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Speaker Hastert Considering National ID Card
Hannity and Colmes, FoxNews | 9-24-01 | Me

Posted on 09/24/2001 2:42:22 AM PDT by DLfromthedesert

Congressman David Dreier appeared on "Hannity and Colmes" Sunday night. When asked about the National ID Card, he stated that Speaker Dennis Hastert was considering it, and that under present circumstances it could not be ruled out.


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So our Congressmen believe the way to save America is to trash our freedo. Please freep Speaker Hastert Phone:202-225-2976 fax:202-225-0697 e-mail:dhastert@mail.house.gov
Tell your representatives this is NOT an acceptable option, and that NO freedom loving American will comply.
1 posted on 09/24/2001 2:42:22 AM PDT by DLfromthedesert
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To: DLfromthedesert
FReep time.....
</font size>Let's roll!</font size>

2 posted on 09/24/2001 3:20:08 AM PDT by ppaul
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To: ppaul
Another way you can look at it is, it could be a way to SAVE your freedoms. We're in a touchy situation - and I don't understand all the ramifications....But I would like to trust our leaders until proven otherwise. I doubt there are few things the gov doesn't know about us. It's probably a way to cull out the non-legals.
3 posted on 09/24/2001 3:24:40 AM PDT by Gracey
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To: Gracey
I've been carrying a national ID card for the past 12 years. Military ID.

I understand peoples distrust, the whole thing smacks of, "Papers, please!"

4 posted on 09/24/2001 3:29:42 AM PDT by Ispy4u
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To: DLfromthedesert
I will NEVER accept such a national ID card. This is a knee-jerk reaction which will not prevent terrorism but will reduce our liberties. What is the case for such a card? They talk about the card but make no real argument for it that makes sense. BEWARE OF THIS!!!!
5 posted on 09/24/2001 3:32:17 AM PDT by NoControllingLegalAuthority
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To: Ispy4u
Yes, it is understandable. I've worked for the Feds all my life and had to show a badge. Also, I consider my driver's license an ID. It has a scanner (w/all pertinent data) and they've got my SSN and a thumbprint.
6 posted on 09/24/2001 3:33:40 AM PDT by Gracey
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To: Ispy4u NoControllingLegalAuthority Gracey DLfromthedesert
This is it.
Every FReeper oughta be willing to go to jail if need be for refusing to go along with this national ID system.
You are 100 percent right, Ispy. That is EXACTLY what it means -
"Your papers please. Und ver are your papers? Und vy don't you haf zem vit you? Guard - arrest zis untermenschen! Seig heil!"

I believe it was Benjamin Franklin who said,
"A people who will sacrifice freedom for safety are worthy of neither."

:

7 posted on 09/24/2001 3:56:54 AM PDT by ppaul
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: Gracey
"...Another way you can look at it is, it could be a way to SAVE your freedoms. We're in a touchy situation - and I don't understand all the ramifications....But I would like to trust our leaders until proven otherwise. I doubt there are few things the gov doesn't know about us. It's probably a way to cull out the non-legals..."

LOL!

Good one!

9 posted on 09/24/2001 4:08:51 AM PDT by DWSUWF
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To: DWSUWF
Consider the source -
a lifetime gubbamint employee. They've been programmed.
10 posted on 09/24/2001 4:10:43 AM PDT by ppaul
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To: Unalienable
I don't believe they will do it.

If they do... I will not be assimilated…

11 posted on 09/24/2001 4:11:19 AM PDT by DB
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To: DLfromthedesert
These numbskulls just can't seem to understand one little detail here: Such an ID card is only worthwhile if a Bad Guy can't get one or if it's impossible to counterfeit.

Anyone wanna bet their freedom on the above? I don't, either.

Why is it they don't think of these things??

Shoot, folks.........some of these terrorists had Social Security cards. One was a military (Special Forces) veteran. Hel-loooooo????

Nope. Count me out for The Card. Next thing you know, they'll co-opt AmEx's tag line: "Don't leave home without it!"

12 posted on 09/24/2001 4:14:02 AM PDT by RightOnline
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To: Gracey
I am an old man and have had all these freedoms and do not wish to be a police state but some things need to be held in check.Most of you would want a pedophile identified in your neighborhood if you have kids,most want to know if a contagious disease were spreading,you would want to head off the WTC again. It is not a sacrifice for a person to have to identify themselves.Wake up! It will not affect what little time I may have left but I see drugs decimating our society,our country being overrun by illegals,our elections being controlled by those inelgible or illegal to vote.I see criminals walking the streets and making a mockery of the criminal justice system and God knows what my children and grand children will see.As long as we keep the jury system in place and if the Supreme Court consisted of several lay people we could handle most of it. The biggest problem in America today is that we have too many laws and not enough accountability for our governing systems.Laws are written for lawyers and criminals.Government is never held accountable regardless of what anyone says and last but the most important in the name of the law America no longer has any morals.
13 posted on 09/24/2001 4:26:16 AM PDT by gunnedah (gunnedah)
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To: Gracey
could be a way to SAVE your freedoms

This is saving freedom the same way Reinhart Reno saved the children at Waco. Here are some people who trusted their government and accepted national ID cards (their government also had a "department of internal security" called the Sicherheit Dienst")

I'm really curious just how you think turning the US into a police state ("Halt! Show Papers.") is going to save freedom. What freedom to you think that this will save. The freedom to be taxed? The freedom to have warrentless searches? The freedom to be arrested because you did not have your identity papers?

14 posted on 09/24/2001 4:26:35 AM PDT by from occupied ga
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To: RightOnline
Hey Guy!

The move is to probably have the ID cards be "smart cards" with a chip containing biometric information about the carrier (retinal scan, thumb print, perhaps even DNA information later. Ever see the movie GATTICA?) Anyway, the sheeple are lining up for this, thinking by getting branded it will keep out unbranded strays. However, you're still a body in a cattle yard, heading for the slaughterhouse.

Drudge had a report out last night on this that I saved because it was right out of Revelations 13. To see in print the words of our "leaders" mouthing this swill knocked me for a loop. Examples:

"We are in a new world," Gephardt said. "This event will change the balance between freedom and security."

"We need a national ID card with our photograph and thumbprint digitized and embedded in the ID card," (Oracle CEO Larry) Ellison said in an interview Friday night on the evening news of KPIX-TV in San Francisco.

(PM Tony) Blair has opted for a voluntary scheme in issuing the card, rejecting a compulsory "on demand" card because of connotations with Nazi Germany, where lack of proper identity cards could result in instant arrest, according to reports. However, it will be virtually impossible for anyone to live a normal life without the new ID card in England - possession of a valid card will be necessary for boarding an aircraft, buying gas, opening a bank account, starting a job or claiming government benefits.

In a nationwide poll released Sunday, a stunning 85% of Brits would welcome a national ID card system in the wake of the terrorist attacks on the United States, with an overwhelming majority calling for the cards to be packed with information to clearly identify the holder: These include photograph (97%), date of birth (96%) eye color (92%), a finger print (85%), DNA details (75%), criminal records (74%) and religion (67%).

And there's more in the article. Scary stuff, eh buddy?

15 posted on 09/24/2001 4:28:49 AM PDT by Dubh_Ghlase
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To: ppaul
"...Consider the source - ..."

I can visualize this vacuous lump of clay, disengaged from reality, with their every word and action obscenely and utterly in opposition to what made this nation great

Some people shouldn't breed.

And some people are the living proof that this simple rule applied to their parents.

16 posted on 09/24/2001 4:30:30 AM PDT by DWSUWF
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To: Dubh_Ghlase
Religion? But say I'm a Baptist on Sundays, an Adventist on Saturdays, and a Catholic the rest of the week. But last year I professed Judaism but before that I was a Buddhist. Let's see them get all THAT in the idiotic card.

Scary thing is Hastert is #3 in line for Presidency. If Bush is ambushed and Cheney has a heart attack over it, Hastert becomes our new pres.

17 posted on 09/24/2001 4:33:51 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Gracey
Isn't about fifty years of eroding and lost freedoms enough evidence for you? Problem is....most are so used to it they don't know how free Americans once were. If this attack turns into an excuse to accomplish in a time of crisis what they could not accomplish otherwise........I for one will be really pissed and disappointed.

Destroy the terrorists.....not our liberities!!

18 posted on 09/24/2001 4:35:20 AM PDT by rebel
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To: ppaul
Mr. Hastert has been freeped!
19 posted on 09/24/2001 4:39:54 AM PDT by LeftyStomper
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To: ppaul
They've been programmed.

Someone has to protect those gov secrets. :-) But you're right. Those of us in the military or Fed have been used to ID, fingerprints and the whole gamot...necessary for our jobs.

Look at it this way.... we can use it to vote also - get rid of the illegals at the polls.

20 posted on 09/24/2001 4:40:02 AM PDT by Gracey
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To: NoControllingLegalAuthority
Let's think like a lunatic, as THEY are with an i.d. card.....why can't there be an i.d. card for the non-Americans' nationality?

Yes, a national i.d. card IS a pitiful knee-jerk solution! The 'law-abiding' will be the ones who will 'sign-up'. The law-abiding TERRORISTS will sign-up. (don't forget, the jihad playbook has rules on how to be assimilated into our society, so they can carry out their terrorist plots)

And the outcome of a national i.d. card? It'll be just like gun-registration.

21 posted on 09/24/2001 4:41:32 AM PDT by mommadooo3
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To: RightOnline
One was a military (Special Forces) veteran

What you talking about??? Tell me more - who?

22 posted on 09/24/2001 4:42:02 AM PDT by Gracey
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To: gunnedah
It is not a sacrifice for a person to have to identify themselves.Wake up!

We are awake -- wide awake. That's why some of us are concerned.

We already have identity cards -- SS#'s, which are now "required" for newborn infants before the parents can claim them on their tax returns as dependents. When SS#'s were issued, the government PROMISED they would NEVER be used for identification purposes. Only your employer and the SSA needed that information. How far we have come.

What, pray tell, type of national ID card could be created that cannot be counterfeited? And what's its actual purpose? To fill governmental databases with still more information on individuals and to gradually control movement by requiring that the card be used in more and more situtations?

Wake up? Too many are sleeping.

23 posted on 09/24/2001 4:42:58 AM PDT by I am still Casey
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To: DLfromthedesert
These men are stupid. How in the hell would you implement it? ANd shouldn't they be doing other things?

Next, we'll see them trying to get the guns out of the street to make the cities of the US as safe as Kabul. After all, acc'dg to liberals I've heard, the one good thing the Taliban did was to get the guns out of the streets, to make the streets safer.

24 posted on 09/24/2001 4:46:10 AM PDT by Benrand
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To: DWSUWF
Why don't they just implant a chip in our belly like they do for dogs and cats????? Reminds me of "Logan's Run."
25 posted on 09/24/2001 4:46:31 AM PDT by outabounds
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To: Dubh_Ghlase; RightOnline; DWSUWF
"We need a national ID card with our photograph and thumbprint digitized and embedded in the ID card," (Oracle CEO Larry) Ellison said in an interview Friday night on the evening news of KPIX-TV in San Francisco.

Ellison and Oracle are just the ones to provide this too. Larry, the goateed egomaniac, even resembles a minion of the prince of darkness.

26 posted on 09/24/2001 4:51:09 AM PDT by Dukie
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To: outabounds
We've been distracted by our foreign enemies the last couple of weeks, but it's important to remember that we have no small number of domestic enemies as well.

Domestic enemies who, by the way, deserve PRECISELY the same fate that our foreign enemies do.

27 posted on 09/24/2001 4:52:47 AM PDT by DWSUWF
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To: rebel
Destroy the terrorists.....not our liberities!!

Personally, I believe we're at a point where we may not have a country as we know it, many of us will be dead and we'll be sent back to the stone ages - as least the few living. IMO, you may either lose some liberties NOW, or not be alive to care. I'd rather be alive to change things afterward, if we live through the next several years.

Hey, you all.... we're in a Life & Death situation in this war. We're only a little over 200 years old, and we're not invincible. Wake up!!!!

28 posted on 09/24/2001 4:52:59 AM PDT by Gracey
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To: DB
Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated. The time resist this was when they started using social security numbers as a form of ID. Now a child recieves one at birth, or shortly thereafter if you wish to claim them as a dependent. We already have national ID, and Americans are tracked from birth by the Feds and in adulthood by the credit card companies and banks. A uniform ID with digital links to the social security database, laser hologram photographs, (already in use) and a fingerprint, (already used in some states) would make it extremely difficult for illegal aliens to use forged IDs and phony SS numbers to remain in the country. No other data on you would be necessary.
29 posted on 09/24/2001 4:55:26 AM PDT by Zorobabel
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To: RightOnline
A national ID card, REQUIRED to board an airplane, for example, but not for day to day things, kinda like a PASSPORT, makes it more difficult for these terrorists to wander around our great country. Had there been such a system in place, most, if not all, of these killers would have been caught at the gate, and we wouldn't have had the disaster we now have in NYC and DC. But, of course, if that it TOO much trouble for some of you, we can accept the status quo of hijacked planes flown into our national treasures; YOU CHOOSE.
30 posted on 09/24/2001 4:56:09 AM PDT by rebel_yell2
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To: Zorobabel
You are correct.
31 posted on 09/24/2001 4:58:00 AM PDT by DB
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To: DLfromthedesert
Duly freeped Denny's Email. We already have a National ID card, It is the Social Security Card. Absolutely no need for another. I'm betting that soon though, it will turn into a picture ID, and it will be demanded by "any controlling legal authority".
32 posted on 09/24/2001 5:03:48 AM PDT by morque2001
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To: RightOnline
You have FReep mail.
33 posted on 09/24/2001 5:14:51 AM PDT by jslade
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To: Gracey
Another way you can look at it is, it could be a way to SAVE your freedoms.

That's kind of like: we had to destroy the village in order to save it.

Or, Janet Reno: we had to kill the children in order to save them.

34 posted on 09/24/2001 5:30:18 AM PDT by B Knotts
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To: rebel_yell2
When I first read about this topic, I immediately thought about our passports (appropriate nomenclature for the task it serves), issued by the Dept. of State, whose data base doesn't 'talk' with the INS, an agency of the Dept. of Justice.

Go figure...

Question of the day--can someone provide some history about why these two very related agencies fall under different departments?

35 posted on 09/24/2001 5:30:48 AM PDT by NautiNurse
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To: B Knotts
Perhaps it won't matter, because our 200 year old country will not have the citizens to stomach this war - so we will just be annilated.

Maybe that's the ULTIMATE Freedom.

36 posted on 09/24/2001 5:35:10 AM PDT by Gracey
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To: Gracey
annilated = annihilated
37 posted on 09/24/2001 5:37:05 AM PDT by Gracey
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To: DLfromthedesert, All
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
- No.6
38 posted on 09/24/2001 5:38:25 AM PDT by B Knotts
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To: rebel_yell2
A national ID card, REQUIRED to board an airplane, for example, but not for day to day things, kinda like a PASSPORT, makes it more difficult for these terrorists to wander around our great country.

Amazing thought, RY.

About a month ago, Continental asked me to put my DRIVERS LICENSE into their e-ticket machine in order to fulfill the FAA mandate that all passengers must present picture ID prior to boarding. I refused, opting to wait in line and show it to them instead.

Now, what possible "national ID" would be more secure than a driver's license or passport? How would this national ID be validated? Who would issue it? How would the issuer know that you are not (or that you are) a terrorist in the U.S. under false credentials?

The only way that a "national ID" could have any security advantage over a driver's license is if it also included a background check, and the physical ID itself was designed to prevent forgery.

So the issuance of a secure "national ID" (this IS about security, yes?) would entail a H-U-G-E bureaucracy doing background checks on every single American. Think of how long it might take YOU to get your secure "national ID", not to mention the other 250 million of us.

Who does the checks on 250 million Americans? What are the criteria? And finally, who is printing and distributing these "unforgeable" ID cards?

As an example, the INS now has an "unforgeable" green card for permanent residents. Fingerprint, photo, holographics, mag stripe, etc. You know how long it takes to actually obtain this super-duper "unforgeable" green card once you've been approved for permanent residency? ONE YEAR!

Sample super-super green card, courtesy BBC.

So in addition to being an insane solution to a nonexistant problem; in addition to being an incredibly intrusive infringement on American values and liberties; in addition to there being no such thing as an "unforgeable" ID document; in addition to all of that, the impossible logistics of background checking you as a "true American" worthy of such a card, and the insanity of actually producing and distributing such a document to 250+ million Americans, well.... I think it's clear that the entire notion is absolutely insane, impractical, and pointless.

And, hell, if I were a Chinese or Nigerian or Latin American high-tech forger, I'd be firing up my super-duper "secure American ID card" equipment right now, and selling those babies to every criminal and terrorist on the planet for $2,000 a pop.

Wow, what a great idea this is.

39 posted on 09/24/2001 5:44:03 AM PDT by angkor
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To: Gracey
Please tell me how law-abiding citizen carrying "papers" is going to stop terrorists.

And please tell me just what it is we're supposed to be fighting for and against. I thought we were supposed to be fighting against exactly this kind of stuff. This is a police-state proposal, not something that should be seriously considered in a constitutional republic.

40 posted on 09/24/2001 5:44:59 AM PDT by B Knotts
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: B Knotts
In addition to it being unbelieveably impractical and absolutely beyond the scope of reason from the implementation perspective.

And what a heck of a huge payday for high-tech forgery operations (China, are you listening?).

42 posted on 09/24/2001 6:00:12 AM PDT by angkor
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To: LLAN-DDEUSANT
Here's a 2 links from our fight on this id card the last time: http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a388843e16f0a.htm

43 posted on 09/24/2001 6:04:03 AM PDT by GailA
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To: B Knotts
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. - No.6

Well said. :)

44 posted on 09/24/2001 6:05:43 AM PDT by No.6
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To: rebel_yell2
"A national ID card, REQUIRED to board an airplane, for example, but not for day to day things, kinda like a PASSPORT, makes it more difficult for these terrorists to wander around our great country. Had there been such a system in place, most, if not all, of these killers would have been caught at the gate, and we wouldn't have had the disaster we now have in NYC and DC. But, of course, if that it TOO much trouble for some of you, we can accept the status quo of hijacked planes flown into our national treasures; YOU CHOOSE."

Don't suppose you read my reply above. Prove to me that such a card can't be/couldn't be counterfeited. THINK this time before responding.

45 posted on 09/24/2001 6:07:41 AM PDT by RightOnline
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To: Gracey
I've worked for the Feds all my life

It shows. And I say that as someone who worked for them myself for many years. The knee-jerk, "government knows best" attitude you display infects the federal system.

Another way you can look at it is, it could be a way to SAVE your freedoms.

Can you elaborate? How are our freedoms "saved" by cataloging us in a national databank?

We're in a touchy situation - and I don't understand all the ramifications....But I would like to trust our leaders until proven otherwise.

The ramifications aren't that tough to envision, if you're honest about it. For staters, look into the history of the social security number. Are you really convinced that we'll just be asked to forgo our freedoms "for a little while", till things "get better"? Then all the agencies, politicians, beaurocrats, and (newly employed) federal workers will give up their national ID-related jobs?

I doubt there are few things the gov doesn't know about us.

Somehow I get the impression that's just fine and dandy with you. But again, given your lifelong stint with federal employement, I understand it. Scary, but incredibly commonplace.

46 posted on 09/24/2001 6:13:44 AM PDT by workerbee
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To: Dubh_Ghlase
This whole idea of national id, smacks of "Having the number of the beast" the technology exists today to implant a chip under your skin that could hold all information on a person cradle to grave. To buy, sell, trade, enter public transportation etc. Think hard sheepies......Pet Parrots and other valuable animals are already id'd this way. A hand held scanner can devuldge all info via this id number to a computer database
47 posted on 09/24/2001 6:16:25 AM PDT by rocketdoc
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To: DLfromthedesert

ID Papers from Nazi Germany

Biometrics and National ID Cards -- The System for Total Control

Fight the Fingerprint

I Am Not A Number By Claire Wolfe

HOW THE REPUBLICANS IMPLEMENTED THE DEMOCRATS' NATIONAL ID PLAN By Scott McDonald

KNOW YOUR CUSTOMER By Mark Pettifor

48 posted on 09/24/2001 6:21:39 AM PDT by spiker (spiker@ev1.net)
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To: B Knotts
Good for you..... We too shall refuse to be briefed/debriefed. The old ASA (Army Security Agency" unofficial theme was "PLEASE DEBRIEF ME, LET ME GO, I DON'T WANT THE NEED TO KNOW" Ah the good old days
49 posted on 09/24/2001 6:33:21 AM PDT by rocketdoc
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To: DLfromthedesert, NC Libertarian
Well, I support some sort of identity card. I need to think it through, but given today's circumstances, I see no other choice.
50 posted on 09/24/2001 6:35:21 AM PDT by TKEman
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