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MH17 disaster creates dilemma for Putin over backing Ukraine's rebels
Guardian (UK) ^ | Friday 18 July 2014 15.07 EDT | Julian Borger and Luke Harding

Posted on 07/18/2014 11:26:52 PM PDT by Zhang Fei

It is already clear from Friday's UN security council meeting that if the rebels are found to have carried out the outrage with a Russian weapon, Moscow will find itself more isolated than at any time in its recent history. Nobody around the council table spoke up in support of Churkin.

The concerted western response is to build the circumstantial case against the Russian-backed separatists while awaiting an international inquiry. If that investigation confirms the early suspicions, one western option would be to declare the rebel Donetsk People's Republic (DNR) a terrorist organisation, said Ben Judah, the author of Fragile Empire: How Russia Fell In and Out of Love with Vladimir Putin.

"Putin's greatest worry is that [the US] Congress will deem the DNR a terrorist organisation, responsible for the worst attack on a civilian airliner since 9/11, which would make Russia a state sponsor of terrorism.

"He will do anything possible to avoid that wrath, while not admitting anything," Judah said.

(Excerpt) Read more at theguardian.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: mh17; russia

1 posted on 07/18/2014 11:26:52 PM PDT by Zhang Fei
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To: Zhang Fei

“...one western option would be to declare the rebel Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) a terrorist organisation,”

They will just change their name like ACORN did. In the world of leftists, one man’s terrorist is another’s community organizer.” (or so I paraphrase)


2 posted on 07/18/2014 11:46:39 PM PDT by outofsalt
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To: Zhang Fei

Well, Putin supports Iran and Cuba. I know there are FReepers who think he’s a really cool dude, but that should tell people he supports terror.


3 posted on 07/18/2014 11:47:32 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: Zhang Fei
They would call them terrorists even if it was an accident ?

That would mean the Ukraine (Russian airliner) and the US (Iranian airliner) are also terrorists. Clearly the UN has lost its mind.

4 posted on 07/18/2014 11:57:31 PM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: Zhang Fei

Good thing we’ve never done anything like that.


5 posted on 07/18/2014 11:58:25 PM PDT by marron
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To: Zhang Fei
Naw.... many here think its Obama’s fault...

I am sick of Conservatism being equated with hatred of Obama.

Unfortunately, far to many good intentioned people who claim to be Conservative will blame the current occupant of the WH with causing their morning fart.

Conservatism is an idea of Constitutionally limited government that I believe was divinely inspired, its a philosophy and road a map of a course of action that will ultimately benefit everyone in this great country.

The knee jerk reaction that it all O’s fault is just as stupid as it was all Bush's fault.

It seems to me there are fewer and fewer ways to describe oneself anymore. I'm leaning toward the theory that both the left and the right are simply fans of their particular team, as is a person following sports. They are FANatics, their team can do no wrong, the other guy is the devil.

Guess the bottom line is that we are a nation/world of idiots....

6 posted on 07/19/2014 12:01:16 AM PDT by montanajoe
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To: montanajoe
They are FANatics, their team can do no wrong, the other guy is the devil.

The other guy is the devil. Our team is too fuzzy and muddled and unprincipled to do anything about it.

7 posted on 07/19/2014 12:04:42 AM PDT by marron
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To: outofsalt

Well, sarcasm aside, if the DNR were labeled a terrorist group, and then Russia is designated as a ‘state sponsor of terrorism’, that has quite a few negative consequences for Russia, such as the following which I gleaned off Wikipedia:

“The sanctions which the US imposes on countries on the list are:

1. A ban on arms-related exports and sales.
2. Controls over exports of dual-use items, requiring 30-day Congressional notification for goods or services that could significantly enhance the terrorist-list country’s military capability or ability to support terrorism.
3. Prohibitions on economic assistance.
4. Imposition of miscellaneous financial and other restrictions, including:

Requiring the United States to oppose loans by the World Bank and other international financial institutions;
Lifting diplomatic immunity to allow families of terrorist victims to file civil lawsuits in U.S. courts;
Denying companies and individuals tax credits for income earned in terrorist-listed countries;
Denial of duty-free treatment of goods exported to the United States;
Authority to prohibit any U.S. citizen from engaging in a financial transaction with a terrorist-list government without a Treasury Department license; and
Prohibition of Defense Department contracts above $100,000 with companies controlled by terrorist-list states.”

I have little doubt that Russia doesn’t want to find itself on that list; to put it mildly, it’s bad for business.


8 posted on 07/19/2014 12:10:20 AM PDT by AnAmericanAbroad (It's all bread and circuses for the future prey of the Morlocks.)
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To: marron
Good thing we’ve never done anything like that.

The Vincennes mistakenly shot down an Iranian passenger jet while engaged in the legitimate activity of preventing Iran from sinking tanker traffic in the Gulf. The Russians shot the MH17 down while trying to conquer half of a neighboring country via black ops.

9 posted on 07/19/2014 12:12:58 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: elhombrelibre

Communists have always supported terror.


10 posted on 07/19/2014 12:25:00 AM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (Great vid by ShorelineMike! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOZjJk6nbD4&feature=plcp)
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To: justa-hairyape
They would call them terrorists even if it was an accident ?

I believe it was an accident, no one wanted this plane shot down.

However, it is a bit similar to the drunken driver who runs down a child in an intersection..no, she did not set out to kill a child...but still..she is the one who was drinking and driving.

I'm glad I was not the one that pressed the launch button :-(

Prayers up for the poor souls who had loved ones aboard the plane....

11 posted on 07/19/2014 12:33:53 AM PDT by Bobalu (Israel is the most long-suffering and peace loving nation on Earth.)
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To: Bobalu
Prayers up for this horrible tragedy. Whatever happened to the Ukrainians that accidentally shot down a Russian Civilian aircraft ?
12 posted on 07/19/2014 1:03:12 AM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: Zhang Fei
MH17 disaster creates dilemma for Putin over backing Ukraine's rebels

What's this "backing" crap?
Putin recruited, trained, provided arms, transportation and continuing supplies to these so-called Ukrainian "rebels," most, if not all of whom are Russia-Russians.

There are actually people in the outside world who are unaware of that?

Incidentally, has anyone ever seen a cogent and insightful strategic explanation for why Russia decided that, what the hell, and invaded and annexed the Crimean peninsula?

13 posted on 07/19/2014 1:07:14 AM PDT by publius911 ( Politicians come and go... but the (union) bureaucracy lives and grows forever.)
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To: publius911

....” has anyone ever seen a cogent and insightful strategic explanation for why Russia decided that, what the hell, and invaded and annexed the Crimean peninsula?”......

Easy...payback... and because he could.


14 posted on 07/19/2014 1:09:23 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww

Crimea has a different history and different ethicity than the Ukraine. It was never part of the Ukraine until Krushchev redefined some boundaries in the 1960s (I think).

But Putin stole it back because he could.


15 posted on 07/19/2014 1:25:28 AM PDT by LadyDoc (liberals only love politically correct poor people)
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To: AnAmericanAbroad
....."and then Russia is designated as a ‘state sponsor of terrorism’, that has quite a few negative consequences for Russia"......

LOL...and the difference is:


16 posted on 07/19/2014 1:35:52 AM PDT by caww
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To: LadyDoc

Obama is simply using Crimea.....he’s miffed Putin checkmated him bigtime, and this in full view of the International Stage.

The he used political leverage on other countries to oppose Russia’s move. ..and still is doing so.

Crimea had been Russia for centuries.....Krushchev “gifted” it to Ukraine, the people had no choice whatsoever. According to his daughter it was a personal gesture toward his favorite republic... “He was ethnically Russian, but he really felt great affinity with Ukraine.” ..... He married a Ukrainian woman and considered Ukraine “one of his native lands,” Khrushcheva says.


17 posted on 07/19/2014 1:50:49 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww

Obama has the battered spouse syndrome from Putin!


18 posted on 07/19/2014 3:03:24 AM PDT by Dr. Ursus
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To: Zhang Fei
The Vincennes mistakenly shot down an Iranian passenger jet while engaged in the legitimate activity of preventing Iran from sinking tanker traffic in the Gulf. The Russians shot the MH17 down while trying to conquer half of a neighboring country via black ops.

Beyond that, the main difference was, the Vincennes's dead bodies were floating in the water, as opposed to crashing through roofs into kitchens or hiding under upturned seats.

19 posted on 07/19/2014 3:19:47 AM PDT by cynwoody
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To: Zhang Fei

I don’t know why Putin just doesn’t roll in the tanks and be done with it. Every one knows who’s calling the shots there.


20 posted on 07/19/2014 6:08:12 AM PDT by Husker24
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To: Dr. Ursus

....”Obama has the battered spouse syndrome from Putin!”...

LoL..that certainly comes into play...along with Obama’s Chicago thuggery.....add to the mix his inability to be more than a fund raiser and community organizer.... (which is why he cannot act independently from a reluctant EU, nor does he know how to.)....Doesn’t take much to recognize who is going to blink first along the way.


21 posted on 07/19/2014 12:33:59 PM PDT by caww
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