Posted on 05/05/2014 10:49:54 PM PDT by wetphoenix
BERLIN — Like most foreign-policy experts, I was shocked by Russia’s annexation of Crimea and its continuing “soft invasion” of eastern Ukraine. Can such a naked land grab really be happening now, in 21st-century Europe?
But Russia’s actions were not the only surprise. If you have followed the German debate about the Ukraine crisis, you have witnessed another strange phenomenon: a parade of former politicians and public figures going on TV to make the case for Russia.
According to these august figures — including former Chancellors Gerhard Schröder and Helmut Schmidt — NATO and the European Union were the real aggressors, because they dared to expand into territory that belonged to Moscow’s legitimate sphere of interest. And it seems part of the German public agrees.
You thought that Germans were the champions of international law and a rules-based world order? Think again.
(Excerpt) Read more at mobile.nytimes.com ...
“NATO and the European Union were the real aggressors, because they dared to expand into territory that belonged to Moscow’s legitimate sphere of interest.
1. NATO did not offer membership to Ukraine or Georgia.
2. Regarding the EU, shouldn’t Ukraine have the right as a sovereign nation, to enter the economic relationships it desires ?
Indeed, the percentage of Germans who don't buy into the US government propaganda about the Ukraine is about 40%. That is very encouraging.
Socialist might be a better term for the German zeitgeist. Communism may owe much to Marx and Engles but it took a British aristocrat to help it along.
Always remember that the German workers socialist party was better known to us as The NAZI party. Another thing to recall is what a pre WW2 American ambassador said of the Germans that they were carnivorous sheep.
So, basically you're saying Germans are a bunch of Freepers... ;-)
Rosh and Gomer! Look it up! This is prophecy unfolding...
If you are trying to suggest that Russians have a slave mentality I won’t argue with you....The KGB has a particularly nasty reputation and if you don’t know about it you ought to go read some. Putin is a communist. He is KGB. He desires a return to the glory days of Stalin and the pogroms
No country is impressed with irredentism and spheres of influence...unless it's the one making the claim.
Sudetenland, 1938. Crimea, 2014.
Absolutely, and when they turn the EU and their rotten deal down they shouldn't have Globalists like Obama and Soros fund, instigate, and support a violent coup against their government.
Your stated “coup” is a joke and Russian propaganda.
That propaganda has been dealt with numerous times on here. He was displaced by the legislative assembly legally.
Here is the real recent history of the Russian incursion and annexation of Crimea.
From Heritage foundation... http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/3150796/posts?page=1
“On February 28, Russian troops, aided by pro-Russian local militia, occupied important sites across the Crimean Peninsula under the pretext of “protecting Russian people.” Now Crimea is under Moscow’s de facto control and the Russian parliament has voted to annex the region into the Russian Federation. The failure of the Obama Administration’s Russian “reset,” the unilateral disarming of Europe, and the U.S. reduction of forces and disengagement from Europe have led Russia to calculate that the West will not respond in any significant way. The Administration can demonstrate America’s commitment to its NATO allies and support for the Ukrainian people by bolstering the defenses of NATO countries in the region, lifting restrictions on energy exports to reduce Europe’s dependence on Russian natural gas, and enacting meaningful sanctions.
After three months of mass street demonstrations, the Ukrainian people succeeded in ousting their corrupt and incompetent president, the Kremlin-backed Viktor Yanukovych. On February 22, the Ukrainian parliament acted in favor of the people it represents by granting amnesty to all political prisoners, bringing back the constitution of 2004 (which reduces the powers of the president), and announcing an early presidential election in May.[1]
This was more than Russian President Vladimir Putin was willing to tolerate. On February 28, Russian troops, aided by pro-Russian local militia, violated Ukraine’s territorial integrity by occupying important sites across the Crimean Peninsula under the pretext of “protecting Russian people.” Soon after Russia’s invasion, an illegitimate referendum took place on March 16 to allow the people of Crimea a vote to determine whether they wanted to join the Russian Federation. This illegal referendum was denounced by the countries of the G-7 as well as the member states of NATO and the European Union (EU). Furthermore, it took place without international monitors and under armed occupation.
The outcome of this dubious referendum was obvious from the start. Over 96 percent of voters backed Crimea’s leaving Ukraine and joining Russia. Keeping in mind that this referendum took place under the watchful eye of thousands of Russian troops in Crimea, the outcome was not a surprise to many”
By the time they held that phony impeachment "vote" the coup was already a fait accompli. The key event was two days before when the rump parliament of 227 MPs out of the total 450, which were basically all opposition members, voted to order the police and military to stand down leaving government personnel utterly defenseless against the thousands of firebomb throwing Neo-Nazis that surrounded the capital building. Under those circumstances any members who weren't loyal to the coup and failed to vote to impeach took their life into their own hands. That's not in any way democratic, fair, or legal. It would be a complete joke if there weren't so many lives at stake.
Why are you so adamant in support of Obama/Soros/and the sodomite EU's plot in Ukraine? What do you think their goals are in that country?
To the first part of your response I would direct people to read a real analysis of the situation by the Heritage Foundation and to avoid the AlexJones, Ron Paul Forum conspiracy crap.
...
From Heritage foundation... http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/3150796/posts?page=1
“On February 28, Russian troops, aided by pro-Russian local militia, occupied important sites across the Crimean Peninsula under the pretext of “protecting Russian people.” Now Crimea is under Moscow’s de facto control and the Russian parliament has voted to annex the region into the Russian Federation. The failure of the Obama Administration’s Russian “reset,” the unilateral disarming of Europe, and the U.S. reduction of forces and disengagement from Europe have led Russia to calculate that the West will not respond in any significant way. The Administration can demonstrate America’s commitment to its NATO allies and support for the Ukrainian people by bolstering the defenses of NATO countries in the region, lifting restrictions on energy exports to reduce Europe’s dependence on Russian natural gas, and enacting meaningful sanctions.
After three months of mass street demonstrations, the Ukrainian people succeeded in ousting their corrupt and incompetent president, the Kremlin-backed Viktor Yanukovych. On February 22, the Ukrainian parliament acted in favor of the people it represents by granting amnesty to all political prisoners, bringing back the constitution of 2004 (which reduces the powers of the president), and announcing an early presidential election in May.[1]
This was more than Russian President Vladimir Putin was willing to tolerate. On February 28, Russian troops, aided by pro-Russian local militia, violated Ukraine’s territorial integrity by occupying important sites across the Crimean Peninsula under the pretext of “protecting Russian people.” Soon after Russia’s invasion, an illegitimate referendum took place on March 16 to allow the people of Crimea a vote to determine whether they wanted to join the Russian Federation. This illegal referendum was denounced by the countries of the G-7 as well as the member states of NATO and the European Union (EU). Furthermore, it took place without international monitors and under armed occupation.
Now, to your direct question...
“Why are you so adamant in support of Obama/Soros/and the sodomite EU’s plot in Ukraine?”
The EU plot is a figment of your imagination, as is the Soros and sodomite fantasy.
I am adamant in support of the Ukrainian people to decide their own fate without Russian agents, special forces and external Russian propaganda. I am adamantly opposed to a Russian dictator for life, subverting the sovereign nation of Ukraine, including illegally annexing its sovereign territory..
CIA, FBI agents 'advising Ukraine government': report
The EU plot is a figment of your imagination
Nigel Farage Is Right: It Was the EU, Not Russia, Which Provoked the Ukraine Crisis
Van Rompuy: If The Public Doesn't Want EU Expansion, 'We Do It Anyway'
as is the Soros
Soros heavily invested in Ukraine crisis
and sodomite fantasy.
‘Gay rights’ must be pushed by all EU states: report passed in European Parliament today
“Why did Obama send the CIA and the FBI to support the coup junta in Kiev?”
Your question is misplaced. There was no coup/junta in Kiev. A Russian stooge violated Ukrinian law and was legally displaced by the UK. government. Also, there were no CIA in Ukraine at that time. Your source claims unidentified sources lol.
(The EU plot is a figment of your imagination)
I was correct. An EU plot is a figment of your imagination. You source on this is also faulty. Ukraine voluntarily considering an Agreement with the EU...is no a plot or a coup. Do you support Ukraine’s right to voluntarily associate or make economic relationships with who it wishes? Or does Russia get to violate Ukraine’s sovereignty again?
“Soros plot”
Soros, Koch Brothers, Soros...Koch bros.
Investment into a country is not a plot or conspiracy.
(Sodomite fantasy)
Here you are a quarter correct. The West and the EU are pusing for homo rights. This is a travesty. But it has nothing to do with a plot or conspiracy, although Putinistas seem to buy into that.
What we have here is simple naked aggression by Russia, illegally annexing the Crimea and now attempting to provoke instability by using Russian agents and special operations units inside a sovereign country.
An EU plot is a figment of your imagination. You source on this is also faulty.
Van Rompuy: If The Public Doesn't Want EU Expansion, 'We Do It Anyway'
So Rompuy was misquoted?
There was no coup/junta in Kiev.
All those thousands of firebomb throwing Neo-Nazis in Kiev attacking the duly elected government could have fooled me.
Do you support Ukraine’s right to voluntarily associate or make economic relationships with who it wishes?
Yes, and when they turn down a rotten deal by the Globo-Marxist sodomite EU they shouldn't have their government overthrown by thousands of firebomb throwing Neo-Nazis.
The West and the EU are pusing for homo rights. This is a travesty. But it has nothing to do with a plot or conspiracy,
It has everything to do with it. If shows character and intent. If Obama and the sodomite EU are degenerate and evil enough to teach homosex to five years old they are more than capable of launching an immoral and illegal war against innocent Ukraine.
Let’s start with this one.
“Why did Obama send the CIA and the FBI to support Kiev in putting down the uprising in Eastern Ukraine in the past few days?”
Your link to that stated unnamed and thus unconfirmed sources.
And the Russians have agents and special operations in Ukraine, so it is legitimate for us to advise the Ukrainians. So, yes i totally support that. But I don’t believe Obuma has the gonads for that, so I do not believe it. Come up with a source.
(There was no coup/junta in Kiev.)
“All those thousands of firebomb throwing Neo-Nazis in Kiev attacking the duly elected government could have fooled me.”
Irrelevant and I doubt there were a thousand Nazis.
Be specific. You stated coup or junta. That implies a military style takeover. It was the government of Ukraine that legally displaced Putin’s puppet for his illegal fleecing of the country and other activities. This was a legal action, there was no forced military coup or junta.
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