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The Myth of Mecca
PUSA.com ^ | 9/27 | Dr. Jack Wheeler

Posted on 09/27/2001 6:56:26 AM PDT by francisandbeans

The most sacred spot on earth to all members of the Islamic religion is the Holy City of Mecca, revered as the birthplace of Mohammed. It is one of the five basic requirements incumbent upon all Moslems that they make (if their health will allow it) a pilgrimage to Mecca once in their lives (the other four: recognize that there is no god but Allah, that Mohammed is Allah's prophet, ritually pray five times a day, and give alms to the poor).

The founding events of Islam are Mohammed's activities in Mecca and Medina, a city north of Mecca. The life of Mohammed, known as the Sira, is popularly accepted to be fully documented historically, that everything he did and said was accurately recorded. According to one hagiographer, although Mohammed "could not read or write himself, he was constantly served by a group of 45 scribes who wrote down his sayings, instructions and activities.... We thus know his life down to the minutest details."

The evidence for this is "the earliest and most famous biography of Mohammed," the Sirat Rasul Allah (The Life of the Prophet of God) of Ibn Ishaq. The dates given for Mohammed's life are 570-632 AD. Ibn Ishaq was born about 717 and died in 767. He thus wrote his biography well over 100 years after Mohammed lived, precluding his gaining any information from eyewitnesses to the Sira as they would have all died themselves in the intervening years.

However, no copies exist of Ibn Ishaq's work. We know of it only through quotations of it in the History of al-Tabari, who lived over two hundred years after Ibn Ishaq (al-Tabari died in 992). Thus the earliest biography of Mohammed of which copies still exist was written some 350 years after Mohammed lived.

It is curious, therefore, that there seems to have been so little serious scholarly research of the historical evidence for how Islam came to be. Yet what seems to be isn't so. A number of professional academic historians, both Western and Moslem, have produced a large body of research on the origins of Islam. For reasons best known to the pundits and reviewers who should be aware of it, this research remains publicly unknown.

rest of article here


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: epigraphyandlanguage; history; islam; jackwheeler; mecca; middleages; petra; themythofmecca
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To: Who is George Salt?
Muslims believe Mohammed, Christ, and Abraham (as well as Moses, Noah, and many others) were all prophets of God.

Sure, but they come somewhat short of acknowledging Christ as the offspring of God.

They would easily accept Noah, as he was the father of Seth, from which many Muslims (and of course the Jews) derive.

41 posted on 09/27/2001 12:43:43 PM PDT by AlGone2001
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To: TigerLikesRooster
You know where this leads, full scale Crusade and Jihad. Is anybody in this country up to this?

I'm sad to say it, but I suspect that certain fringe elements of the Christian right lust for a holy war as much as the Taliban.

42 posted on 09/27/2001 12:45:19 PM PDT by Who is George Salt?
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To: StriperSniper
Dr. Wheeler has a few more articles on the site this one came from
43 posted on 09/27/2001 12:46:09 PM PDT by francisandbeans
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To: francisandbeans
Good article!

Al-Rawandi concludes that the Sira, the life of Mohammed in Mecca and Medina is a myth, a "baseless fiction." This is the conclusion of a substantial number of serious academic historians working on Islamic Studies today. They include Mohammed Ibn al-Warraq, Mohammed Ibn al-Rawandi, John Wansbrough, Kenneth Cragg, Patricia Crone, Michael Cook, John Burton, Andrew Rippin, Julian Baldick, Gerald Hawting, and Suliman Bashear. Yet they and their research are virtually unknown.

Islam a myth - now that says it all.

44 posted on 09/27/2001 12:50:30 PM PDT by neutrino (Neutrino)
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To: lucy1
No,not any Muslim. Never That says a lot.

If that were in fact the case, moslems would be perfectly willing to invite Christian missionaries in, and would permit them to distribute bibles freely. The fact that they do not implies that they realize that if the masses ever become enlightened, they will conclude that islam is a myth and a fraud, as the article showed.

45 posted on 09/27/2001 12:54:12 PM PDT by neutrino (neutrino)
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
"If the disciples lied and Jesus didn't rise, there's no reasonable explanation of why they were willing to be martyred for a lie. Do you have one?"

The answer to your question seems to be predicated upon the religious perspective of the questioner.

......``But any Muslim who dies on the side of Afghanistan will die as a martyr and go to paradise.''.

''the first martyrs in the battle of Islam of this age.''...

"the Muslims of Chechnya is a religious duty and anyone who killed a Russian would become a martyr and enter heaven."

"He said he was praying to Allah that they would be accepted as martyrs, and ``their children are my children and I will be their caretaker.''

46 posted on 09/27/2001 12:55:40 PM PDT by sinclair
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To: AlGone2001
Sure, but they come somewhat short of acknowledging Christ as the offspring of God.

True. They regard Jesus as a prophet, but they reject any claim of divinity. They consider all the prophets - including Mohammed - to be mortal. I believe the Koran does address Jesus as "the blessed one" and I think that has something to do with the virgin birth.

They do believe that in the Ascension, but they believe Jesus ascended to heaven as a mortal, where he lives to this day. They believe Jesus will return to earth during the end times to complete the remainder of his destiny on earth (and ultimately die as a mortal). BTW, they have their own version of Armageddon, where everyone dies. No rapture. They also believe in a Judgment Day.

They also reject the Christian doctrine of the "Trinity" - they regard it as a form of polytheism. I've got to confess, I have a hard time swallowing that one. Even at the age of 7 or 8, it sounded pretty fishy to me.

47 posted on 09/27/2001 12:56:11 PM PDT by Who is George Salt?
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To: Aquinasfan
The two (somewhat contradictory) stories of creation in Genesis.
The lack of corroborating historical records for the Hebrews in Egypt and their subsequent flight.
The lack of physical evidence for the conquest of Canaan.
The questionable historicity of Jesus.

Man, we've covered all these in dozens of threads on this forum, and I know you've been part of these discussions, or someone using your screen name has been.

48 posted on 09/27/2001 1:16:08 PM PDT by Junior
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To: neutrino
Actually, you have the phenomenon of MINO, Muslim in name only. Young Muslims (mostly male) come to Western countries to escape Islam. They give lip service to it and possibly even go to Mosque, but in their private lives they ignore it.

You see, the punishment for being an ex-Muslim is spelled out in the Koran -- death.

49 posted on 09/27/2001 1:24:37 PM PDT by AmishDude
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To: Junior
I don't know as much about the others, but

The questionable historicity of Jesus.

There is more historical evidence for the existence of Jesus than there is for the existence of Aristotle.

50 posted on 09/27/2001 1:27:59 PM PDT by AmishDude
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To: RightWhale
1) Why is the color green on their countries flags?

Envy, and a wish for vegetation.

2) Why is the crescent moon and star on their flags?

Pagan symbolism, similar in purpose to the use of pagan holy days by Christians.

3) Why is the meteorite in the middle of the city so important?

Beats me.

51 posted on 09/27/2001 1:31:24 PM PDT by rightofrush
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To: AmishDude
There is more historical evidence for the existence of Jesus than there is for the existence of Aristotle.

Watch it - you're going to arouse the ire of the Randians/Objectivists!

52 posted on 09/27/2001 1:32:14 PM PDT by Who is George Salt?
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Comment #53 Removed by Moderator

To: CubicleGuy
Although I don't necessarily disagree with you about pointing the missle at Mecca, it is not an option. Mecca is in the middle of Saudi Arabia, our suppossed ally. If we bomb our allies, it will turn into a holy war for sure. We are not in a holy war (yet), b/c many of the Muslims and Islams are with us in fighting these thugs. They give their religion a bad name, and I believe they will cleanse it from within. We are not going to have to do much militarily IMHO because they will "take care of them."
54 posted on 09/27/2001 1:45:38 PM PDT by tx4guns
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To: tx4guns
Isreal will bomb Mecca, we won't have to.
55 posted on 09/27/2001 1:48:46 PM PDT by Robert Lomax
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To: Aristophanes
Joshua 10:12-13

"Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.

And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day."

Happy?

56 posted on 09/27/2001 1:49:28 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: francisandbeans
Here's a pretty good site re' Islam.

http://www.campus.northpark.edu/history/WebChron/Islam/Islam.html

57 posted on 09/27/2001 1:56:18 PM PDT by janus
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To: CT
This reminds me of the way Hitler tried to use Nostradamus during WWII. He said the conquests by Germany were already in prophecy.

Shintoism was largely a creation of the imperial Japanese government, looking for a religion with which to unite the Japanese people into a nation.

58 posted on 09/27/2001 1:56:32 PM PDT by 537 Votes
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To: RightWhale
With respect to the use of the crescent and star, I have read the opinion that "Allah" is actually NOT the God of the Christians and Jews, but rather a moon diety or Arab god of war.

If you pivot the cresent and star motif perpendicularly, with the horns of the crescent facing up, the whole becomes the symbol of the ancient Carthaginian diety. It's name escapes me at the moment (Tanit?) but I believe it is considered to be the Phoenician version of Moloch or Ba'al.

59 posted on 09/27/2001 2:02:36 PM PDT by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: Non-Sequitur
So, what's your point?
60 posted on 09/27/2001 2:04:52 PM PDT by yawningotter
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