To Vaccinate or Not To Vaccinate?

it seems the dispute is raised over the 12 month age of the infant. Why not just wait to two or three or even four years old? Does that matter?

It matters a lot, actually.

There is a balancing act between vaccinating the infant as soon as possible to teach its immune system how to respond to the disease, and waiting until maternal antibodies that interfere with vaccination clear out of the infant's body sufficiently to allow the vaccine to work.

Infants are born without immune systems, which develop as they grow. You want to vaccinate them as soon as possible to train their immature immune system to recognize deadly diseases so that if they are exposed to those diseases, they have the best chance possible at being able to fight them off.

Maternal antibodies that infants receive from their mothers during gestation and nursing degenerate over time. So, even though maternal antibodies against measles may not be sufficient to protect the infant from dying of measles if it is exposed, they are sufficient to interfere with the measles vaccine. So the infant is vaccinated at 12 months, to give time for maternal antibodies to clear. Until it is vaccinated, however, it is at risk of being exposed to potentially fatal measles. As long as everyone around that infant is vaccinated, that child remains safe. But let one person incubating measles walk through Disneyland, and you happen to visit the same day--you may very well see your infant end up in ICU fighting for its life.

If you wait until a child is 3 or 4 years old before giving the measles vaccine, you are unnecessarily prolonging the time that the child could be exposed to measles (which can kill or permanently disable) at a time when its immune system is still highly vulnerable and not quite capable of fighting off a serious disease.

People with measles are contagious for a couple of days before the symptoms appear. They remain contagious for over a week. You do not have to be physically near them to catch measles--it spreads through the air, and remains in the air for hours after a sick person has been present.

If you didn’t notice, the title of the thread is “To Vaccinate or Not to Vaccinate.” My posts or Spam as you call it are meant to further the discussion.

The source of the statement made by William Thompson-CDC Whistleblower is his press release. Here’s the Unscientific link to the whole thing. http://www.morganverkamp.com/august-27-2014-press-release-statement-of-william-w-thompson-ph-d-regarding-the-2004-article-examining-the-possibility-of-a-relationship-between-mmr-vaccine-and-autism/

Be sure and pay attention to the part where he says its safe to vaccinate and feel free to trust the Corrupt CDC. If you make the choice to just “drink the Kool-Aid” that’s fine. I on the other hand make the choice to do my own research and CNN, NBC, ABC aren’t much help with that. They got the memo about the Media blackout.

This is an outright lie-”They want as many kids as possible to die.” Perhaps you have been hanging out with Brian Williams.

Parents and other Free Americans like me turn to Free Republic to discuss the issue and to provide information for fellow Freepers that might not be readily available because our Free Press isn’t really so free anymore.

Here is another unscientific link for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wwDPcNdxJQ A youtube video of a Congressional Hearing isn’t scientific now is it? Does it add to the Discussion? In my opinion it does as it illustrates the corruption at the highest levels of the CDC.

It also serves as documentation for people who are concerned about the autism epidemic. In my opinion when the rate of autism has risen from 1 in 10,000 in 1980 to 1 in 88 in 2013 there is obviously a problem. If that doesn’t concern you, you are free to stick your head back in the sand and continue to get those Government mandated immunizations.
After all, what do those stupid “Anti-vaccine” parents who say they watched their normal child change immediately following a vaccine know? Just because they witnessed a change in their child, child was speaking and functioning at normal levels, got vaccinated and was permanently changed-what do they know right?

Free Americans ought to be concerned when their right to make their own medical decisions is threatened by an uninformed public and a government that is corrupt.

Thank God and Jim Robinson for “pro-life, pro-family, pro-small government, pro-defense conservative forum.”

So did childbirth.

1963 was still a statistically safe time to have a baby. Antibiotics, sterile surgical suites and an understanding of prenatal care were all important.

And the 1/3 was for all cause mortality. Prior to antibiotics a simple scratch could kill. Infected teeth killed. Hangnails could kill.

None of which negates the statistic that, in 1963, the odds of dying from measles was about 1.5/100,000. Post measles infections were controlled with antibiotics and as it turns out, vitamin A status is very important when you have measles. If you’re deficient in vitamin A your trip will be a bumpy one in comparison to your sibling who ate their carrots like a good boy.

So to imply that death rate from measles today would be 1/3 is hyperbole of the tallest order. Even in the 1910’s the death rate only approached 15/100,000.

Mash here: (this one has most childhood disease death rates back to 1900)

http://images2.cafemomstatic.com/images/user/gallery/post_179439_1251302392_med.jpg?imageId=16319933

You do not advance a discussion by posting anti-science hooey.

The proponents of anti-vax want children to die.

There is absolutely NO scientific rationale for wanting children to be exposed to diseases that can kill them. Furthermore, even if you don’t care about your children enough to vaccinate them, OTHER people care about THEIR children, and don’t want THEIR children endangered by YOUR failure to protect YOUR children.

That’s one of the reasons the anti-vax movement is so horrific: because it doesn’t only kill or seriously injure the children of the anti-vaxxers, it kills and disables children whose parents never agreed to expose them to those deadly vaccine-preventable diseases.

You might fool yourself that you’re doing your own research, but unless you know how science works, and you know how to access and interpret original research, you aren’t researching anything. All you are doing is carrying the water for those radical leftists who want all of humanity dead. Have you ever fact-checked any of those anti-vax sites—as in read the original research papers that are indexed in PubMed? Do you even have a clue how to read or interpret a scientific paper?

I doubt it. It takes years of study to learn to understand science. The fact that you can’t tell the difference between “Age of Autism” and a legitimate scientific website is a pretty good indicator that you have no clue about real science.

I know people like you are resistant to reason, logic, and facts, and that it is an utter waste of time to try to educate you. However, I will stand against the deadly misinformation that you try to propagate.

Where did you obtain your statistic:

With no mass vaccination, measles has repeatedly killed (!) around 30% of identifiable populations throughout history. MILLIONS DIED.

I am not trying to weigh in as pro- or anti- vaccine. However, I don’t buy that stat.

I lived thru measles before their was a vaccine; I contracted them—a “good case” that did pose some complications, but no way was there a 30% mortality rate...in fact, parents wanted their elementary school aged children to contract them because contracting them as a child was so much easier than as an adult and fewer complications.

Wikipedia lists the mortality rate as follows:

Measles affects about 20 million people a year,[1] primarily in the developing areas of Africa and Asia.[3] It resulted in about 96,000 deaths in 2013 down from 545,000 deaths in 1990.[7] In 1980, the disease is estimated to have caused 2.6 million deaths per year.[3] Before immunization in the United States between three and four million cases occurred a year.[5] Most of those who are infected and who die are less than five years old.[3] The risk of death among those infected is usually 0.2%,[5] but may be up to 10% in those who have malnutrition.

VaxTruth.com says this:

....Also true, however, is that of those 3-4 million cases, only about 450 people died each year from it in the years before the vaccine.

I think facts are really important when discussing science. Can you please source your 30% mortality rate?

You state again, “The proponents of anti-vax want children to die.” THIS IS A LIE! Proponents of anti-vax want people to do their own research and quit listening to the LIES perpetrated by our government and shills like you.

You state, “There is absolutely NO scientific rationale for wanting children to be exposed to diseases that can kill them.” I would say to you there is NO scientific rationale for injecting children with substances that have been proven to cause increased risk of autism to protect them from an itchy uncomfortable rash and a fever that most people recover quickly from. Autism or possible death or a rash, let me see, I think autism is worse and as a free American I have the right to make healthcare decisions for my family after evaluating the risks and the benefits. I don’t live in China where vaccinations are mandatory.

People like you want to shut people like me up with insults and derogatory comments. You do your best to shut down free speech and vilify anyone who doesn’t comply with your corrupt government mandates. You obviously know nothing about me when you put me in the “radical leftist” column.

Speaking of radical leftists, you are taking a radical leftist position when you advocate mandatory immunizations and forced compliance.

As for your insults, “I know people like you are resistant to reason, logic, and facts, and that it is an utter waste of time to try to educate you.” I would ask you, have you “educated” yourself regarding corruption of the data that you are relying on? The CDC Expert-Scientist, William Thompson ADMITTED that the CDC science has been manipulated and that they covered up the evidence that MMR increased the risk of autism. What does he know? Perhaps the document that is 34 pages long and has all the admission of guilt and corruption, the communication between high level CDC personnel and the evidence of the fraud committed at the highest levels of Government might enlighten you. Read it here
http://www.autismmediachannel.com/#!cdcwhistleblower/cmmo

You state, “I will stand against the deadly misinformation that you try to propagate.” Perhaps after you read the evidence you will understand my position and passion for truth and justice. Perhaps you too will stand against propaganda and understand that you have been promoting corrupt science. You might possibly learn something and stand up for individual rights.

Apparently there are doctors willing to speak out on the ethics of mandatory compliance, “Health Impact News Editor Comments

Dr. Lee Hieb, writing for WND.com, joins the growing ranks of doctors speaking out against forced vaccinations and the current hysteria in the mainstream media. Dr. Lee Hieb is an orthopaedic surgeon specializing in spinal surgery. She is past president of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons.

Dr. Hieb’s voice is a voice of reason and common sense on the current vaccine debate. Contrast this with most of the mainstream media today, heavily funded by the pharmaceutical industry, which are parading doctors into their shows calling for mandatory vaccines by force, and the removal of all licenses to practice for doctors who disagree with them.

Dr. Hieb correctly points out the logical conclusions to allowing government make medical decisions “for the good of society” by letting them inject chemicals into our body:

Medical ethics are clear: No one should be forced to undergo a medical treatment without informed consent and without their agreement to the treatment. We condemn the forced sterilization of the ’20s and ’30s, the Tuskegee medical experiments infecting black inmates and the Nazi medicine that included involuntary “Euthanasia,” experimentation and sterilization. How can we force vaccination without consent? Vaccination is a medical treatment with risks including death. It is totally antithetical to all ethics in medicine to mandate that risk to others.

If you think the government has the right to forcibly vaccinate people – for the good of society – what is to prevent them from forcibly sterilizing people, or forcibly euthanizing people, or forcibly implanting a tracking device – for the good of society? You make think those examples are extreme (although two-thirds have happened), but the principle is the same. You are allowing government to have ultimate authority over your body. (Source.)

Dr. Hieb does not stop with her discussion of the medical ethics and political implications of government forced vaccinations, she goes on to address two crucial issues that you are unlikely to hear in the mainstream media: Are vaccines safe, and are they effective?

Read the full article on WND.com.

- See more at: http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/dr-lee-hieb-m-d-vaccine-hysteria-could-spark-totalitarian-nightmare/#sthash.hAVasyU6.dpuf

Exactly right, they want children to die. Why else would they post anti-scientific propaganda in an effort to convince the scientifically illiterate to leave their children unprotected against deadly diseases?

And please tell me, how are you equipped to "do your own research" so you don't have to listen to the "lies" that actual researchers and medical professionals tell? Are you scientifically trained? In what life science did you earn your PhD? If you have not designed and run your own clinical trials of vaccines, have you at least read through a few study designs or sat in on a review board while its members reviewed clinical study proposals prior to giving their authors the okay to go ahead or telling them to go back and redesign aspects of their trials? How many original research papers have you read in their entirety, which describe things like the rationale behind vaccine design and the results of laboratory research of those vaccines?

I am not going to waste time debunking every single anti-science trope you copied from whale.to, age of autism, or whatever other anti-vax propaganda site you've been memorizing. Sadly, people like you are resistant to any kind of knowledge or logic; I've devoted entire posts to try to educate people on how to find out the science behind vaccines for themselves, only to see that it is an utter waste of time. Why you think some radical leftist anti-humanity nut who posts anti-vaccine propaganda from his basement with the intent of killing children with deadly diseases is more credible than scientists who spent years learning the science and who do the actual scientific research is beyond me.

The quack who lied that MMR vaccine causes autism was doing it for the money. He had a financial stake in selling the vaccines separately instead of as a combo shot. He also wanted to make money in lawsuits by using those bogus claims to file lawsuits in the name of parents of autistic children.

Didn't I already challenge you to explain how vaccinating a child warps time to cause a genetic disease (autism) that was already present in the sperm and egg before that child was even conceived?

BTW, here are some legitimate scientific references, which you find cataloged in PubMed: Vaccine. New England Journal of Medicine. Journal of Biological Chemistry. Science. Nature. Journal of the American Medical Association. PLOS Pathogens. Etc. There are hundreds of them. Just go to PubMed, enter a search term, and you can find the original research for yourself.

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