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2 california counties ask to form separate state
AP The Big Story ^ | August 28, 2014 | Juliet Williams

Posted on 08/29/2014 3:07:12 AM PDT by lbryce

Representatives of two counties in far Northern California petitioned state officials Thursday for the right to form a 51st state called Jefferson, formally asking state lawmakers to vote on their proposal.

Modoc and Siskiyou counties, which share a border with Oregon and have a combined population of about 53,000, submitted petitions from their county governments to the secretaries of the state Assembly and Senate after filing a petition complaining about a lack of representation to the secretary of state. "

(Excerpt) Read more at bigstory.ap.org ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: 2moresenators; 51ststate; democratscandals; dissolution; stealingcongress
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Representatives of two counties in far Northern California petitioned state officials Thursday for the right to form a 51st state called Jefferson, but I don't see the even the most infinitesimal modicum for consideration of their proposal. I am sure there are alternate legal approaches other than seeking permission from State officials for these counties to attempt to break away. But this being an unprecedented circumstance, it no doubt will be a long, arduous legal road ahead for any sort of progress made on the matter.

The bottom line is that it is rather obvious that the underlying, fundamental dynamics for these two counties to seek the creation of their own state is a a direct result of Obama, his policies, his desire to create as much havoc, dysfunction and upheaval in whatever way he can. His policies, especially regarding immigration, has directly impacted the political ramifications by these two counties in consideration of this move.

1 posted on 08/29/2014 3:07:12 AM PDT by lbryce
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To: lbryce
The filings were the first step in building a legal case that supporters believe will allow them to secede from California. They say the U.S. Constitution allows a region to petition the government for secession. If lawmakers ignore the petition, Jefferson proponents say it will give them standing to file a lawsuit.

Sue in what venue? Article IV Section 3 gives state legislatures the power to veto the creation of new states from their territory. The courts have nothing to say about it.

New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

2 posted on 08/29/2014 3:37:21 AM PDT by SeeSharp
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To: lbryce
I am sure there are alternate legal approaches other than seeking permission from State officials for these counties to attempt to break away.

No, there isn't. The US Constitution is very clear on that.

3 posted on 08/29/2014 3:58:19 AM PDT by Doug Loss
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To: lbryce

I think in general....the public has come to realize that one-size-fits-all in terms of state governments...doesn’t work.

I could see a reason to open up a split season....move to seventy-five states...dump the necessity for US senators...and eliminate several methods from which the Supreme Court throws itself into state matters.

Anyone who lives in California will tell you that the current state government is dysfunctional and unable to represent regular state residents. It’s a lobbyist-government and geared toward wealth redistribution more than anything else.


4 posted on 08/29/2014 3:59:41 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: Doug Loss
No, there isn't. The US Constitution is very clear on that.

There is one other document, The Declaration of Independence. Use only as a last resort, and expect violent push back from the PsTB, but it is the ultimate, get out of tyranny permission slip from God.

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation..."

5 posted on 08/29/2014 4:05:21 AM PDT by Sirius Lee (All that is required for evil to advance is for government to do "something")
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To: pepsionice
“Article IV Section 3”......

Puts an end to that “opportunity”. The ba$tards in Washington have tied everything tightly to remain in control of everyone else. Can't have any dissension now, can we?

6 posted on 08/29/2014 4:08:32 AM PDT by DaveA37
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To: Sirius Lee

The Declaration of Independence has nothing to do with trying to create a new state from the territory of an existing one. You can use it as a moral justification for seceding from the US, or for overthrowing the current government, but it has no legal authority.


7 posted on 08/29/2014 4:11:26 AM PDT by Doug Loss
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To: SeeSharp
New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

It appears, to me, that it would be SEPARATE from California.

8 posted on 08/29/2014 4:28:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Doug Loss
You can use it as a moral justification for seceding from the US, or for overthrowing the current government, but it has no legal authority.

Sorry; they want to STAY in the US; but SECEDE from Californicate!

9 posted on 08/29/2014 4:30:52 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Doug Loss
I stand corrected. I hereby declare that I was in error when suggesting there might be alternate legal approaches for these two counties to leave the State of California and create their own State. The US Constitution makes it very clear that such a move is forbidden.
10 posted on 08/29/2014 4:32:04 AM PDT by lbryce (Barack Obama:Misbegotten, Bastard Offspring of Satan and Medusa.)
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To: lbryce

Four more Democrat Senators?


11 posted on 08/29/2014 4:32:26 AM PDT by jmaroneps37 (Conservatism is truth. Liberalism is lies.)
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To: Elsie

Aw, hell....let Oregon have them. They’re all the same anyhow. A couple of more looney-toon jurisdictions added to a looney-toon state won’t make much difference.


12 posted on 08/29/2014 5:12:50 AM PDT by gimme1ibertee (When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.)
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To: Elsie
New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

It appears, to me, that it would be SEPARATE from California.

The meaning is: "...no new State shall be formed or erected within what had previously been the jurisdiction of any other State..."

In other words: No new State may be formed on territory hitherto within the jurisdiction of any other State.

Regards,

13 posted on 08/29/2014 5:44:52 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: Sirius Lee

Our current constitution is our second constitution, the Articles of Confederation was our first.

And of course we adopted our second and current constitution in an unconstitutional way, since the Articles of Confederation required unanimous consent of the states to amend it.

The constitution was adopted after only 9 of 13 states approved it.

So there is precedent...


14 posted on 08/29/2014 6:01:25 AM PDT by ChronicMA
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To: SeeSharp

what arguments did W VA and NH from MA make to make their new states?

Don’t know what most of east CA doesn’t form their new state either, and while they’re at it maybe the 3 counties in the south east of my state Miami, Broward and Palm for their new state too


15 posted on 08/29/2014 6:47:12 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: ChronicMA

NH broke from MA, W, VA broke from VA, curious as to what arguments they used to form their new state


16 posted on 08/29/2014 6:48:49 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: lbryce
I am sure there are alternate legal approaches other than seeking permission from State officials for these counties to attempt to break away.

Not under the Constitution, no.

17 posted on 08/29/2014 6:50:16 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: Sirius Lee
There is one other document, The Declaration of Independence.

I think they want to remain a part of the U.S. so I don't see were the Declaration of Independence has any relevance.

18 posted on 08/29/2014 6:52:09 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: manc
what arguments did W VA and NH from MA make to make their new states?

West Virginia separated from Virginia at the start of the Civil War. Being an area largely without slaves and with strong Union sentiments, they made no "argument", they just did it.

When the Virginia legislature voted on an "Ordinance of Secession", the delegates from the northwestern counties voted roughly 2-to-1 against it. Then, when the ordinance was ratified by a popular vote, the northwestern counties again voted against it -- by a roughly 2-to-1 margin.

Whereupon a convention of the northwestern counties was called in Wheeling in June, 1861 and they voted to secede from Virginia and apply for statehood in the Union. Statehood was granted in 1863.

History of West Virginia

19 posted on 08/29/2014 6:59:39 AM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: Ignorance on parade.)
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To: manc

West Virginia’s statehood was an act of conquest by a foreign power. New Hampshire was a colony before independence.


20 posted on 08/29/2014 6:59:42 AM PDT by SeeSharp
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To: lbryce

There is already a Break-up California bid on the ballot, I believe.

There were more than enough signatures, on the “Break up California into 6 states” bid.

I think that is going to be voted on. Already.

No?


21 posted on 08/29/2014 7:02:40 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: manc

Nh and Maine broke away from MA before the formation of the Union.


22 posted on 08/29/2014 7:04:06 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (Ebola: Death is a lagging indicator.)
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To: manc
what arguments did W VA and NH from MA make to make their new states?

New Hampshire was never a part of Massachusetts. I think you're confusing it with Maine, and that partition was approved by the Massachusetts legislature.

As for West Virginia, when Virginia joined the Confederacy they formed their own legislature loyal to the Union. That legislature was recognized by Congress, voted to partition, and Congress approved.

23 posted on 08/29/2014 7:04:44 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg

thank you to all who replied


24 posted on 08/29/2014 7:06:08 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: Vermont Lt

I stand corrected, thanks


25 posted on 08/29/2014 7:06:29 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: manc

Actually, I went and looked it up. NH had been self governed since 1760. They were not really part of Mass. Maine was.

So, I actually correct myself.


26 posted on 08/29/2014 7:10:40 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (Ebola: Death is a lagging indicator.)
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To: Vermont Lt

LOL thanks.


27 posted on 08/29/2014 7:11:23 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: pepsionice

“Anyone who lives in California will tell you that the current state government is dysfunctional and unable to represent regular state residents. It’s a lobbyist-government and geared toward wealth redistribution more than anything else.”

That’s the best description of what we have that I have seen. And further, what it means that at least 40% of our state’s population are not being represented comprising at least 70% ( probably more like 80%) of the land area. “One man, one vote” is largely responsible for where things have gone.


28 posted on 08/29/2014 8:28:28 AM PDT by vette6387
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To: alexander_busek

When the state of California goes bankrupt and is forced to revert to territorial status, there will be a opportunity to admit parts of it as separate states - provided that they can demonstrate fiscal solvency.


29 posted on 08/29/2014 8:37:59 AM PDT by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: manc

And Maine seceded from Massachusetts in 1820 to form a new state.


30 posted on 08/29/2014 8:42:46 AM PDT by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: jmaroneps37

Do the math. One more state not two more.

Then do some research. Those two counties are more red than most red states.

Modoc County, California - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modoc_County,_California

Modoc is a strongly Republican county in Presidential and congressional elections. It is the most Republican county in California. The last Democrat to win a majority in the county was Lyndon Johnson in 1964.

Federally, Modoc County is in California’s 1st congressional district, represented by Republican Doug LaMalfa.[31]

In the state legislature Modoc is in the 1st Senate District, represented by Republican Ted Gaines,[32] and the 1st Assembly District, represented by Republican Brian Dahle.[33]

On November 4, 2008 Modoc County delivered the most lop-sided vote in favor of John McCain of any county in California, with 67.9% of voters opting for the Republican. The county also voted 74.2% in favor of Proposition 8 which amended the California Constitution to ban same-sex marriages; only Kern and Tulare counties voted in higher proportion, both opting for the Proposition with 75.4% of the vote.[34]

Siskiyou county is next to Modoc re conservatives.


31 posted on 08/29/2014 9:37:25 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (If you don't Donate to Free Republic. Shame on you! Freep Loaders are scum!)
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To: lbryce

Starting to think we should consider this in North Idaho.


32 posted on 08/29/2014 10:36:48 AM PDT by Dr. Thorne ("Don't be afraid. Just believe." - Mark 5:36)
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To: alexander_busek

“In other words: No new State may be formed on territory hitherto within the jurisdiction of any other State.” . . .”without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress”

Appears it can happen but needs approval at all levels.


33 posted on 08/29/2014 11:47:08 AM PDT by Hulka
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To: ChronicMA

“And of course we adopted our second and current constitution in an unconstitutional way, since the Articles of Confederation required unanimous consent of the states to amend it.”

They didn’t amend it, they repealed and replaced it.

Good thing, too, the US was falling apart.


34 posted on 08/29/2014 11:50:30 AM PDT by Hulka
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To: manc

“NH broke from MA”

Learn your history. NH was one of the original 13 colonies. Maine was part of Massachusetts and in 1820 was made a separate state.

Steven from Maine.


35 posted on 08/29/2014 11:54:15 AM PDT by Steven Scharf
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To: alexander_busek

Any ‘meaning’ is parsed by the legislature.

The ‘words’ are quite plain.


36 posted on 08/29/2014 11:54:26 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Steven Scharf

Sorry, to add on to the pile. I did not realize others had corrected you.

As to the issue of the thread, although they could go through the process, I don’t think the US Congress would ever approve of creating a state with just 53,000 people.

“Modoc and Siskiyou counties, which share a border with Oregon and have a combined population of about 53,000”


37 posted on 08/29/2014 11:59:27 AM PDT by Steven Scharf
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To: lbryce; GeronL
Modoc and Siskiyou counties, which share a border with Oregon and have a combined population of about 53,000

Barking moonbats want 2 Senators and a House Rep. for 53,000 people?

Go screw.

38 posted on 08/29/2014 12:09:47 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (ISIS has started up a slave trade in Iraq. Mission accomplshed, Barack, Mission accomplished.)
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To: a fool in paradise

To be fair the state would have the same population as Wyoming and be bigger than several NE states. This idea is really old, I wish them best of luck. That said, no matter what they think, such a move needs approval by California legislature and US Congress.

Not going to happen. West Virginia did it, but that was done with arms in hand and with Union army backing, these guys are not going to war over this.


39 posted on 08/29/2014 12:39:46 PM PDT by BurningOak (Live Free or Die)
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To: lbryce

They’re NOT going to cut California up.

California gives 50 some odd electoral votes to Democrats every election cycle.

They’re NOT going to give that up.


40 posted on 08/29/2014 1:33:28 PM PDT by Tzimisce
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To: Doug Loss

How would you ever get agreement to let them in as a State? That would give you the power of two U.S. Senators for a mere 53,000 people. A great deal and everyone would want to do it.


41 posted on 08/29/2014 1:36:52 PM PDT by kaehurowing
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To: kaehurowing

if every county had 2 Senators....


42 posted on 08/29/2014 1:37:23 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: lbryce
The bottom line is that it is rather obvious that the underlying, fundamental dynamics for these two counties to seek the creation of their own state is a a direct result of Obama, his policies, his desire to create as much havoc, dysfunction and upheaval in whatever way he can. His policies, especially regarding immigration, has directly impacted the political ramifications by these two counties in consideration of this move.

The desire for a State of Jefferson goes back to the 1930s.


43 posted on 08/29/2014 1:50:58 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (Democrats: the Party of slavery to the immensely wealthy for over 200 years.)
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To: Doug Loss
The US Constitution is very clear on that.

Very clear on a lot of things, so what. We have the king we have long awaited for.

1Sa 8:5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.

1Sa 8:6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.

1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

44 posted on 08/29/2014 1:54:05 PM PDT by itsahoot (Voting for a Progressive RINO is the same as voting for any other Tyrant.)
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To: Doug Loss
but it has no legal authority.

Can't use that one, belongs to Al Gore, No Controlling Legal Authority.

45 posted on 08/29/2014 1:56:05 PM PDT by itsahoot (Voting for a Progressive RINO is the same as voting for any other Tyrant.)
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To: lbryce

They should let Eastern California in on it.


46 posted on 08/29/2014 4:07:55 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: lbryce
I am sure there are alternate legal approaches other than seeking permission from State officials for these counties to attempt to break away.

Article IV Section III of the U.S. Constitution states the following: "New States maybe admitted by the Congress to this Union, but no State can be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State without consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned, as well as of the Congress."
47 posted on 08/29/2014 5:44:19 PM PDT by TheFourthBranch
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To: lbryce

It seems that there’s a real weariness among people in the country of having their lives and property controlled by the criminals, communists, perverts and parasites who predominate in the urban areas. A simplification perhaps, but I’ve come to regard large segments of American society as TWANLOC. It’s no longer fixable folks.


48 posted on 08/29/2014 6:02:50 PM PDT by VR-21 (Next Stop, Willoughby.)
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To: BurningOak

“To be fair the state would have the same population as Wyoming and be bigger than several NE states.”

Need to check your state pops. Wyoming is 582,000 people. These two counties would be 53,000 people. That make Wyoming ten times the size of this propeosed state.

You are correct that it would be about the same size as Massachusetts and larger than four of the other five states. Maine is larger, but size really does not matter in creating states.


49 posted on 08/29/2014 9:28:25 PM PDT by Steven Scharf
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To: lbryce; fieldmarshaldj; AuH2ORepublican; BillyBoy; Clintonfatigued; NFHale

The only way the “good” counties of Cali could ever be freed from the Sacramento regime is by getting semi-violent about it, demanding, rather than asking. I doubt many people have the will for such a thing, at least not at this point. If Cali continues along the path it’s on....who knows.


50 posted on 08/29/2014 9:50:03 PM PDT by Impy (Think for yourself)
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