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Atheist Questions the Practice of Halloween...
Sir Francis Dashwood | 10-31-01 | Sir Francis Dashwood

Posted on 11/03/2001 5:06:55 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood

It never ceases to amaze me that most Christians would criticize me for being an atheist, yet they will "celebrate" a macabre pagan holiday. They inculcate their children into the practice of it and feed them the most unhealthful things you could give a child to eat.

Likewise, many atheists criticize me for being a "right-winger." Most atheists are so caught up in their polemics, they have become nothing more than anti-Christians - or what I call the Religious Left (a collaboration of the Marxist religion, neo-pagan animal/tree/earth worshipper eco-fascists and general technophobes).

Why do you "celebrate" on certain "holidays," what are you celebrating, do you really know? Or have you been so lost in the conformity of it all to really take a look at what you partake in?


TOPICS: Editorial; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: faithandphilosophy
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To: Goblins
And of course you always know exactly how Christ would have behaved...

I think I know how Jesus Christ expeceted his followers to behave, yes.

I think he made it pretty clear in his teachings.

141 posted on 11/04/2001 3:16:44 AM PST by OWK
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
Christans celebrate alot of things in groups or individually but we are also free not to celebrate any for this is the sixth day when man and women are being shaped into the image of God. Tomorrow is the Lord's rest which the wicked shall never enter. So every day for now is the same day, Halloween, Christmas, Easter, Ramadan are all on the same day, the sixth.
142 posted on 11/04/2001 3:17:44 AM PST by Goblins
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To: OWK
You don't even have the smallest inkling of who Jesus is, and yet you can read His mind, and judge His servants in His stead, good for you. Won't He be pleased when He returns.
143 posted on 11/04/2001 3:25:03 AM PST by Goblins
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
Old Nick or Satan Claus all dressed in red, setting everyone up for a day of greed, lust, envy, gluttoney and drunkeness.

Incidentally, "Old Nick" is what Maureen Kavanaugh Templeton's leprechauns amicably called the devil. St. Nicholas was a sixth-century almsgiver, whose feast day is December 6. St. Nick emerged as Santa Claus from among the New York Dutch a century or two ago. The Russians have a similar character, Grampa Frost. There are few things more Christian than a charitable gift-giver. There are few better ways to mock the Grim Reaper than to dress up as him and act like a fool. "O Death, where is thy sting?" This fear of holidays is downright Puritanical. Not suprising, considering our nation's origins, but forgive this poor papist if he declines to partake of moral indignation at human festivity.

For what it's worth, my costume's inspiration was my namesake Caomhghin of Glendalough.

144 posted on 11/04/2001 3:26:43 AM PST by Dumb_Ox
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To: Goblins
You don't even have the smallest inkling of who Jesus is, and yet you can read His mind, and judge His servants in His stead, good for you. Won't He be pleased when He returns.

I'm pretty sure Jesus taught his followers to love their neighbors as they love themselves... and to be peaceful witnesses... to be an example... to be humble.... to bring people to his Father in heaven via the route of the loving, peaceful, humble, charitable, caring, compassionate, and forgiving witness .

That is what Jesus taught. Those who actually follow those teachings have my profound respect and admiration.

Those who look at those teachings, and toss them over their shoulder in favor of scorn, abuse, self-righteousness, mockery, hatred, and venom... may CALL themselves Christians. But they do not follow the teachings of the Nazarene.

And as I stated earlier, they view any criticism of their behavior as a criticism of Christianity. They are so prideful and so bold as to consider themselves Christians, even though they wholely disregard the teachings.

145 posted on 11/04/2001 3:36:02 AM PST by OWK
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To: OWK
I'm pretty sure Jesus taught his followers to love their neighbors as they love themselves...

Indeed He did, He also taught us to hate ourselves.

and to be peaceful witnesses...

This statement is much more complex than you may know, seen as how you so glibbly threw it out there.

to be an example... True, but an example to whom of what?

to be humble.... True, but can you judge someones heart and mind something God claims for Himself and judge what to them is humility. In fact if someone showed you their humility would you even notice?

to bring people to his Father in heaven via the route of the loving, peaceful, humble, charitable, caring, compassionate, and forgiving witness .

Completely wrong, but then that is not surprising since you know neither my Father or my Brother.

146 posted on 11/04/2001 4:02:40 AM PST by Goblins
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To: Goblins
Yet another soldier in the army of the self-righteous.

Good luck to you.

147 posted on 11/04/2001 4:05:38 AM PST by OWK
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To: OWK
I thank you for your good wishes and return the same, but I ask you to question yourself on who is being self righteous, the person who speaks about his faith from the position of a believer or the one who speaks of somebody elses faith and how they should act according to it without believing in it themselves?
148 posted on 11/04/2001 4:33:36 AM PST by Goblins
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To: Goblins
Once again, I have nothing but respect for the practice of the faith as Jesus taught it.

And to be honest with you, it really isn't all that hard to understand what Jesus taught. He didn't speak in tongues. He didn't issue a secret decoder ring. He didn't use a secret hand-language for the "special people".

He spoke very plainly, and very precisely.

He instructed his followers to be loving, compassionate, peaceful, forgiving, caring and humble witnesses to the glory of his Father in heaven.

That's what he said.

If you think he actually SAID these things, but really MEANT something else... then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

149 posted on 11/04/2001 4:39:12 AM PST by OWK
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To: Bellflower
"Sir Francis Dashwood, I do hate Halloween and I hate "Santa Claus". Halloween is a time when people identify with and celebrate witches, warlocks, and every evil thing. This is often done under the guise of harmlessness. It is not harmless to lift up evil for any reason. It's like playing with fire. Also, the thing I most hate about "Santa Claus" is the fact that he is a lie that parents tell their childern. I don't think parents should lie to their children. Also all that "Santa Claus" stuff tends to take away from the real message of Christmas.

The "Freedom of Thought Foundation" (Annie Gaylord) in Madison are the leaders in this country when it comes to keeping God out of public places but they are complete hypocrits because they do not care if witches and gobblins and devils are in schools on Halloween and do not care that Madison's parks have pagoda likenesses in them. They obviously mainly hate the God of the Christians and Jews. They seem to hate him much more then not believe in his existance. And as some might say, I am not a sour puss or someone who is unhappy because I do not practice an evil holiday. I am merely a discerning Christian.

Ex atheist,

Kathleen"

It amazes me as an atheist how the radical left wing has planted the seeds of destruction in American society. Even a discerning atheist can see it while many conservatives just go along to get along.

Perhaps this is influenced by the example of some of the angry responses I have recieved about these questions I ask at the beginning of this thread. Merely asking or seeking an intelligent discusson on the topic, even from fellow FReepers, engenders a great deal of emotion and unwillingness to confront the issue.

When will men be men again?

150 posted on 11/04/2001 4:41:57 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
Your atheism bothers me a lot less than your sophomoric insistence that long standing social traditions must be justified to your own satisfaction.
151 posted on 11/04/2001 4:47:13 AM PST by Snuffington
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To: Gimlet
"Personally - I find most aspects of halloween disturbing. All Souls's Day can help, I find - as a restorative. It is partly the ghastly commercialism but mostly the truly pagan feeling display of all of it. What could be just a little fun for the kids is turned into a full scale ritual of kids on the make. Witchcraft is not fun."

Yes. You see the ritualization of the whole thing. This is something I have been waiting for someone to point out. Most perceptive of you...

152 posted on 11/04/2001 4:49:32 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood
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To: Snuffington
"Your atheism bothers me a lot less than your sophomoric insistence that long standing social traditions must be justified to your own satisfaction."

Then why did you come here?

153 posted on 11/04/2001 4:51:28 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood
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To: OWK
He spoke in parables actually. I shall not reply again to you here as frankly your ignorance of Christ is so overwhelming that I suggest you first seek Him out before ever opening your mouth about Him again.

Believe it or not I do love you.

154 posted on 11/04/2001 5:20:37 AM PST by Goblins
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To: Goblins
He spoke in parables actually.

Yes he did at times...

To simplify the message... not to complicate it so that only the self-righteous "annointed ones" could understand it.

You sure do think quite a bit of yourself.

155 posted on 11/04/2001 5:32:05 AM PST by OWK
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To: goodieD
Um..how about the religious significance it still has to pagans and wiccans today? Plenty of em still around, I've known many in my time, and Halloween is their high holy day.

So what? Tell me what the sense is in refusing to have a party on some day because some fruitcakes think that day is holy? They don't dictate my actions. I don't care what they think is holy.

If you decide that you will or won't do something on a particular day simply because somebody else considers it holy, then it is YOU is who is observing and respecting that day.

156 posted on 11/04/2001 8:21:42 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone
And goodness knows..it's SO important to party whenever you get a chance... geez you sound like a liberal... can't give up that ONE party for anything can we? I do what I think is right based on what God tells me is right or wrong..that's who runs my life, not the church of "let's party".
157 posted on 11/04/2001 8:48:57 AM PST by goodieD
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To: goodieD
My party years were in college, a long time ago. I don't drink and I don't attend parties unless I must.

You ignored the main point of my response, which is fine. I have no objection to how you wish to observe Halloween.

158 posted on 11/04/2001 9:00:58 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone
"You ignored the main point of my response, which is fine. I have no objection to how you wish to observe Halloween."

I never stated any objections. I just asked a few questions. Look at some of the rediculous emotional responses. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

159 posted on 11/04/2001 10:49:03 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
Then why did you come here?

To this thread? To challenge your agressive egotism, of course. No doubt you don't see your posts in this light. That's the problem.

160 posted on 11/04/2001 11:04:57 AM PST by Snuffington
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