting the problems we have in America today. It is the only way to re-establish state representation in the Federal Government.
The Indiana General Assembly would not have kept returning Lugar to Washington... they would have bounced him as soon as he started to turn left.
Repealing the 17th Amendment, and repealing the Income Tax, would do a lot to restore the Republic.
"Republic" means you don't directly elect Senators, BTW.
This is the first I've heard of this "soft repeal" idea. Unlike actually repealing the amendment, which is candyland fantasy, it's actually possible for a state with enough incredible douchebags in power to do this by changing state election law. This proposal crystallizes why the whole thing is retarded and anyone that supports it is either an enemy of freedom or someone that doesn't understand the constitutional ideals that supposedly matter so much to them.
Let me be the first but to state the proper response: Go F yourself, Greg. Why don't you try making this the idea the centerpiece of your next campaign and see how well it plays, dipstick.
I agree w Fuz. The senate was originally set up to represent the states. The House belongs to the people. In actuality, the house has the power of he purse
Section 1.
All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.
Section 2.
The House of Representatives shall be composed of members chosen every second year by the people of the several states, and the electors in each state shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the state legislature.
No person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the age of twenty five years, and been seven years a citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an inhabitant of that state in which he shall be chosen.
Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three years after the first meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent term of ten years, in such manner as they shall by law direct. The number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty thousand, but each state shall have at least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the state of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five, and Georgia three.
When vacancies happen in the Representation from any state, the executive authority thereof shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies.
The House of Representatives shall choose their speaker and other officers; and shall have the sole power of impeachment.
Section 3.
The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each state, chosen by the legislature thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote.
Immediately after they shall be assembled in consequence of the first election, they shall be divided as equally as may be into three classes. The seats of the Senators of the first class shall be vacated at the expiration of the second year, of the second class at the expiration of the fourth year, and the third class at the expiration of the sixth year, so that one third may be chosen every second year; and if vacancies happen by resignation, or otherwise, during the recess of the legislature of any state, the executive thereof may make temporary appointments until the next meeting of the legislature, which shall then fill such vacancies.
No person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the age of thirty years, and been nine years a citizen of the United States and who shall not, when elected, be an inhabitant of that state for which he shall be chosen.
The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no vote, unless they be equally divided.
The Senate shall choose their other officers, and also a President pro tempore, in the absence of the Vice President, or when he shall exercise the office of President of the United States.
The Senate shall have the sole power to try all impeachments. When sitting for that purpose, they shall be on oath or affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two thirds of the members present.
Judgment in cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States: but the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to indictment, trial, judgment and punishment, according to law.
Section 4.
The times, places and manner of holding elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each state by the legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by law make or alter such regulations, except as to the places of choosing Senators.
The Congress shall assemble at least once in every year, and such meeting shall be on the first Monday in December, unless they shall by law appoint a different day.
Section 5.
Each House shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members, and a majority of each shall constitute a quorum to do business; but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and may be authorized to compel the attendance of absent members, in such manner, and under such penalties as each House may provide.
Each House may determine the rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two thirds, expel a member.
Each House shall keep a journal of its proceedings, and from time to time publish the same, excepting such parts as may in their judgment require secrecy; and the yeas and nays of the members of either House on any question shall, at the desire of one fifth of those present, be entered on the journal.
Neither House, during the session of Congress, shall, without the consent of the other, adjourn for more than three days, nor to any other place than that in which the two Houses shall be sitting.
Section 6.
The Senators and Representatives shall receive a compensation for their services, to be ascertained by law, and paid out of the treasury of the United States. They shall in all cases, except treason, felony and breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at the session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any speech or debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other place.
No Senator or Representative shall, during the time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil office under the authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time: and no person holding any office under the United States, shall be a member of either House during his continuance in office.
Section 7.
All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills.
Every bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a law, be presented to the President of the United States; if he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the objections at large on their journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the bill, it shall be sent, together with the objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a law. But in all such cases the votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, and the names of the persons voting for and against the bill shall be entered on the journal of each House respectively. If any bill shall not be returned by the President within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law, in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their adjournment prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a law.
Every order, resolution, or vote to which the concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the same shall take effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the rules and limitations prescribed in the case of a bill.
Section 8.
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;
To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;
To establish post offices and post roads;
To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;
To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;
To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;
To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy;
To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;
To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;—And
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
Section 9.
The migration or importation of such persons as any of the states now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each person.
The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.
No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.
No tax or duty shall be laid on articles exported from any state.
No preference shall be given by any regulation of commerce or revenue to the ports of one state over those of another: nor shall vessels bound to, or from, one state, be obliged to enter, clear or pay duties in another.
No money shall be drawn from the treasury, but in consequence of appropriations made by law; and a regular statement and account of receipts and expenditures of all public money shall be published from time to time.
No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.
Section 10.
No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.
No state shall, without the consent of the Congress, lay any imposts or duties on imports or exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it’s inspection laws: and the net produce of all duties and imposts, laid by any state on imports or exports, shall be for the use of the treasury of the United States; and all such laws shall be subject to the revision and control of the Congress.
No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay.
A good reason to move back to Indiana. After seeing the Senate in action the last 20 years, Zoeller’s idea makes sense to me. If not the outright repeal of the 17th Amendment.
I agree with Jefferson on this one, and would like to see a full repeal of the 17th.
This Texan would like to know how you base that assertion.
Bull. They might have replaced him a rat when the rats took the State House, I don't how it worked if the 2 Houses were divided.
You people need to get it though your heads that state legislators are POLITICIANS who are no more likely to be conservative nor to oppose the federal government having a lot of power than members of Congress (many of whom used to be state legislators!). This idiotic scheme would give you the exact opposite of what you want, and that's so breathtakingly obvious that I really have trouble seeing how any intelligent person could not realize that. Put down Mark Levin's book and take a glance at the real world.
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