Why Germans Love Russia

NYT ^ | May 5, 2014 | Clemens Wergin

[wetphoenix]

BERLIN — Like most foreign-policy experts, I was shocked by Russia’s annexation of Crimea and its continuing “soft invasion” of eastern Ukraine. Can such a naked land grab really be happening now, in 21st-century Europe?

But Russia’s actions were not the only surprise. If you have followed the German debate about the Ukraine crisis, you have witnessed another strange phenomenon: a parade of former politicians and public figures going on TV to make the case for Russia.

According to these august figures — including former Chancellors Gerhard Schröder and Helmut Schmidt — NATO and the European Union were the real aggressors, because they dared to expand into territory that belonged to Moscow’s legitimate sphere of interest. And it seems part of the German public agrees.

You thought that Germans were the champions of international law and a rules-based world order? Think again.

[WhiskeyX]

The people of Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are not impressed with irredentism and spheres of influence.

[Nifster]

He and his fellow experts are shocked that a communist behaves like a communist

[wetphoenix]

Are Germans commie or what?

[RitchieAprile]

Putin? not a Communist. he is a Believer (or wants Russians to think he is). he is an opportunist. like .. Tony Soprano.

[DesertRhino]

Germans communist? Ever hear the names Friedrich Engels? Karl Marx?

[wetphoenix]

And it is a big question is it good or bad in that neughborhood which is not particularly welcome to girl scouts and hippies.

[Nifster]

Germans get their gas from commits....they are useful idiots

Perhaps you need to remember what communists are all about

[Nifster]

Putin is first, last, and always KGB. Do not under estimate the nature of the beast. Perhaps you need to refresh your memory

[wetphoenix]

I’m fully aware of their existance, but for many FReepers here it is Russia that is a birthplace and a source of communism and it seems like nothing can change this perception.
I think the main problem is that they aren’t the ones who has a clue that communism is.
I think Germans are more fluent on this matter and has better awareness of ‘virtues’ of communism than most of these American self-proclamed anti-communists.

[pepsionice]

The German issue goes back to a history situation. It’s a society of cultures and classes....not a true nation of people unto itself. Until the early 1800s....it was 300 separate states, empires, city-states, and free-states. Even today, if you travel around....you tend to notice that you feel like you are in different spheres of influence as you go from one state of Germany to another.

Then we come to intellectuals and their sphere of influence. Most of the state-run TV news media is controlled by the intellectuals. There’s an intense battle going on now because the governor’s board of the state-run TV ‘mafia’ is overly controlled by the states, not the people (meaning the influential intellectuals). The court stepped in last month to order the board to be remade and heavily influenced (more so) by people instead of German states....giving them roughly three years to think of a new scheme.

When you watch public forums or chatter on state-run TV....the intellectual crowd will have heavy representation and try to make arguments logical. Love for Russia? The general argument would be that Russia does what’s in its national interest, and why would you meddle with that? The same argument would work for building a wall around Berlin and limiting access to free Berlin....but you can’t never suggest such in a forum run by the intellectuals.

Are the German intellectual crowd communists? I’d say if you asked to list their political priorities for a society and state to exist....to name ten items....well, most of the ten would fall into the same list as a communist. They might be shocked that their labels are that obvious, but then....they don’t really think much for themselves. Yeah...an intellectual without thinking abilities. Hard to imagine, but...that’s the reality of this mess.

[DesertRhino]

Well stated,

[wetphoenix]

~The German issue goes back to a history situation. It’s a society of cultures and classes....not a true nation of people unto itself. Until the early 1800s....it was 300 separate states, empires, city-states, and free-states. Even today, if you travel around....you tend to notice that you feel like you are in different spheres of influence as you go from one state of Germany to another.~

I know dozens of Germans and travelled there, too. I know who these people are.

~Are the German intellectual crowd communists? I’d say if you asked to list their political priorities for a society and state to exist....to name ten items....well, most of the ten would fall into the same list as a communist. They might be shocked that their labels are that obvious, but then....they don’t really think much for themselves. Yeah...an intellectual without thinking abilities. Hard to imagine, but...that’s the reality of this mess.~

In fact traditional German values are 100% anti-Communist. It doesn’t mean they are that much pro-Freedom but authoritarism is not = communism.
It doesn’t also mean they can’t be predominately culturally liberal.

[JennysCool]

It’s very simple. When America is aimless and stupid, the rest of the world just does whatever the hell it wants to do.

[BurningOak]

Probably their inner Nazi coming out to cheer Putin.

[nathanbedford]

As one who lives in the heart of the post first world war communist republic in Bavaria which actually existed although for only a short time, I think we should examine not geographical locations from which communism has sprung but we should better examine the human heart to discover the impulses which lead to the utopian vision.

One could say that England was geographical homeland of communism, as Marx and Engels lived there when they wrote their manifestoes. Equally, one can argue that France is the true birthplace of communism as we saw in the revolution with all of its excesses being since played out endlessly around the world.

But I think the impulse is part of human nature. The Germans I live among are not much different than the suburban Americans I grew up with decades ago. They are products of their culture which is shaped to a great extent by their media and I have posted several times over the years the leftward bias of the German press. Even college professors with whom I debate here in Germany have a myopic view of America which is, I believe, largely the product of limited data input.

In the absence of a full factual picture, even the whitest of human hearts is vulnerable to the siren of the utopian dream. Whittaker Chambers's classic book "Witness" describes and idealist's disillusionment with the world addressed with the promise of communism as a great motivator causing him to join the party. It is human nature to rationalize evil if we can believe that it is in the cause of a greater good. Germans are no different than French revolutionaries or American Communist Party members-or most Americans who do not educate themselves. The temptation is eternal:

If you bite of the Apple you will gain knowledge and you will not surely die.

[Kit cat]

GREAT POST, as usual always look forward to your insight!!!! Never enough of your thoughts as far as I am concerned!!!!

[nathanbedford]

I believe the impulse toward communism is not geographical in origin but inherent in the human psyche. It is a question of arrogance masked as benevolence. Give me the power and I will cure the world's ills and we will will surely have utopia.

This impulse is not unique to the Teutonic heart but it is found in Russian Jews, Cuban peasants, Venezuelan army officers, Chinese masses. It is endemic to the human condition. As I have said elsewhere on this thread, the siren is always the same: bite of the Apple and you will gain knowledge and power and you will not surely die.

We as conservatives should spend our time analyzing the history, as you have done, to understand that impulse in its historical and cultural context to deal with it in ways speak to this misguided drive for the utopian dream.

[Smokin' Joe]

Perhaps you need to remember what communists are all about

Yes, consolidating wealth in the hands of a few, forcefully if need be, so they can dole it out in equal dribbles to the masses who are told to glory in how 'equal' they are.

[gleeaikin]

I would guess that there is also still the hidden Fascist strain in a lot of Germans.