USMC: Muslim-American recruit was called ‘terrorist’ prior to his death

Beaufort Gazette ^ | 12 Sept. 2016 | WADE LIVINGSTON

[DoughtyOne]

Yep, you’re going to stick with the idea he just up and killed himself because he couldn’t get a throat lozenge.

ROTF LMAO

[Ray76]

There were other avenues available to him. He chose suicide.

If you want to stick with the idea that it’s reasonable to expect people to commit suicide that’s your business.

[DoughtyOne]

Oh he didn’t have time to talk to other people, remember?

He just up and offed himself because he couldn’t get a lozenge. What DI could have known?

ROFT LMAO

[Ray76]

> Oh he didn’t have time to talk to other people, remember?

Huh?

[Roger Kaputnik]

Excellent observation.

I haven’t heard of seen a thing either and suspect it is a false narrative.

[DoughtyOne]

Hey, the only reason he committed suicide, according to you was because he couldn’t get to a lozenge quick enough.

That has been your theory, and you’re sticking to it.

The DI couldn’t have possibly known because if there was anything else going on the recruit would have told someone.

LMAO!

His DI and his fellow roomies were undoubtedly giving the guy a hard time, and you think he would trust going to the staff to get help.

He was supposed to trust other staff members there to help him, and of course that couldn’t come back to haunt him.

You’re a riot.

[Ray76]

I never said he wasn’t being given a hard time. I have only maintained that jumping from the third floor was unforeseeable.

All recruits are given a hard time, very few commit suicide.

Did the recruit attempt any avenue for relief? Not that I know of. It appears he made a snap decision to kill himself.

[OftheOhio]

“the whole damned world knows that a Marine rifle company has combat power utterly beyond all reasonable expectations.” ......word

[DoughtyOne]

Yes Ray76, he just offed himself because he couldn’t get a lozenge. Hey, I know what you think. I know how absurd what you think is too.

You surmise there couldn’t have been anything going on with his DI and fellow recruits or he would have told someone.

Fine. I get it Ray76. So he killed himself because he couldn’t get a stinkin lozenge.

I know that make sense to you. You have my deepest sympathy.

LOL

[DoughtyOne]

I’m outa here Ray76.

Have a good night. Seriously....

D1

[Ray76]

If a complaint had been filed and there was no change or if there was retaliation I would agree with you. None of those things happened. You want to hold the DI culpable for a recruit’s snap decision. That’s ridiculous.

It’s unfortunate, but the kid cracked. He didn’t even seek any relief and went straight to suicide. I don’t mean to be heartless, but suicide is a character flaw.

[Maverick68]

Funnily enough, I’ve never heard the term “moderate Nazi” being tossed about in the History books.

[Crucial]

So I’m supposed to feel guilty if I distrust Muslims despite the fact that too many have shown themselves to be radicals? This article is supposed to shame me into letting my guard down and invite potential subjugation? Perhaps it’s not about that and I hope this guy wasn’t abused and murdered but I don’t trust the traitor media.

[ManHunter]

Excellent point, Rhino! There was a time when ALL services demeaned their “cruits”, “trainees”, “basics”, etc. in basic training, but that was before the age of timeouts and other similar nonsense.

Can’t handle getting yelled at, you’re really not going to like getting shot at...

[Old Yeller]

You can not follow islam and be a United States Marine.

Or be civilized.

[DoughtyOne]

If a complaint had been filed and there was no change or if there was retaliation I would agree with you. None of those things happened.

There's just one problem with that logic.  People do not always have confidence in this type of reporting system.  We've all seen what happens to whistle blowers, and here there's the fact that the people he would report to are part of the same tight knit family on the base.  That can lead a person to think the process alone could turn into a threat.  While you may wish to dismiss that, it's not what you think that counts.  It's what the person under the gun thought.  Is that a possiblity or not?  Again, whether we identify with that feeling or not, it is still a possibility for the person that took his life.  The taking of his life was an act of desperation.  Illogical or not, he didn't see an out.  At some points in life, you trust nobody.  That could easily have been this guys mindset here.

You want to hold the DI culpable for a recruit’s snap decision. That’s ridiculous.

There you go lofting the idea the guy killed himself on the spur of the moment with no contributing factors other than that he couldn't go to the infirmary that moment to have his throat looked at.  I submit the actions at that moment were the culmination of other things going on that we are not privy to.  Why do I say that?

Nobody kills themself because they can't go to the infirmary alone.  Your theory that this guy did, simply isn't reasoned.

Since you haven't agreed to my premise that other things were going on, your version is reduced to this.  The guy was going through basic training with no problems.  He developed a sore throat one morning.  His DI would not let him go to the infirmary, so he killed himself.  That seems to make more sense to you than that there was obviously other things contributing to this.  And if there were, the DI, other recruits, and perhaps others did know.  That's why I submit that the DI was responsible for what took place.  He knew the kid was being ridden hard.  I think he probably promoted that.  He not only did nothing to stop it, but he continued the hazing during training exercises as well

The instuctor was giving him a hard time.  Evidently he had been giving this guy a hard time for a while.  It was stated he called this guy a terrorist at another point in time.  It is much more rational to think that the DI and other recruits were riding this guy very hard.  It's called hazing, and at times that gets out of hand.  I think the hazing behind the scenes as well as the DI's actions drove this guy over the edge.  This clearly makes more sense than thinking the guy just up and decided to kill himself because he couldn't go to the infirmary..

It’s unfortunate, but the kid cracked. He didn’t even seek any relief and went straight to suicide. I don’t mean to be heartless, but suicide is a character flaw.

We do not know what kind of a low, or for that matter, high note this kid came into the service on.  He may have been looking at it as a lifeline.  Perhaps his home life was not very good.  Perhaps he thought this might be a new start for him.  Hazing and hard riding by the DI could have crushed what he saw as his last lifeline.  I don't know, but something was going on here.

Is suicide evidence of a character flaw, or is it simply a poor choice when things look very bleak and you are super depressed?

I understand where you are coming from by making that comment.  I don't think it's a preposterous assessment.  I also realize that there are times in life where things get very bleak, and people mistakenly think it's the best option.  Perhaps their mind isn't right.  Perhaps it is inferior.  We are not all as physically inclined as others.  We are not all as smart as others.  Our capabilites are different.  This guy may have been more suseptible to suicide than you.  I can't say.  Perhaps if you had gone through his path to where he did what he did, you might have identified with him more, even if you didn't choose the same outcome.

[Ray76]

> Nobody kills themself because they can’t go to the infirmary alone. Your theory that this guy did, simply isn’t reasoned.

Which is not at all what I have said. I have said that if he was being treated too harshly that he could have filed a complaint. He did not seek relief. I don’t think any reasonable person would expect a recruit to commit suicide. The recruit made a snap decision, ran to a doorway, opened it, and threw himself over a third story railing. The article makes no mention of the recruit seeking relief or aid of any sort. The recruit did something unexpected. Is the DI a bastard? Quite probably, that’s the job.

> People do not always have confidence in this type of reporting system.

That’s their issue. The process is there, he chose not to use it.

The culpability for this self-murder is with the decedent. Again, if he had sought relief and it was not forthcoming or there was retaliation, then others would have culpability.

[DoughtyOne]

Ray76, once again you go with the theory this guy simply decided to kill himself because he couldn’t go to the infirmary.

You keep saying he didn’t report so nothing else was going on.

Why can’t you admit that nobody is going to kill them-self just because they couldn’t got to the infirmary?

There had to be something additional in play here.

The DI was aware of it. He knew this guy was on the edge. He still drove him further. He WAS culpable.

[Ray76]

> once again you go with the theory this guy simply decided to kill himself because he couldn’t go to the infirmary.

I just specifically said otherwise.

[Ray76]

> There had to be something additional in play here.
>
> The DI was aware of it. He knew this guy was on the edge.

Presumptions.