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Can the United States Defeat the Combined Military Power of Russia and China?

Posted on 10/12/2015 9:34:55 AM PDT by pinochet

America's power is being tested to a greater extent, than in the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1961.

Russia is attacking the Al-Qaeda linked terrorist organization, the Free Syrian Army, which is a so-called ally of America. China indicated that it will join the military strikes against the anti-Assad forces, because China considers Assad as an ally: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/100915-774990-china-joining-russia-to-humiliate-us-weakened-by-obama.htm

China is now ready to fight to defend its unilateral control of the Spratley Islands in the South China Sea.

Does America have enough military power to defeat a combined force of Russia and China?


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Israel; Japan; Philosophy; Russia; Syria; War on Terror; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: astroturf; belarus; brazil; brics; china; india; iran; israel; lebanon; putinsbuttboys; russia; russianstooges; southafrica; southchinasea; sovietunion; syria; ukraine; usa; vladtheimploder; waronterror
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To: central_va
In the 60's my father, no college, provided house, two cars and vacations every year for family of 5. And no, he was not in a union of any kind. The NEVER used credit cards. I watch my dad pay cash for a brand new 1970 Maverick $2300.00.

That price is ~30% of the median income in 1970. If you could strip modern amenities that people won't buy a new car today without (e.g. Air Conditioning), you could easily beat that price, and once you factored total cost of ownership by looking at gas mileage it is no contest. As it stands there are plenty of new cars that are WAY better than a 1970 Maverick available under 20k.

One generation later, both my wife and I are college educated and we cannot do that and not run up huge debt. Try to pay cash for a new car now.

People choosing debt over savings to obtain goods is a rational response to constant inflation, it doesn't really have anything to do with trade.

My wife and I are also college educated, it's why we don't waste money on new cars and save for our purchases.

But many people feel they 'need' things that weren't even consumer options in 1970, from cell phones, internet, cable, and a panoply of other consumer goods. If the government didn't interfere in the credit market there wouldn't be the constant inflation, and there wouldn't be the inducements to borrow that exist. You've got to identify the actual source of the problem, and the ability to trade isn't the problem...

81 posted on 10/13/2015 8:14:46 AM PDT by Gunslingr3
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To: central_va
In 1930 import-exports were < 4% of total GDP. I call that self sufficient.

That's funny, my grandpa called it the GREAT DEPRESSION.

Global trade fell substantially as a consequence of WWI, and then again as countries engaged in currency manipulation in the 1920s in a vain effort to escape the debt their war stupidity thrust upon them. When currency manipulations failed they tried trade manipulations, which also failed. The result was the worst economic calamity in the history of our country.

No one who lived through the 1930s thought of it as the 'good old days'.

Bottom line: You can be in favor of gloBULLism and what it has done to decimate America's middle class and our industrial base or you can be a Patriot. But you cannot be both.

Trade isn't a problem, and never has been. What is hurting this nation economically is malinvestment consequent to credit manipulations by the government. If the government's (and the public's) borrowing were constrained by real interest rates the middle class wouldn't see their future mortgaged to buy votes.

82 posted on 10/13/2015 8:23:36 AM PDT by Gunslingr3
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To: Gunslingr3
Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war. …
That is Goal #4 of the communists. So-called “free trade” has benefited them alone. It has constricted the production of wealth and devalued/degraded currencies to the point of worthlessness.

Are you sure you aren’t conflating the terms “free trade” and “free market”? They are not the same thing.

And as for Goal #37 of the communists:
Infiltrate and gain control of big business. …
That has most definitely happened. Or else why does big business, in concert with the US Chamber of Commerce and “progressive” politicians, push for more of the so-called “free trade” (in absence of free markets)?
83 posted on 10/13/2015 8:39:25 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Gunslingr3

PS. It is a false dilemma that the only choices for a nation t conduct international trade are between “free trade” and autarky.


84 posted on 10/13/2015 8:42:02 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Gunslingr3

That foreign debt is probably an insurance policy that keeps America more secure. If someone owes you a ton of money, its difficult to get it back if you kill the guy. Our ability to pay is of importance to China.....


85 posted on 10/13/2015 8:43:15 AM PDT by kjam22 (my music video "If My People" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74b20RjILy4)
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To: John S Mosby
Oh, and btw- selecting the chinee for our non-payment is a leverage.

No, it's unconstitutional, and you can't stop the Chinese from simply selling that debt instrument to someone else (e.g. Carib based hedge funds). Unfortunately since Nixon we live in age where the monetary base is pyramided on U.S. government debt. If you devalue that debt (which is the consequence of your dream of default) it will result in substantially diminishing the purchasing power of the users of that currency - which is us above everyone else.

But most importantly, how would a now-potemkin village bankrupt china manage anything without their own ability to pay for strategic tools.

Goods and services are ultimately paid for in goods and services - trade. The exception is if you have a currency that people use in trade and you can print that currency. Then you don't have to produce goods or services, you just print claims on services. THAT is the process that is destroying the middle class in this country, but the politicians and bankers are happy to keep you focusing on trade as long as it keeps you from noticing the actual source of trouble that empowers and enriches them. Trade is a scapegoat, it isn't a problem. Our trade imbalances are a reflection of the monetary manipulation, they are not the driver. You seek to attack the symptom of the problem, but you're not noticing the cause of the symptom. I implore you to look further up the chain of causation.

86 posted on 10/13/2015 8:47:08 AM PDT by Gunslingr3
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To: Olog-hai
PS. It is a false dilemma that the only choices for a nation t conduct international trade are between “free trade” and autarky.

Didn't assert otherwise, but autarky is held by some as an ideal. They are misguided.

Freedom is the ideal.

Why do you want restrictions on consumer choice?

Why should the government compel me to trade with you instead of leaving me free to trade my goods and services with whomever I want?

87 posted on 10/13/2015 9:24:48 AM PDT by Gunslingr3
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To: Gunslingr3
That's funny, my grandpa called it the GREAT DEPRESSION.

The roaring 20's trade was 5 Billion per yer in current dollars on average. That is minuscule, almost a statistical anomaly. That is self sufficiency.

Trade isn't a problem, and never has been. What is hurting this nation economically is malinvestment consequent to credit manipulations by the government. If the government's (and the public's) borrowing were constrained by real interest rates the middle class wouldn't see their future mortgaged to buy votes.

Gibberish.

88 posted on 10/13/2015 9:30:21 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Stormdog
As I recall, (and I don’t know if this is still the case), under Mao, they were willing to risk a nuclear war under the thinking that there were (are) so many Chinese, that many would survive. The survivors would rebuild and dominate.

The Soviet viewpoint was that, if the Party leadership survived and had post-war military dominance, they would consider they "won". Even if Russia was devastated, if Europe was conquered and Party leadership could move to, say, Paris, and from there control all that was left, then they "won".

89 posted on 10/13/2015 9:55:04 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Big government is attractive to those who think that THEY will be in control of it.)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
From a Princess Bride, “No, the first Big Mistake is to get involved in a land war in Asia.”

If the war involves invading the Chinese mainland, then forget it.

If the war involves stopping the Chinese from projecting power across the Pacific, we could likely do it.

We don't have to invade China, if we can sink every Chinese container ship and prevent them from exporting goods and importing supplies.

90 posted on 10/13/2015 9:57:59 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Big government is attractive to those who think that THEY will be in control of it.)
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To: pinochet
How can America regain its status as a superpower?

What's your suggestion?

91 posted on 10/13/2015 9:58:59 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: central_va
Gibberish.

Are you unaware of how the government manipulates the credit markets and the currency, and the effects that has on consumption and investment?

Without massive government debt issuance there can be no long term trade imbalances. Cutting off trade doesn't address the problem, it just means we can no longer export the consequences of our inflation to others. Even massive government debt issuance doesn't have an unlimited horizon. Eventually the interest payments themselves swamp the taxes collected, and at that point the reality of what politicians have wrought is brought home at once: witness Greece.

Freedom to trade is not the problem, but the politicians and bankers who profit from our system of government debt and inflation absolutely love for you to ignore them and will gladly support you scapegoating producers.

92 posted on 10/13/2015 11:44:57 AM PDT by Gunslingr3
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To: Gunslingr3

Allowing communist takeover of the means of production without and (especially) within the USA results in “restrictions on consumer choice”. There are far fewer choices available today than in the past, with the dearth of US-made goods and the draconian regulations imposed unconstitutionally by executive agencies. Empowering enemies by means of communistic “free trade” is going to result in economic siege of the USA; we’ve seen this in action in part already.

The communist goals as outlined in the Congressional record shows the “many roads to socialism” in action even in the 1950s.


93 posted on 10/13/2015 11:54:46 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Gunslingr3
The problem is offshoring - causing high unemployment in the USA due to the huge differences in labor costs. These differences are exploited for the benefit of international corporations and their stock holders.

The taxpayer, the unemployed and the consumer are the losers. I.E. the rest of the USA. The price differential is pocketed and not passed along. Quality is usually inferior and when was the last time you saw a box labeled Made in China and thought "Betcha that is a well made product"?

94 posted on 10/13/2015 12:26:59 PM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: PapaBear3625
We don't have to invade China, if we can sink every Chinese container ship and prevent them from exporting goods and importing supplies.

Think of all the unFree Traders with egg foo young on their faces!

95 posted on 10/13/2015 12:29:06 PM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Gunslingr3

China’s market crashed recently and revalued. My point is that China is bankrupt (before we are with the money manipulation of the Fed).

So, I’ll bite. How are we going to stop the spending with idiot congresspeople of any party running up a tab and a debt, eagerly financed by the Fed printing electronic cash and floating an ever higher debt. Democrats and the bankers are in this together in one form and repubs/rinos in the other, and they eat out of a trough of money THEY created with this false taxation of inflation and the impending crash, again to be paid for by the taxpayer..... and now their intl. corporate cronies and techies who don’t resist the increases. The false economy begins with chinese paper walls propped up by... nothing. It is just like the false paper of the real estate derivatives (false value discovered and kaboom).


96 posted on 10/13/2015 1:17:26 PM PDT by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: John S Mosby; Gunslingr3

Addendum: the federal trough is created such that everybody is trying to eat out of it— as a business plan. The military-industrial complex is now the military industrial medical-entitlements-regulations (written to create govt. contractors)complex.

Everywhere I look I see someone, somehow and in some way feeding at the federal trough. This is fully integrated venture socialism and corruption we all know about. Name the sector, it’s there- agri, military hardware, aviation, railroads- freight and passenger, healthcare (a whole new boondoggle to guarentee medical inflation internal to the main payors, and contracted to 3 major insurance payors who will soon go “out of business” because of premiums not competing with premium subsidies).


97 posted on 10/13/2015 1:23:23 PM PDT by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: pinochet

We can’t make our own bolts in America. No, we cannot win a war against China and Russia.


98 posted on 10/13/2015 1:28:10 PM PDT by Travis T. OJustice (I miss my dad.)
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To: Travis T. OJustice

WWII was won by many miracles. Ever read Proverbs 21:31?


99 posted on 10/14/2015 2:53:02 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: central_va
The problem is offshoring - causing high unemployment in the USA due to the huge differences in labor costs.

Demand for labor is unlimited (just think of all the things you want done to and around your house), the only issue is at what price. Politicians can make employment illegal (at a price two parties would agree to absent the State's interference), and thereby add to unemployment, but beyond that unemployment is willful.

Unemployment is ultimately at the feet of any regulations (including minimum wage) that price labor out of the market.

These differences are exploited for the benefit of international corporations and their stock holders.

What do you do with your savings? Do you buy stocks at all? Do you have savings?

The taxpayer, the unemployed and the consumer are the losers.

Whether the product is made in Florida, Mexico or China doesn't matter to the taxpayer. The consumer makes their own choice weighing cost and quality against all the other products and services they could by. No one is entitled to a consumer's business, and yet you seek to force that entitlement by law.

I.E. the rest of the USA. The price differential is pocketed and not passed along. Quality is usually inferior and when was the last time you saw a box labeled Made in China and thought "Betcha that is a well made product"?

'Pocketed' by whom? I suppose there are some people unsatisfied with the quality of their iPhone, but there seem to be a lot more who are satisfied. Did someone stop you from buying Apple stock and taking part in the 'pocketing' of profits from a product that consumers want?

100 posted on 10/14/2015 8:04:52 AM PDT by Gunslingr3
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